So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

farmhouse w adjoining buildings and land, . i suspect that most of my work life will take place in this type of environment somewhere in the sticks just like now. I'll try to mix it up tho.

Sounds great. Some real efficiencies if there were a big worm bin + vortex brewer, etc on hand for others to share. Even if no MJ was in the building. Just a place where a guy could pick up a sack of castings and 5 gallons of ACT and head home to his grow. Like a little 7-11 for soil supplies. Pick up some nematodes, some barley seeds, comfrey, etc. Like a food co-op, where you buy at the bulk rate.

So back to the real world... aawwww man, do I gotta?

Today I am starting to read Teaming with Snowblower.

abe supercro said:

that puppy is kool all engineered and shipped for 416$. the homestead would benefit w this as starter vortex.

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Fuckers taking $420 or I ain't buying it!


I can justify pawning a lot of grow shit off as christmas presents,
but not a turd punch bowl with a pump.

However if that isn't the best New Years gift ever, what is?
Happy New Years Babydoll!!!!!!

something about the way a vortex brewer can polish turds, life affirming and hypnotic.
I'm getting one.

This is all hysterical! I hope everyone feels this thread is worthwhile and fun.

If you guys value the vortex, then you should have a worm bin. Of all the gadgets and gizmos you could have, the worm bin should be first. The worms are what makes the poop. Fresh stuff is much more bioactive. And if you make it yourself I guarantee it will be significantly better. Why? Because you can feed the worms all the micronutrients you like and it's all stored. EWC in a bag will never, ever be as good as what YOU can do in a 30 gallon smart pot, taking up a 24" x 24" footprint. All you do is throw in your scraps and water the pile. Cover with cardboard. They'll all stay inside.

Here's what you can add:

Alfalfa
Kelp Meal
Neem Meal
Karanja meal
Manure or compost
Comfrey
Yarrow
Horsetail Ferns
Stinging Nettles
Fish Meal
Fish Bone Meal
Flaxseed Meal
Rock Dusts
- Glacial Rock
- Bentonite
- Oyster Shell
- Basalt
Agsil 16
Crab Meal powder
Clay Powders **

** Montmorillonite and Pyrophyllite

gladstoned said:

I wanted to ask this question about teas and keep forgetting.
What's the difference between this:

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Brewer-Junior-10-Gallon/dp/B006GEUWN4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356040631&sr=8-2&keywords=vortex+brewer

And this:

http://www.amazon.com/Flo-N-Brew-Compost-Tea-Brewing-System/dp/B007ZU6GCO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_lg_3

Amazon's merchants are bitches about the shipping on the vortex brewer. They must spin it around the globe a few times so it works better or something. It's on ebay cheaper.

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Rrog said:

Glad, one's a bubbler, and the other is an actual vortex brewer. The vortex really slams the air into the swirling compost tea. The square sided bubbler can have dead spots and the potential for a little anaerobic pockets. You want the vortex.

Now let me tell you. I have been talking about this No-Till method of indoor farming. The man who pioneered this is Mr. Tim Wilson. He's a pioneer in the field of soil biotics. He's a microscopist. A microscope guy. He's consulted for books like Teaming With Microbes. He's extensively studied Aerated Compost Teas and has the technique and your recipe on his site microbeorganics.com He also has the best vortex brewer that he makes for much less than the vortex you referenced.

And he has a long history with old strains and this man definitely enjoys a proper bowl. He's one of the fascinating masters of this field of living soil and deserves at least a crack at our business.

Click to expand...

I have wanted to start understanding the deal with making teas and using them. You explained that excellent and I emailed Mr. Wilson for him to invoice my paypal and get one heading this way.
I have the blumats. 12 big carrots and 24 littles in a box with fittings and hose. I have almost everything needed to mix my TLO mixes as well. Due to the snow storm, the delivery didn't happen to
the shop in Esky yesterday. Hopefully Monday. They have a few items for me. I found prilled dolomite lime at a nursery in Escanaba as well. Organic rice @ GFS all getting Monday. I ordered granular Azomite and composted steer manure. I called around for the steer manure and anywhere that had it, says it's up for the winter. I bought a bag online for a few bucks, w $20 shipping. Fuck, eh. Anyway, the only thing I need to hunt down is organic mulch. Not walnut or cedar. Should be fairly easy. I am hoping menards will have access to a bag. All the other stuff I have. I'm about ready to do this.

The reason I am liking the True Living Organics method is the same reason many don't. The layers & spikes(and teas). I think the added effort to make spikes and do the layers pushes the plant to the extreme. That's
what I want. All organic, sure, but I want them at their fullest potential, (obviously we all do.) I think by doing a run or two I will have this down to a fine science and by having my soil and spikes premixed, AND the blumats doing the watering, I think what originally looks complicated will be bad to the fucking bone. I really, truly appreciate your help and direction in going organic. I have looked at it more than once and knew that I would need the time and money 1st just to track down all the bullshit I needed to do it the way I wanted. I will buy worm casting for a little bit. I will get this all going before I add a compost set-up. Too much of my basement isn't finished yet and I am constantly moving stuff around down there. I still have a half dozen walls and shit to build.

I think what you're doing and sharing with us all is fantastic. You're doing organic and TLO vs whatever is a small detail.

Curious, do you have a vegetable or flower garden outside?

If anyone's reading Teaming with Microbes, please bring up a topic or question as the discussion will really help the group.

Last year was our first full summer here. I dug up a nice siz garden, but the dirt is just fill, like sand. It sucks. Now I am dumping all of my used pots
right on top of the garden. Lots of dead soldiers out on the garden right now!!! This spring I will (I as in, not me) rent a big tiller and go over it several times
Maybe a truck load of some good soil as well. So my answer is yes I have a garden. Kinda.

I haven't started teaming with Microbes and it will take 4 weeks for my soil to activate after I mix it, and I plan on studying it during that period. I downloaded
several books to kindle that I want to have read this winter. I was gonna get an ipad for Christmas cuz I like belle's but that a convenience thing at the moment.
The Vortex brewer is needed more. I will skip the ipad and wait for bad ass camera to take better pics of my better mj. The kindle fire hd looks good to through a
little library on.

We just moved here but are planning an outdoor garden in the spring. Probably decent size.

That vortex will be huge when you're starting the outdoor garden as well.

My 30 gallon smart pots arrived today. Will start getting the worm bag(s) going. They will produce huge quantities of castings from my table scraps.

I wouldn't be too surprised if a greehouse found it's way on top of my garden this spring.
Lots of good produce stands all over up here. NO good mj stands though.

2 chapters left in TLO. seems simple...in oposite world! I got it, it's not terribly hard to grasp but it does seem like this delicate balance that could be fucked up by a myriad of things. Also the mention of PH levels and how every little thing could take it out of balance only to followed up with "you should never have to worry about ph" is kind of crazy town to me. this raises it and this lowers it and this buffers it and somehow with all this dleicate balancing and I am to believe that it will never be a real concern? We'll see. I'm going in skeptical and cautious: I got patients to worry about (and who won't give 2 shits if I blow it and will be all dickish if I come with some bullshit tiny buds with no sparkle) so it's going to be one container of the 8 plant run for while til I trust it and my skills with it. as for cheap, you guys should NOT be talking about this as a cheap alternative to hydro. it's going to be a wash or more expensive to do TLO by my calculations. one million bird shits hard to find rocks and 2-3 kinds of lime and oyster shells and shit C'mon! some day when I've done invest 1 million in worm farms and goats to shit up my yard it might be cost effective but for the first year minimum I can see this is going to be a time and money investment on par with dro if not more so than dro. teaming with microbes is next. kids going to grandparents house for the day/night so I am free to garden and read and garden and read. merry fucking xmas to me early. I'm into organics but not yet all in. P.S. I'm out of jackson-anyhone got a place within 50 miles that would be anywhere near one stop shopping for all this shit and crushed rock? Capital hydro was sweet here in prison city and knew of the rev and the mix but had to admit not having all of it-who the fuck could? Its a heft list!

I hear you loud and clear. I quit paying attention to what this shit has costed. It's a lot though, no doubt about that. Now to maintain everything, it will be much cheaper.
The book isn't put together that well at all. It's like shit is copied and pasted all over it. Much of it repeats, the majority didn't start to make sense till I was done reading it!!
lol. It's the Rev's first book though. He has always written magazine articles and a book is completely different animal. The info is good and I do like the concept very much.
The deal with the PH is mentioned, I believe, because as humans we have trouble going by his recipe's. He is trying to briefly explain what each does and if we start experimenting
with different amounts or go online and start getting various recipes, then it's a heads up of what raises and lowers the PH. I haven't ordered on of the ph readers that he recommends either.
Honestly I better not need it. That's why I am following his shit to the T. That better eliminate any and all issues.
Heads up cory, finding all the right stuff has been an absolute fucking nightmare. Finding it and affording it. I have as much in shipping and handling costs as I do shit, that gets frustrating when
you are looking at it financially. All that being said, I fully expect it to produce some just fantastic medicine.

if I could get everything for 5$ I'd still be pissed at the initial cost! leaves you with no room but to be a soil recycler for sure. least he put that in the book too. DAMN!

See, if these soil amendments were bought in bulk and sold out of the co-op, you'd only buy the little bit you need at bulk pricing. No more guano for me. Fish meal and fish bone meal, Alfalfa. These are all pretty cheap. What you're more saying (maybe?) is that the TLO recipe is expensive to start. Anyway, next run it's all paid for, regardless of the starting price.

The pH is steady if you're not disrupting things. The microbes establish the pH, largely based on the ratio of fungus / bacteria. Fungus are more acidic, and bacteria and more basic. The plant decides which fungus and bacteria (all local) to keep around, and the plant decides the ratio of fungus / bacteria. And so it goes. Just water and amend.

yeah, I know all that now and I am saying that initail start up is super expensive. it's something most of the organic folks like to leave out. it's all oh its poop its natural and its reusable and then once you're sold you get a list of on million additives that you need a spponful of but only comes in 5lb boxes. I want everyone thinking about reading this and starting the TLO to know INITIAL COST IS HIGH! I dare say higher than hydro. for sure higher than the soil/dro or soup feeding I was/am doing now. not directed at anyone, jsut saying if john doe walks in this thread and decides to go organic and TLO buyer beware yo're going to spend tons of $ and more time than I care to think about locating this shit.

Main ingredients of what I'm talking about, which isn't TLO:

1 part Sphagnum moss
1 part pumice
1 part Compost.

Minor Ingredients:

Neem Meal
Crab Meal
Kelp Meal
Fish Meal
Fish Bone Meal
Charcoal
Alfalfa

Other:
Rock Powders
Clay

This ain't a lot. TLO might be $, but what I listed ain't so bad.

If anyone wants recommendations on where to source the stuff I'm suggesting, lemme know.

You are both correct.
There is a long ass list of amendments in the TLO book. Now if someone has access to a good nursery, then they can just walk in and buy all the shit, no biggie.
I am very surprised how many sites I had to go to.

RRog is also stating that all that shit isn't needed to grow organically. And it isn't.

I'm getting it all though though.
The list is much longer out of the book cuz many amendments come in powder or granular form.
It's good to have both cuz the powder forms break down quickly and granular forms last much longer.
Most organic farming is basic, this style doesn't seem very basic.

Most organic farming is basic, yes indeed. Props to the Rev for putting his method to paper, but there's a simpler way.

Still, it's an ass ache to buy a 5 pound bag of stuff when you need a spoonful. we need a co-op.