Snake Oil, Horticultural Myths, Horticultural Urban Legends, and Persuaders

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
The Cannabiogen Destroyer (stupid name).....
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That's what sells seeds silly, stupid names. It's all about marketing, hawking, for the highest profits. You don't expect a seedbank to name their mutts with a title like "Oma's Secret Seeds" do you? :mrgreen:

FWIW, I seriously doubt if that is pure sativa. For your sake I hope I'm wrong. Based on the ad (Spanish) that says it should be vegged for at least 30 dias (days) and flowered for 8 - 12 semanas (weeks) there's no way it's pure sativa. Also, I've grown out a lot of sativas and none have much of a trichome field visible to the naked eye as opposed to what's shown in the ad. Of course everyone likes a nice photo shoot and it's da shugar dat sells da beans. Compared to an indica, the trichome field of sativas is not dense, the resin heads are smaller and the resin stalks are shorter. http://www.bio-tecnic.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=13_128&products_id=1060

Ahhhhh, found some Ingles stuff --> "The small and numerous bracteas are covered with a big amount of trichomes full of THC, carrying even 92 trichomes in some bracteas by mm2."
Ah well, here's hoping you don't destroy too many braincells with that first puff. bongsmilie

....and just a head's up, it doesn't get any more hermie prone than a Thai. If I had to rate the tendency to go hermie I'd put them in the following order - Thai, Vietnamese, Colombian, Mexican.

Good luck,
UB
 
cannawizard

cannawizard

Well-Known Member
untitled2.png
(baguio-G x davao x kalingan)

**i do love me some landrace sats :)

10402kalinga1terminada2yb8.jpg
(you dont get more stable than this PSLR/pheno, sexy)
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
That's what sells seeds silly, stupid names. It's all about marketing, hawking, for the highest profits. You don't expect a seedbank to name their mutts with a title like "Oma's Secret Seeds" do you? :mrgreen:

FWIW, I seriously doubt if that is pure sativa. For your sake I hope I'm wrong. Based on the ad (Spanish) that says it should be vegged for at least 30 dias (days) and flowered for 8 - 12 semanas (weeks) there's no way it's pure sativa. Also, I've grown out a lot of sativas and none have much of a trichome field visible to the naked eye as opposed to what's shown in the ad. Of course everyone likes a nice photo shoot and it's da shugar dat sells da beans. Compared to an indica, the trichome field of sativas is not dense, the resin heads are smaller and the resin stalks are shorter. http://www.bio-tecnic.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=13_128&products_id=1060

Ahhhhh, found some Ingles stuff --> "The small and numerous bracteas are covered with a big amount of trichomes full of THC, carrying even 92 trichomes in some bracteas by mm2."
Ah well, here's hoping you don't destroy too many braincells with that first puff. bongsmilie

....and just a head's up, it doesn't get any more hermie prone than a Thai. If I had to rate the tendency to go hermie I'd put them in the following order - Thai, Vietnamese, Colombian, Mexican.

Good luck,
UB
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Well I can say from experience that their listed flowering time is bullshit, it's more like 16 weeks. IIRC, it's a vietnamese x thai x mexi cross, no indica present. Growth pattern is PURE sativa, and it has the thinnest bladed leaves I've ever seen anywhere. The fan leaf blades are no more than 1/4" wide, super branchy, wispy buds, takes forever to initiate flowering response... I'm pretty sure it's a legit pure sativa, it's probably the mexi that shortens the flowering time somewhat but still nowhere near the listed 11-12 weeks.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
Well I can say from experience that their listed flowering time is bullshit, it's more like 16 weeks. IIRC, it's a vietnamese x thai x mexi cross, no indica present.
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This is exactly what I mean. It's all about trust and I don't trust this industry as far as I can spit.

Said to be Thai X (Mex. X Colombian). No mention of Vietnamese. If you know someone growing it that has a photo to upload, I'd love to see this plant's profile.

"This 100% Sativa strain is a cross of Meao Thai and an early and stable Mexico/Colombia."
http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Destroyer/Cannabiogen/

Also, anecdotal evidence that it doesn't stretch much which suggests indica genes. All of the sativas I've grown stretch to the moon. http://www.onlinepot.org/OGStrainGuide/Strainguide/Canna_Biogen/Destroyer/1384/index.html
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
This is exactly what I mean. The "official" listing said it is Thai X (Mex. X Colombian). No mention of Vietnamese. If you know someone growing it that has a photo to upload, I'd love to see this plant's profile.
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I'll see what I can do. If I do, it will be the first pic I've EVER posted online. No promises...

edit: and I was going by memory on the genetics. It appears to be a very stable cross, there was almost zero variation among the seeds germinated. They were literally identical in appearance, with differences in nutrient consumption being the only variable that I could see.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
View attachment 1865420

**i do love me some landrace sats :)
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Wolverine97 said:
I'll see what I can do. If I do, it will be the first pic I've EVER posted online. No promises...

edit: and I was going by memory on the genetics. It appears to be a very stable cross, there was almost zero variation among the seeds germinated. They were literally identical in appearance, with differences in nutrient consumption being the only variable that I could see.
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Don't compromise your personal rules to appease me. I'll live. :)

Glad it's stable!
 
eDude

eDude

Well-Known Member
Back to the myths..

eleanor's vf-11, Olivia's, superthrive, starter foods or foods for cuttings, all crap. lol especially SuperThrive.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I appreciate that but for some strange reason I can't remember whether there was 4% or 9% ammonical N in whatever you posted. :roll: Why can't I find the ingredients at the Canna website? I'm a little more discreet and sophisticated than to buy into a company's product that doesn't divulge an elemental guaranteed analysis. Dyna-Gro and other legitimate companies can do it, why don't Canna and the other oil companies?
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They have ingredient by ingredient contents on the bottle, I'll post pics of both the Veg and Flower formula labels tomorrow, picture posting doesn't work from the phone sadly.

I dunno why they don't show it online, maybe you should ask them? ;)
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
eDude said:
Back to the myths..

eleanor's vf-11, Olivia's, superthrive, starter foods or foods for cuttings, all crap. lol especially SuperThrive.
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Starter foods and foods for cuttings are only semi-bullshit. Cuttings and seedlings do need nutrients, the problem is that these foods when sold for that purpose are only really watered down standard nutrients.

But then again for a total noob they're the foolproof and easy option I suppose.

I'd never use them but you can see why some would.
 
D

DertsyBoy

Member
Just want to validate UB's facts with a few pictures. So you know--- I'm an old fart so this is nothing new to me. You will notice in one of the pics the lowest branch being held up by a 12 oz RedBull can, no lollipop here, just a big bud. These pics were taken just before the harvest and look at all the green leaves with some of the fans yellowing nicely.
In all cases all of these plants were grown in 10 -15 SS#4 with worm castings and fertilized only 3-4 times total, that's from veg thru flower. NO MJ specific nutes were used at all. I use only fert that compliments my water source and maintains my substrate PH. If you want a good read and really learn about growing plants of any kind check out Bill Argo's book on PH management in containers.
 

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doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
DertsyBoy said:
Just want to validate UB's facts with a few pictures. So you know--- I'm an old fart so this is nothing new to me. You will notice in one of the pics the lowest branch being held up by a 12 oz RedBull can, no lollipop here, just a big bud. These pics were taken just before the harvest and look at all the green leaves with some of the fans yellowing nicely.
In all cases all of these plants were grown in 10 -15 SS#4 with worm castings and fertilized only 3-4 times total, that's from veg thru flower. NO MJ specific nutes were used at all. I use only fert that compliments my water source and maintains my substrate PH. If you want a good read and really learn about growing plants of any kind check out Bill Argo's book on PH management in containers.
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Very nice! Welcome to RIU my friend!:weed:
 
eDude

eDude

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Starter foods and foods for cuttings are only semi-bullshit. Cuttings and seedlings do need nutrients, the problem is that these foods when sold for that purpose are only really watered down standard nutrients.

But then again for a total noob they're the foolproof and easy option I suppose.

I'd never use them but you can see why some would.
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Starter food,

Yes, I assume they work but it's such a rip off it's laughable. These plants are not that delicate. In fact, as I'm sure you know, it's pretty dam hard to kill them.. I just don't like the idea of buying more water.. I got that in abundance around the house. ;) Noob's should learn to measure plant foods and save some money. I think it's driven by fear.. I mean really, how many times have to heard of someone burning the shit out of the seedlings? Not many times and when you do.. I'm not sure a starter food would have saved them. ;)

Brings me to my little 'pet peeve'.. if you can't measure plant food then maybe growing plants isn't for you, or cooking, or chemistry, or explosives and so on..

It's a slippery slope.. What's next will be turn key systems, you just pour money in one end and out the other come weed.. No need to know nothing.. ;) Wait that's a dealer..
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
eDude said:
Starter food,

Yes, I assume they work but it's such a rip off it's laughable. These plants are not that delicate. In fact, as I'm sure you know, it's pretty dam hard to kill them.. I just don't like the idea of buying more water.. I got that in abundance around the house. ;) Noob's should learn to measure plant foods and save some money. I think it's driven by fear.. I mean really, how many times have to heard of someone burning the shit out of the seedlings? Not many times and when you do.. I'm not sure a starter food would have saved them. ;)

Brings me to my little 'pet peeve'.. if you can't measure plant food then maybe growing plants isn't for you, or cooking, or chemistry, or explosives and so on..

It's a slippery slope.. What's next will be turn key systems, you just pour money in one end and out the other come weed.. No need to know nothing.. ;) Wait that's a dealer..
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Dude, look around, the world is 95% dum-dums! These people need it as easy as possible ;)
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Starter foods and foods for cuttings are only semi-bullshit. Cuttings and seedlings do need nutrients, the problem is that these foods when sold for that purpose are only really watered down standard nutrients.

But then again for a total noob they're the foolproof and easy option I suppose.

I'd never use them but you can see why some would.
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I agree, but by the same token I've found that Clonex solution with MY tap water gets the pH exactly right for the Rockwool and I don't need to be mixing/watering down/pHing and a qt has lasted about 2 years.

Just lazy I guess.

Everything else I use comes in bags of 5-50 lbs and I mix that up myself, along with the soiless mix from scratch.

Wet
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
I agree, but by the same token I've found that Clonex solution with MY tap water gets the pH exactly right for the Rockwool and I don't need to be mixing/watering down/pHing and a qt has lasted about 2 years.

Just lazy I guess.

Everything else I use comes in bags of 5-50 lbs and I mix that up myself, along with the soiless mix from scratch.

Wet
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And again, it's uncanny, really. A day or so ago I was going to post almost the exact same thing, except I don't use rockwool.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
And again, it's uncanny, really. A day or so ago I was going to post almost the exact same thing, except I don't use rockwool.
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We are actually identical twins separated at birth.:o:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Like, 'A tale of two growers' LOL

Question though. If you don't use rockwool, what do you use? That Clonex solution drops my tap down to ~5.8 or so. Just right for the RW, but when I use jiffy pellets, it's K-L-N, which is much more alkaline and works better with the peat.

Wet
 
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