Seeds sprout but no growth?

Dr. Who said:

Kindgrow is right!

Soaking is NOT a recommended method by any top breeder! In fact, many are now not honoring ANY kind of guarantee if you soak!

Greenthumb and Matt Riot flat out tell you so on their sites, AND Greenthumb in notes/instructions he sends with the order too!

Here's why.
When you soak beans. The water can be of varying dissolved O2 content.
Low O2 content water makes for seeds drowning. (What yours did)
RO, distilled and any water left out to remover chlorine, etc. Will also be very low in dissolved O2!

The seeds may pop or even not! The seeds need that O2 to grow and at all stages. Beans must have it to actually start growth. That tap root needs it to continue growth or drown in poor water.

Even with the use of the paper towel method....I always add a few drops of H2O2 to that water I use to soak the towel with.

Many still do this method, some with shorter soak times but, Having almost perfect success with the PT method in 24 - 48 hrs....I won't use it for anything but Beet seeds now...

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Ah, with the explanation it makes much more sense. That's actually a great bit of info to know, thanks!

I likely will keep germinating the way I do but I may try a few drops of H202 the next batch.

For the record quite a few breeders (perhaps not "top breeders") still recommend the soak method, but I should agree that for an absolute beginner the results would likely be a higher germ rate.

bezalom said:

old seeds often when you put them in soil they kinda stop.

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I have noticed this two, after about 4 years they become difficult to start.

Both ways can/do work.

I like to soak them for up to 24 hours, or until they start cracking. I remove them as soon as the shell is cracked, and plant Pointed End Down, and only plant them deep enough to cover them, and to not let spraying disturb them.

For me about 1/8th inch. Just enough to cover the top so it doesn't dry out to fast, and keeps the seed moist.

I use Promix BX, in 32oz Uline plastic Deli Containers to start. I got 500 for $90 shipping incl. Love these big containers.

Promix is watered to about 20% of the top wet.

I place in 8-9 inch tall plastic totes that hold about 15 containers, and then cover with Saran Wrap.

I Spray the Side of the wrap that will be DOWN, so it sticks to the container., then sprat the top of the wrap for weight, and pull until tight.

I use a 1000w Hortilux for germ at 30 inches, and 75-78 degrees, and a slight breeze, and do what you can to increase humidity in the room.

These are a lot cheaper vs 16-24oz cups. Though I do wish they were colored.


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Thanks for all the help. Im thinking they may have some nastys on the outside of the seed. Most cracked and the root was just showing thats when things stopped. Maybe a guick dip in some H2o2 to kill whats on the outside of the seed coat?

Hashishh said:

Ah, with the explanation it makes much more sense. That's actually a great bit of info to know, thanks!

I likely will keep germinating the way I do but I may try a few drops of H202 the next batch.

For the record quite a few breeders (perhaps not "top breeders") still recommend the soak method, but I should agree that for an absolute beginner the results would likely be a higher germ rate.

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As far as seeds go mj is quite sterile in both its coat biology and commercial breeding supply process, h2o2 never needed as mother nature got this one no charge.

Ya that's my belief too but my first attempt was direct into pete perlite mix. With 1out of 6.
Guess I'll contact the seller.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i've started just using a heating mat and planting straight in the soil. put them one inch down, keep them warm, and they'll pop. the inch of soil helps them push the seed coat off, and they come up vigorous and ready to grow.
if you sprout them then plant them, its like transplant shock imo, you're taking them from basically a hydroponic medium and putting them in soil, changing their whole world.

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I put two germinated seeds into a rockwool and slightly pushed atiny bit of the very top of rockwool the rockwool above the seed together to create this effect...... and one of them popped a stem with no cotyledon....the other one is just stretching like bean stalk under my 12-18 watt T5. The joys of being a newbie....

Usually its either to deep. Medium is either to wet/dry. Seeds are crap, to Hot, To Cold. Soil is compacted, and the small seed is stuck, in the muck like a vacuum. Medium is very acidic?? If its just straight Peat/Vermiculite/Perlite ect, it needs a small amount of lime. Both Calcitic, and Dolomite.

Calcitic is best for PH Change, and the Dolomite supplies Magnesium, and is slower to initiate PH changes.
From what I kow it should be used at a 2/3 Calcitic to 1/3 Dolomite ratio, for best results. Even Jiffy 7 Pellets have some lime, and are 5.3. Straight Peat is under 5. Canadian Sphagnum is also the best type.

Id use 51 total LEVEL TBLSP LIME per 3.8 Cu/ft Compressed Sphagnum/Peat. 2/3rds of it being Calcitic, and 1/3 Dolomite. Promix BX/HP have Calcitic/Dolomitic, so I try and model my home made soilless Sphagnum based from that model as best as I can.

While Ive been growing a really, really long time, the strains I currently use, I often get 100% germ rate, or no less than 10, out of 12.
I had to trash a grow last Nov, and got 103, out of 107 seeds to come up. Partner ended up being unreliable. It was at his place, my equipment/seeds ect.

I soaked ALL of them, and then planted in 24oz cups/Before I found the 32oz Ulines.

I also particularly like to soak seeds that have a tough seeds covering. I had some M26/Early Bird from original 80s SSSC Stock that Vashon Seed and Mercantile has preserved, and they are really big seeds, and took 48 hours of soaking, before they started taking on water, and sinking. I also kept the water changed, and clean. You can also stir the water, and is enough to oxygenate it, if you do it a few times a day. I usually keep trying to push the seeds underwater with a straw every now, and then.
My probably Ill Logic says
Many seeds will also start cracking after 12 hours, and IMHO need to be gotten out THEN. As soon as theyre taking water, and splitting even a little, they get planted, and being in a cup/glass, I can visually see whats cracking, and whats not. IMHO better, and cant see any downside at all. It gives me visual/physical control of whats popping, and when its popping.
I don't like napkins/towel ect, as the small roots can get damaged if they've already attached to the material. And they can attach overnight. Not worth the risk on that. I would also be skeptical of soaking, and then transplanting into Rockwool Id put it straight into the RW, if I went that route. Rockwool is very unforgiving vs when you try and put a sprout in there. I don't like that idea. Straight in if I used RW.

I also make a really small hole in the moist Promix/Sphagnum ect, with a toothpick, and then put the pointed end of the seed down, use the small hole on the top of the seed to put the toothpick point into, and gently push the seed Only Enough to Cover it,,,,1//16th inch. I also SPRAY, NOT WATER. Fine Mist. Cover with Saran Wrap.

I also feel if theyre soaked first, and are viable, there is less chance for virus/pathogen sitting in the soil/medium for the extra time, though I know they've evolved to do their thing. I still do it.

Thousand ways to skin a cat ...... and pop a seed.

Soaking will work ok ... I just soak for a few hours then sow into soil ( container or solo ).
I use tap with a drop or two of Thrive alive red or a kelp solution . Then I plant in cup.


I restrict watering to misting ( base and seedling ) .... as not to drown them.

( I throw under a 5000k cfl to get the STARTED ) , wait for some true leaves to form then transplant into final. It works fine for regulars and autos. POOF ..... NEW PLANTS.


Plugs / Rooter : I soak in a ph solution ( 5.5 - 6.0 ) using Clonex liquid solution ( love that shit ) , adding 5 or 6 drops into a small cup . Let it sit for about an hour and shake out slightly , plant seed.
After I plant my seeds , I save liquid to a small spray bottle to MIST the new babies!



SOIL :

Soil is light aerated mix ( slightly misted to dampen ) then let nature do her thing. I ADD NOTHING TO SOIL. I will either use the spray from the above method or mix up a new batch at same ratio. Thrive Alive is another great mix. A lighter mix is recommended as you reduce the chance of burning her little ass up.



Alternative: I used to pop a plug or block INTO a solo with perlite only . I cut wrapper off of rock cube tho. And place with perlite about level with it. I hydrate it , squirting from water bottle ( mix ) .
Perlite gives this a more aerated start. TRY THIS. I think you will like it. Then tip cup out when ready to transplant. Either in soil container center , grow bag or even a DIY hempy ( perlite / vermiculite 3:1 mix ) .... I will post some pics on what I mean . I used a kids pail with a side drain filled with that perlite / vermiculite combo , but scooped out center so I can drop perlite solo “ plug “ right in .
Then it will still seek the bottom Rez portion of bucket , without missing a beat.



However on older seed stock ( year or so ) I scuff with a rolled piece of sandpaper before hydrating it. I even heard old timers used to crack them slightly with their teeth , but I ain’t doing that shit.

WHICH WAY IS THE BEST ?????

Who knows ....

I even popped them in a breeder bag ...... lol

Thanks again for all the help peeps. I will have to find some lime Jimihendrix1.

Peat is a 4.4 PH.

I just fill a pill bottle with a couple inches of water, drop in seeds, place in dark area 3-4 days later they will pop, remove with tweezers (or just dump it out on a napkin) and plant... If you must germinate this way is the easiest to me and I've never had it let me down personally.

Some seeds are just garbage. I received some free 'promo" seeds with an order and the seeds sprouted but all the plants were weak and lethargic. Some "promo".

jimihendrix1 said:

Peat is a 4.4 PH.

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Again that depends on the type of peat and also its processing...

Yep. It can even be as low as 3.

Dmannn said:

I have noticed this two, after about 4 years they become difficult to start.

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Weird, how do you store them? I store mine in the fridge and I've popped 10 year old seeds (paper towel method no soak) and grew pounds from them, never noticed what you have.

Jefferson1977 said:

Weird, how do you store them? I store mine in the fridge and I've popped 10 year old seeds (paper towel method no soak) and grew pounds from them, never noticed what you have.

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I do not keep them in the fridge just in zip locks in a cool/dark area. How are they stored in the fridge?

Dmannn said:

I do not keep them in the fridge just in zip locks in a cool/dark area. How are they stored in the fridge?

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Just in their original packaging or in a ziplock, in the fruit drawer for the last 12 years lol.

BarryBwana said:

I put two germinated seeds into a rockwool and slightly pushed atiny bit of the very top of rockwool the rockwool above the seed together to create this effect...... and one of them popped a stem with no cotyledon....the other one is just stretching like bean stalk under my 12-18 watt T5. The joys of being a newbie....

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Rockwool is fussy sometimes with seeds. Two things ive learnt, one noobie trick one pro trick.

Noobie trick:- Insert seed on its side seam up and down, leave the top flush with the top of the cube no need to cover. This is listed as the most reliable method of placing a seed in rock wool. You should find references to it on line on threads. No method is that easy but practice and it will be.

Pro trick:- Screw planting it just pop it on the surface of a wet cube with pointy end over the hole and watch it plant it self. The idea is the seed stays wet from wicking water off top of the cube and when the tap root pops out it grows straight down into the hole and your done.

I always find germinating in cubes a touch hit or miss but it is easy once you do a few/hundreds

Kingrow1 said:

Rockwool is fussy sometimes with seeds. Two things ive learnt, one noobie trick one pro trick.

Noobie trick:- Insert seed on its side seam up and down, leave the top flush with the top of the cube no need to cover. This is listed as the most reliable method of placing a seed in rock wool. You should find references to it on line on threads. No method is that easy but practice and it will be.

Pro trick:- Screw planting it just pop it on the surface of a wet cube with pointy end over the hole and watch it plant it self. The idea is the seed stays wet from wicking water off top of the cube and when the tap root pops out it grows straight down into the hole and your done.

I always find germinating in cubes a touch hit or miss but it is easy once you do a few/hundreds

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Thanks!!

One of the rockwool seedlings stretched a bit and I was planning on putting it into a soil/perlite mix. Would it be OK to bury the stem given the water retention differences between rw and soil/perlite mix?

Or should I just support it?