Sanders is the strongest candidate against Trump in 2020

hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I don't know anywhere in the country that doesn't have the exact same system of live wires across their entire region. It everyone in America that contributes to our electrical grid, we need to get it all underground, or whatever better idea is out there. We have been doing things in a very wasteful manner for way too long, and need to start figuring out how to live on our planet without ripping it apart and burning everything.

HashBucket said:
Dude works 20 hour days. You'd look tired too.
Ever see a time lapse of the way presidents age?
All of em.
Obama aged big time during his tenure.
So did the Bushes ... look at Kennedy ... dog years.
Click to expand...
Yeah I am not questioning that, I mean the way he was tripping over himself to agree with Putin. That (and his retweet of the racist pushed propaganda story that is used to get people to places like Stormfront) was were it was no longer possible that he did not know the Russians have been attacking our electorate.

Up until that point I could believe he might have been naive enough to just belive the Russian trolls and not have actually thought them to have been true. My dad believed all the same nonsense, so I know it is possible to be an American with no Russian connection and believe this stuff.

He has continued to invite the Russians to attack us, he is now culpable for not doing anything but invite them to continue to attack us.
HashBucket said:
Sorry, the facts don't support that.
All Obama did was put on the brakes ... and was reaching for the parking brake. His policies affected me and you negatively. Every day.
All the rules and regulations he imposed ...
Read up on the Roman Empire from about 500 forward. Same thing. The wishes of 'the people' didn't matter. They elected leaders, who seated bureaucrats, who made rules that couldn't be appealed. Modern day American Socialists do the same thing, and that squashes life for 'the people'.
Click to expand...
I can't get into all the @Rob Roy stuff atm, but after understanding of the Russians attacking us leads to some interesting conversations I think about what we think we knew.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Dude works 20 hour days. You'd look tired too.
Ever see a time lapse of the way presidents age?
All of em.
Obama aged big time during his tenure.
So did the Bushes ... look at Kennedy ... dog years.

Sorry, the facts don't support that.
All Obama did was put on the brakes ... and was reaching for the parking brake. His policies affected me and you negatively. Every day.
All the rules and regulations he imposed ...
Read up on the Roman Empire from about 500 forward. Same thing. The wishes of 'the people' didn't matter. They elected leaders, who seated bureaucrats, who made rules that couldn't be appealed. Modern day American Socialists do the same thing, and that squashes life for 'the people'.


It's a real mess here.
I grew up in Cal. I am 66 years old, and I grew up in the East Bay. A little town by the name of Richmond. I was born in Berkeley.
I chased hippy girls in the Haight in the 60's.
It was a beautiful city, and great place to be young.
Now ... it's not.
Dirty and dangerous and very expensive.

The situation with the fires ... yea. About twenty years ago the state gov't started really heavily regulating PG&E. They guaranteed a return to the shareholders. Whatever the 'cost' was, they just tacked a % on that for 'investor reimbursement'. So, money was no problem, unless it became a problem for that single mom in a one bedroom apartment to pay that $1000 per month electricity bill.
But, thats ok, because we'll just mandate that PG&E rebate to poor people, which takes more away from the "profit", which allows an increase in the rates ... see the circle jerk?
THEN, state gov't tells PG&E that they MUST install electric charging stations for electric cars. No charge to the user. Who pays for that? Where do those costs go? But, that's ok, because we just add on more to the rates, which drive up the costs to the poorest residents.
THEN the state tells PG&E that they can NOT clear land with dead timer on it It can't be used to build houses for people who need a place to live. It has to lay and rot, and get dry.
THEN PG&E applies for an increase in rates so they can upgrade their equipment (the grid is falling apart). Denied. Give that money to the poor people as rebates instead.

Then one day a big wind comes up (happens every October, not a man made event). A line goes down because the connector is over 20 years old and is brittle from age. Starts a fire that destroys hundreds of square miles, kills hundreds of people, and makes thousands homeless.

My wife and I were one of those homeless.

Everybody here is mad at PG&E, and its not entirely their fault. They are just trying to survive in The People's Republic of California, like everyone else.

If I wasn't as old as I am, and if I didn't have substantial reasons to stay ... I would be out of this hell as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
Republicans should have learned their lessons in California. The GOP reached its pinnacle in 1994 in CA when Pete Wilson won the governor's office by his full-throated endorsement of the "Save Our State" anti immigration measure, Prop 187 (which also passed 1994). Republicans in California have known decline ever since. Now, CA Republicans are out of power with no prospects of a come back for as far out as anybody can predict. Those complaints you listed about lack of facilities for people who are experiencing homelessness and degradation of the environment are entirely due to Republican actions. You may now thank millennial Democrats for coming in to power and beginning to clean up after you Boomer frat boys have had your parties. It's a shame that your generation have crapped the bed and left it up to your grand kids to clean up.

Most of the country is now where California was 25 years ago. Between now and 2030, expect even more political volatility and dynamic shifts in the control of state houses as well as in DC. After that and for as long as anybody can foresee, this country will be diverse, multicultural, socially progressive and your kind will be dealing with the indignities of a slow death, politically and physically.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Dude works 20 hour days. You'd look tired too.
Ever see a time lapse of the way presidents age?
All of em.
Obama aged big time during his tenure.
So did the Bushes ... look at Kennedy ... dog years.

Sorry, the facts don't support that.
All Obama did was put on the brakes ... and was reaching for the parking brake. His policies affected me and you negatively. Every day.
All the rules and regulations he imposed ...
Read up on the Roman Empire from about 500 forward. Same thing. The wishes of 'the people' didn't matter. They elected leaders, who seated bureaucrats, who made rules that couldn't be appealed. Modern day American Socialists do the same thing, and that squashes life for 'the people'.


It's a real mess here.
I grew up in Cal. I am 66 years old, and I grew up in the East Bay. A little town by the name of Richmond. I was born in Berkeley.
I chased hippy girls in the Haight in the 60's.
It was a beautiful city, and great place to be young.
Now ... it's not.
Dirty and dangerous and very expensive.

The situation with the fires ... yea. About twenty years ago the state gov't started really heavily regulating PG&E. They guaranteed a return to the shareholders. Whatever the 'cost' was, they just tacked a % on that for 'investor reimbursement'. So, money was no problem, unless it became a problem for that single mom in a one bedroom apartment to pay that $1000 per month electricity bill.
But, thats ok, because we'll just mandate that PG&E rebate to poor people, which takes more away from the "profit", which allows an increase in the rates ... see the circle jerk?
THEN, state gov't tells PG&E that they MUST install electric charging stations for electric cars. No charge to the user. Who pays for that? Where do those costs go? But, that's ok, because we just add on more to the rates, which drive up the costs to the poorest residents.
THEN the state tells PG&E that they can NOT clear land with dead timer on it It can't be used to build houses for people who need a place to live. It has to lay and rot, and get dry.
THEN PG&E applies for an increase in rates so they can upgrade their equipment (the grid is falling apart). Denied. Give that money to the poor people as rebates instead.

Then one day a big wind comes up (happens every October, not a man made event). A line goes down because the connector is over 20 years old and is brittle from age. Starts a fire that destroys hundreds of square miles, kills hundreds of people, and makes thousands homeless.

My wife and I were one of those homeless.

Everybody here is mad at PG&E, and its not entirely their fault. They are just trying to survive in The People's Republic of California, like everyone else.

If I wasn't as old as I am, and if I didn't have substantial reasons to stay ... I would be out of this hell as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
PGE will be taken over by the state. They are an example of why infrastructure should not be left to capitalists to maintain.
 
H

HashBucket

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
PGE will be taken over by the state.
Click to expand...
Agree.
Some may be pieced out to local (city, county) governments.
But mainly, yer right.
The City of Redding, and the City of Shasta Lake (my stomping grounds) have their own utilities companies. I used to live in Shasta Lake, and when the utility company there gets to screwing up too much, a bunch of us cranky citizens goes to a council meeting and raise hell - and things change. We don't hesitate to remind our local politicians when the next election is ...
I wouldn't object if local gov't takes the helm ... but I have no faith in our socialist state system.
As the more sane in the big cities escape to come to our country, and they bring their voting habits with them, I imagine this will change too.
The rot is spreading.

Fogdog said:
They are an example of why infrastructure should not be left to capitalists to maintain..
Click to expand...
Disagree.
They are an example of how socialist entitlement programs can screw up a good thing.
A capitalist recognizes and submits to the powers of depreciation. We PLAN on replacing equipment and upgrading. It is a constant thing in what I am doing now.
The company just switched over an entire room from HID to LED. The HID lights were only a year old. Cost? Over $20k. The 'new' equipment was 'functionally obsolete'.
If this company was being run by a socialist, it would be all about ''Use the old equipment and we can use that money for a day care center, a raise for the employees, and a vision and dental plan." And in three or four years the company wouldn't be able to compete any more and they'd go broke and then there would be no jobs for anyone.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Dude works 20 hour days. You'd look tired too.
Ever see a time lapse of the way presidents age?
All of em.
Obama aged big time during his tenure.
So did the Bushes ... look at Kennedy ... dog years.

Sorry, the facts don't support that.
All Obama did was put on the brakes ... and was reaching for the parking brake. His policies affected me and you negatively. Every day.
All the rules and regulations he imposed ...
Read up on the Roman Empire from about 500 forward. Same thing. The wishes of 'the people' didn't matter. They elected leaders, who seated bureaucrats, who made rules that couldn't be appealed. Modern day American Socialists do the same thing, and that squashes life for 'the people'.


It's a real mess here.
I grew up in Cal. I am 66 years old, and I grew up in the East Bay. A little town by the name of Richmond. I was born in Berkeley.
I chased hippy girls in the Haight in the 60's.
It was a beautiful city, and great place to be young.
Now ... it's not.
Dirty and dangerous and very expensive.

The situation with the fires ... yea. About twenty years ago the state gov't started really heavily regulating PG&E. They guaranteed a return to the shareholders. Whatever the 'cost' was, they just tacked a % on that for 'investor reimbursement'. So, money was no problem, unless it became a problem for that single mom in a one bedroom apartment to pay that $1000 per month electricity bill.
But, thats ok, because we'll just mandate that PG&E rebate to poor people, which takes more away from the "profit", which allows an increase in the rates ... see the circle jerk?
THEN, state gov't tells PG&E that they MUST install electric charging stations for electric cars. No charge to the user. Who pays for that? Where do those costs go? But, that's ok, because we just add on more to the rates, which drive up the costs to the poorest residents.
THEN the state tells PG&E that they can NOT clear land with dead timer on it It can't be used to build houses for people who need a place to live. It has to lay and rot, and get dry.
THEN PG&E applies for an increase in rates so they can upgrade their equipment (the grid is falling apart). Denied. Give that money to the poor people as rebates instead.

Then one day a big wind comes up (happens every October, not a man made event). A line goes down because the connector is over 20 years old and is brittle from age. Starts a fire that destroys hundreds of square miles, kills hundreds of people, and makes thousands homeless.

My wife and I were one of those homeless.

Everybody here is mad at PG&E, and its not entirely their fault. They are just trying to survive in The People's Republic of California, like everyone else.

If I wasn't as old as I am, and if I didn't have substantial reasons to stay ... I would be out of this hell as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
The economy was better under Obama by every metric.


Better jobs numbers, gdp growth, market growth, deficit was going down, healthcare costs flattened and we were respected by the world

Now wages are stagnant, the deficit doubled, healthcare is skyrocketing, foreign policy in shambles. Just horrible

And 20 hour days? Smoke less crack, ya uneducated racist white
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Agree.
Some may be pieced out to local (city, county) governments.
But mainly, yer right.
The City of Redding, and the City of Shasta Lake (my stomping grounds) have their own utilities companies. I used to live in Shasta Lake, and when the utility company there gets to screwing up too much, a bunch of us cranky citizens goes to a council meeting and raise hell - and things change. We don't hesitate to remind our local politicians when the next election is ...
I wouldn't object if local gov't takes the helm ... but I have no faith in our socialist state system.
As the more sane in the big cities escape to come to our country, and they bring their voting habits with them, I imagine this will change too.
The rot is spreading.


Disagree.
They are an example of how socialist entitlement programs can screw up a good thing.
A capitalist recognizes and submits to the powers of depreciation. We PLAN on replacing equipment and upgrading. It is a constant thing in what I am doing now.
The company just switched over an entire room from HID to LED. The HID lights were only a year old. Cost? Over $20k. The 'new' equipment was 'functionally obsolete'.
If this company was being run by a socialist, it would be all about ''Use the old equipment and we can use that money for a day care center, a raise for the employees, and a vision and dental plan." And in three or four years the company wouldn't be able to compete any more and they'd go broke and then there would be no jobs for anyone.
Click to expand...
You are confused by the difference between social investments and socialism. The education system, for example should be maintained as a public resource, not privately owned. Same goes with healthcare and roads. These are foundations of a healthy society and the public has a greater interest in investing in these areas than do corporations. There simply isn't enough profit in educating kids from median income families to interest wealthy corporations, so fuck them. They can find other places for their work that are also useful to society. Capitalists and entrepreneurs do best when products have high profit margins and the reward for innovation is high.

PGE is proof that large mundane infrastructure projects like California's power delivery system is best owned by government and not private companies. PGE failed to maintain its system in order to deliver maximum profits to shareholders. It's laughable that you defend PGE when it most clearly is the cause of its own problems. I lived in the Bay Area and know what it's like there. For example, the city of Santa Clara, where I lived for a while wisely invested in it's own power delivery system. Santa Clara had lower costs and never had brown-outs like they have in PGE's area.
 
H

HashBucket

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
The economy was better under Obama by every metric.

And 20 hour days? Smoke less crack, ya uneducated racist white
Click to expand...
Shouldn't you be in school?
It's mid day ... you cutting fifth period again?

Kids, eh?
Watta ya gonna do?
Ya buy em books, send em to school ... watta they do?
Eat paste ...
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You are confused by the difference between social investments and socialism. The education system, for example should be maintained as a public resource, not privately owned. Same goes with healthcare and roads. These are foundations of a healthy society and the public has a greater interest in investing in these areas than do corporations. There simply isn't enough profit in educating kids from median income families to interest wealthy corporations, so fuck them. They can find other places for their work that are also useful to society. Capitalists and entrepreneurs do best when products have high profit margins and the reward for innovation is high.

PGE is proof that large mundane infrastructure projects like California's power delivery system is best owned by government and not private companies. PGE failed to maintain its system in order to deliver maximum profits to shareholders. It's laughable that you defend PGE when it most clearly is the cause of its own problems. I lived in the Bay Area and know what it's like there. For example, the city of Santa Clara, where I lived for a while wisely invested in it's own power delivery system. Santa Clara had lower costs and never had brown-outs like they have in PGE's area.
Click to expand...
dont bother trying to teach this uneducated, uneducable racist white trash

Obama forced Americans to buy health insurance from private, for profit, capitalist insurance companies and he thought it was socialism

He might in fact be retarded
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Just be quiet and listen sonny.
The adults are talking.
You might just learn something.
Click to expand...
Nope

You are a lying sack of shit. I’ve already called you out on it and you have no rebuttal, because you know you’re a liar

I think you might be mentally retarded too but I’ll reserve judgment on that for now, racist white boomer
 
H

HashBucket

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
PGE is proof that large mundane infrastructure projects like California's power delivery system is best owned by government and not private companies.
Click to expand...
Yea, maybe.
California is doing SUCH a great job with our roads, highways and bridges. And, our education systems ... top notch in the nation.
Right down the line, just a great job.
Law enforcement, courts, water management ... great job.

dos/attitudes/sarcasm switch off
 
M

mooray

Well-Known Member
Obama wasn't actually that great, economically speaking. In regard to the country itself, there are essentially two economies; the fake one and the real one. The fake one is everything that's most apparent; government services up and running, no shutdowns, etc. The real one is the bottom line, what's sustainable, whether or not we're cash positive, whether or not we're able to save, and of course how much we owe.

Our real economy has been going to shit for decades and the problem is so large now that it's nearly unfixable just because of the time it would take relative to presidential term limits. Clinton just started changing the trend in eight years, so you'd really need like a half dozen of like-minded two-term presidents to work on it, which is incredibly unlikely to happen because there's always some Trump asshole that just wants to wave something shiny in front of the idiots while he lines his pockets. There'd always be some big fear going on where we need to dump money into this or that, pretty much anything that isn't what it should be.

California problems, Arkansas problems, nationwide problems, are all exactly reflective of ourselves. The job requires a surgeon, but these people aren't surgeons. They're average Joe's off the street that the masses think would make good surgeons. They're wrong. You want to fix problems? Hire experts actually trained in...effing something, because this "fog the mirror" shit isn't working.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Yea, maybe.
California is doing SUCH a great job with our roads, highways and bridges. And, our education systems ... top notch in the nation.
Right down the line, just a great job.
Law enforcement, courts, water management ... great job.

dos/attitudes/sarcasm switch off
Click to expand...
not "maybe"

Every infrastructure issue you listed was created by Republican initiatives and Republican administrations. It all started with Prop 13 that destroyed California's schools. Cut taxes without mindfully cutting costs. Reagan did it. Trump does the same. The definition of "Republican" is somebody who wants to cut programs that other people depend on.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Yea, maybe.
California is doing SUCH a great job with our roads, highways and bridges. And, our education systems ... top notch in the nation.
Right down the line, just a great job.
Law enforcement, courts, water management ... great job.

dos/attitudes/sarcasm switch off
Click to expand...
Then move to a republican state like West Virginia and tell us how the roads are there, ya racist white boomer
 
M

mooray

Well-Known Member
I've lived in Northern California my whole life and for as long as I can remember, we've been in a drought and nearly every summer you hear about cities implementing this and that water ban. Then here comes Jerry Brown with his big red cape and he tells us that we need two giant tunnels to send a bunch of water to SoCal and of course some big farms in the desert so private businesses can use all the water they want with their thousand acre ranches of citrus and nuts so they can make a killing selling them to other states and countries. Well that's neat. Thanks Jerry.

Have you ever noticed how the best things aren't mainstream? Mainstream things tend to be okay, but the best stuff is the little known thing over there in the corner. Republicans and democrats are as mainstream as you can possibly get and there's absolutely nothing good about either of them, though republicans are clearly and measurably worse right now, but dems like Jerry Brown are lying greedy pieces of shit too.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
mooray said:
I've lived in Northern California my whole life and for as long as I can remember, we've been in a drought and nearly every summer you hear about cities implementing this and that water ban. Then here comes Jerry Brown with his big red cape and he tells us that we need two giant tunnels to send a bunch of water to SoCal and of course some big farms in the desert so private businesses can use all the water they want with their thousand acre ranches of citrus and nuts so they can make a killing selling them to other states and countries. Well that's neat. Thanks Jerry.

Have you ever noticed how the best things aren't mainstream? Mainstream things tend to be okay, but the best stuff is the little known thing over there in the corner. Republicans and democrats are as mainstream as you can possibly get and there's absolutely nothing good about either of them, though republicans are clearly and measurably worse right now, but dems like Jerry Brown are lying greedy pieces of shit too.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen this act many times before

What was your last username?
 
M

mooray

Well-Known Member
I can see it's futile from your reply and you wouldn't believe me, but I simply stand by what I think is right and clubs can pound sand. Trump is clearly the worst president in US history, but I focus on topics and if he does something right, I'll say it. Like I think the "right to try" is a nice thing to do, even if it does help out his big pharma bros.
 
H

HashBucket

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It all started with Prop 13 that destroyed California's schools. Cut taxes without mindfully cutting costs. Reagan did it.
Click to expand...
You got THAT shit right.
Hit right on the nose.

Prop 13 is one of the worst laws ever passed. But, bad laws are often a result of bad practices.

BEFORE prop 13, the County Commissioners would let the tax collector know how much money they needed. The Tax Collector would compute how much value he needed and communicate that to the Assessors Office. The Assessors Office would apply tables to real property 'values' based on the needs of the government, and send the amounts to the Tax Collector for collections. People with paid off houses were losing them to tax bills. The People revolted.

Why is it a bad law?
Lets look at two situations. Young couple buys a two bedroom house for $200k. Their tax base is tied to the original purchase price and they pay about 1% or $2k per year in taxes. In five years they've filled it up with kids and need a bigger place. Inflation and other factors means they sell their home for $250k five years later, and buy a $400k three bedroom, two bath. Now their taxes are $4k per year. Their taxes have doubled in five years.
The other situation is Chevron Corp, running a processing facility in Richmond, California. It was built in 1976 and has a prop 13 protected tax base of $400 million. But, the assessed value never goes up. They paying taxes as though they've owned it for 40 years, but have they? If their stocks turn over 80% every six months .. hasn't it been sold? Shouldn't it be reassessed? Prop 13 says it can't be.
So, the young couple are paying a MUCH higher tax rate than Chevron.

I sorely mistrust government ... no matter who's in power.
 
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