MidnightSun72
Well-Known Member
Ok I'll do it.
Samsung H series strips, Arrow seems to be blowing them out! what a deal!
- Thread starter haze010
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ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
pm me your PayPal or whatever
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Personally, I trust Teknik due to personal experience. I bought some gear from cutter waaaay back, around the same time as Teknik made it on to RIU. I had word from Mark/cutter that my PC reds was 2.89ppf per watt. I posted about them here on the forum and Teknik got in touch; he told me it was his diodes and that they were actually a rather meager 2.0 ppf/w. He did not need to do that in anyway, gained nothing by downspecing his diodes. At the time I didn't know what to make from Teknik, he came onto the forum somewhat head strong and at times abrasive but the way he behaved to me is the opposite of a liar. Also he always took a stand against people I know where talking bullshit. I trust him and his testing due to the simple fact that he prefers the truth about his gear, even if it makes it look worse
Sinfor, I don't really know what your link is supposed to prove: he basicly says his buddies are made on top of an already existing design, that he added the lenses and the chips. I've never heard or seen him describe it as anything else and I don't know where these lies are. Why do you say he's lying? Is there something I've missed? If it's because you don't like him then fair enough, he's an acquired taste I guess but i think it's a somewhat douchey move to accuse someone to be a lier in a forum where he cannot defend himself just based on you not liking him. But if there's something you'd like to add I'd happily listen.
As for the Buddies themselves: to me they are somewhat of niche product and the grow I build for is really not in that niche. Prefer my watts to go to something that gives more light per watt and and directs the light downwards, not in 180°. To me they seem like something that would work nicely in a tent but I'm not sure I'd like to stick them to the reflective walls, and the whole intracannopy thing seems like a hassle on the scale we grow. I got a bunch of them in white and PC red, the whites will go in my wife's light box for product photography, perfect spectrum with neutral white/high cri. Not sure what to make of the reds, I don't like the amount of space they take up on a light fixture in comparison to their wattage: it means I don't have space for other white light which means running the main diodes harder etc. But no matter my feeling about them I don't think he lies about them
Sinfor, I don't really know what your link is supposed to prove: he basicly says his buddies are made on top of an already existing design, that he added the lenses and the chips. I've never heard or seen him describe it as anything else and I don't know where these lies are. Why do you say he's lying? Is there something I've missed? If it's because you don't like him then fair enough, he's an acquired taste I guess but i think it's a somewhat douchey move to accuse someone to be a lier in a forum where he cannot defend himself just based on you not liking him. But if there's something you'd like to add I'd happily listen.
As for the Buddies themselves: to me they are somewhat of niche product and the grow I build for is really not in that niche. Prefer my watts to go to something that gives more light per watt and and directs the light downwards, not in 180°. To me they seem like something that would work nicely in a tent but I'm not sure I'd like to stick them to the reflective walls, and the whole intracannopy thing seems like a hassle on the scale we grow. I got a bunch of them in white and PC red, the whites will go in my wife's light box for product photography, perfect spectrum with neutral white/high cri. Not sure what to make of the reds, I don't like the amount of space they take up on a light fixture in comparison to their wattage: it means I don't have space for other white light which means running the main diodes harder etc. But no matter my feeling about them I don't think he lies about them
welight
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall the number was just PPF not PPF/W but it was a while ago and was likely at the 45ma base spec, not the 150ma max. My last GONI test from Teknik had a PC RED mixed with white at 2.1umol/j but it was at 44 watts so quite high. I think the PC red is in no way comparable to something like CREE XPG-3 DEEP RED, its key feature is the long tail into deep red/far red, normally 80% is at 680nm, so really a broad spectrum red.
I dont recall on the buddies whether he went with PC red or straight deep red, maybe some of both
cheers
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
Teknik isn't here to defend himself, but as a distributor of these products and someone who works with Teknik on various horticultural projects, I can address most of these claims.
The link you provided explains much of the background of Buddies, but there's a bit more to it. Here is a quote from the link, from the horse's mouth so to speak.
Teknik travelled to China with @Prawn Connery a couple of years ago to do some groundwork on future projects. Prawn speaks the language and lived in the region for something like 15 years, so he know's his way around China better than most "white boys". This is background you won't get from reading the forums but it emphasizes that there is always more to a story than you may realise.Teknik said:
Buddies housings were initially developed for outdoor advertsing. That's what makes them so robust. There was no point in reinventing the wheel and it is no secret that Buddies are manufactured in China based on an existing concept.
That's where the similarities end. A rebranded plastic housing is one thing but it's what's inside that counts. And this is where none of the Chinese manufacturers you link to will compete with what we sell. In fact, I for one would welcome anyone on these boards trying to procure any of the following for a better price. If you can, we'll buy them!
Each of these products has customised LEDs and PCBs inside. Perhaps if I explain how they are made, you will realise that – like the China story – there is more than meets the eye.
This is the 660nm Buddies string. Inside each housing is a custom 2V PCB with a high efficiency 3535 660nm monochomatic LED. How high is the efficiency? About 2% less than the top "G" bin Cree XP-G3 (and you try buying "G" bins from Cree – the yield is so low that thay are almost impossible to buy in large numbers).
So let's try almost 4 umol/j – which we all know is close to the highest efficiency available from any manufacurer of any LED.
Here is the Cree "G" bin – 4.01 umol/j. If anyone doubts the legitimacy of LED Teknik's testing facility (more of which I can post below), this is exactly the same efficiency that Cree claims of their 3535 "G" bin 660nm LED.
Here is the chip that is used in the 660nm Buddies – 3.94 umol/j at the same current (350mA).
Now, who would like to be the first person to try to buy these in China? Again, if you can find the same rugged, water-proof housings with the same 180-degree diffusers and 3.94 umol/j LEDs in the same 24V format (2V x 8 LEDs) then please let me know – I will buy them off you!
I will be here waiting. In the mean time, let's look at the 730m Buddies – they are one of my favourite.
What LEDs do you think are in these? What if I told you that the LEDs in the 730nm Buddies were almost exactly the same as Cree's XP-E2 series? Let's have a look.
Cree XP-E2
LED Teknik 730nm LED
I think you guys are now getting the picture that these are no common plastic-housing LEDs that anyone can buy in China. A lot more work has gone into these than most people give LED Teknik credit for. Fortunately I am one of those who has been given an insight into his work, so I am happy to buy his products and retail them without hesitation. We (Grow Lights Australia) stand behind what we sell as much as we stand behind LED Teknik's products.
Would anyone like to know about the 4000K CRI90 White and PC Red Buddies while I'm here?
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MidnightSun72
Well-Known Member
Honestly I was under the impression the buddies had WAY lower efficacy.
in this thread here Peter says the buddies have 2.0umol/J and teknik did not correct him. That's a huge difference to the a 3.9mol/J light.
What diode is the 3535 PC red getting 3.9imol? 351H Samsung red?
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
OK then, let's look at the White and PC Red Buddies. But before I go any futher, anyone who doubts the accuracy of LED Teknik's $80,000 Danish Goniometer should read this first: https://www.visosystems.com/products/labspion-uv-vis-goniometer/
Compare the above goniometer to any of the cheap spheres being sold and used in China and you will soon come to the realisation that there really is no comparison. Someone may point out that LED Teknik could always fudge his own figures, but he has always said he welcomes any independent testing to verify his claims. I can tell you from experience that we are a lot harder on ourselves in actual testing than we could be. The main reason is because we want to replicate real-life usage. The other reason is because lying about the output of individual LEDs is lying to ourselves, as we are testing primarily to find which LEDs are best so that we can use them in our products. You would not believe the amont of testing we did for our High Light 420 boards!
Incidentally, the 660nm and 730nm monos I posted above are the same 3535 LEDs we use in the High Light 420 boards that have posted over 3 umol/j.
These LED strings use custom PCBs as there are 8x 3V dies on each chip for 24V total. The 4000K CRI95 White and PC Red use the same layout but different dies and phosphors. The white Buddies use the same Sanan chips as Cree and are almost identical to Cree's own 5050 8-die LED package.
Again, if you think you can buy these in China from Alibaba, please send us your supplier! Actually, don't. Because if you are lucky enough to find a custom LED packaging company that can replicate these, then the next stage of doing business in China is usually discovering that the high quality "samples" they sent you will not be the same as the actual production line LEDs you receive. In pretty much all cases they will swap out your nice LEDs for something cheaper to improve their profit margins at your expense. However if you have a trusted supplier who you visit regularly and whose products you test to ensure there are no issues with quality control, then I would definitely be interested. I'm sure LED Teknik would be interested too.
Compare the above goniometer to any of the cheap spheres being sold and used in China and you will soon come to the realisation that there really is no comparison. Someone may point out that LED Teknik could always fudge his own figures, but he has always said he welcomes any independent testing to verify his claims. I can tell you from experience that we are a lot harder on ourselves in actual testing than we could be. The main reason is because we want to replicate real-life usage. The other reason is because lying about the output of individual LEDs is lying to ourselves, as we are testing primarily to find which LEDs are best so that we can use them in our products. You would not believe the amont of testing we did for our High Light 420 boards!
Incidentally, the 660nm and 730nm monos I posted above are the same 3535 LEDs we use in the High Light 420 boards that have posted over 3 umol/j.
These LED strings use custom PCBs as there are 8x 3V dies on each chip for 24V total. The 4000K CRI95 White and PC Red use the same layout but different dies and phosphors. The white Buddies use the same Sanan chips as Cree and are almost identical to Cree's own 5050 8-die LED package.
Again, if you think you can buy these in China from Alibaba, please send us your supplier! Actually, don't. Because if you are lucky enough to find a custom LED packaging company that can replicate these, then the next stage of doing business in China is usually discovering that the high quality "samples" they sent you will not be the same as the actual production line LEDs you receive. In pretty much all cases they will swap out your nice LEDs for something cheaper to improve their profit margins at your expense. However if you have a trusted supplier who you visit regularly and whose products you test to ensure there are no issues with quality control, then I would definitely be interested. I'm sure LED Teknik would be interested too.
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
You're confusing the 660nm monos with the PC Red, which are lower efficiency but have a much broader red spectrum as @welight explained above.
The PC Red doesn't use Samsung LEDs, it uses Sanan.
I also need to point out the obvious that by the time the LED light passes through the diffuser, up to 7% or more of the light is lost through the lens. This will happen to any LED that is mounted in a housing or behind a plastic screen.
<edit>
I do want to add that the main reason I am posting all this info up is because LED Teknik is not here to do it himself. Also, we carry his products so I think it's important to point out the facts from the fiction.
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Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
We're starting to sell a lot more of these since growers discovered they work. I'm not sure how you've tried to use them, but as a cheap and flexible source of sidelighting they do just what they advertise by turing larf into trimmable bud. They don't grow donkey dicks, that's not their airm, but they do fill in light below the main canopy.
When you mix the 4K White with PC Red 1:1 you end up with this spectrum, which is similar to our High Light 420 spectrum but without the UV. You can see how nicely the PC Reds fill in the deep and far red regions.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The grow I build for is in an medium sized open space, so sidelighting /intracannopy is not very feasible. But I might get some on use for them as it looks like a small tent grow at home.is in the works
J232
Well-Known Member
Tested a driver, without the dimmer hooked up my 150w lg ones put out 44.4 volts and a max of 3.84 amps, 1.44 on the low. They are rated 48v 3.2 amp. So expect a bit more juice then advertised maybe?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
It seems to be the norm. Since drivers need to hit spec as per datasheet it seems like most mfers give a little extra to at least be over.
But if your driver is measuring 44V isnt it a bit shy of spec?
J232
Well-Known Member
Yeah not sure about the dimmer, the pots in the driver does not change voltage on the output so I assumed with a dimmer switch it might. Deltas are under spec in my tests.
ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
fwiw those Delta 185W-WAAA drivers are pulling 275W from the wall if I max them out!
I have to figure out where the volt meter is but will measure it later. datasheet says the VO goes to 27 but its either dumping more voltage or current to hit that #. will never run that hard but nice to know i can hit 200 with plenty of overhead.
J232
Well-Known Member
I can only get 148 from the wall on my delta 150s, I’m going to recheck them now though and make sure the pots were maxed. I haven’t checked them since my side light build, which btw the plants fucked all my f strips, expected the other way around haha.
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ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
oh no! i forget, did u add plexiglass shields in front of them? or were u running them bare?
J232
Well-Known Member
Na I had planned on screen, got lazy. They still work fine but can see hot spots from the leaf tips transpiring, water damage, so I scrapped any with marks on them. I don’t think side lights were worth it, I ran them well over a month. Was still cool though. If I didn’t build another light (needed couple strips) I prob would of never noticed until the run was over.
J232
Well-Known Member
Not on sale but finally back in stock and ready to be watched. Delta drivers.
Saw some of these drivers have dropped in price again, hopefully only a matter of time before some more viable voltage options drop as well. Some 12v and 36v drivers just under $20 right now is all I see. I did see some 48v drivers for just under $20 as well the other day, but ill try to keep an eye out and post if I see anything.
ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
24V 320W for $42
this is pretty sweet. these are the WAAA ones with adjustable voltage iirc they will go up to 27V so will work for Vestas and V strips and some of the other cheap strips that run at 25+V.