Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

I've been aware of this thread since you started it but never had a proper read. I have to say the info here is outstanding!

I have enough Canna Vega + Flores to last me about 4 months. After that I'm definitely going to be trying your recipe. Only concern I have is that I'll have stockpiles of nutes that'll last me years laying about!

Thanks for the effort. Definitely appreciated.

loftygoals said:

I've been aware of this thread since you started it but never had a proper read. I have to say the info here is outstanding!

I have enough Canna Vega + Flores to last me about 4 months. After that I'm definitely going to be trying your recipe. Only concern I have is that I'll have stockpiles of nutes that'll last me years laying about!

Thanks for the effort. Definitely appreciated.

Click to expand...

If you don't want to have 50 lb bags of fertilizer sitting around for years, then buy 5 lb bags or something smaller.

MisterBlah said:

If you don't want to have 50 lb bags of fertilizer sitting around for years, then buy 5 lb bags or something smaller.

Click to expand...

Hahaha, I wouldn't even have considered 50lb bags anyway! Those would last me a lifetime in my 4000w grow room.

When it comes to the right time to buy I'll try to calculate my requirements for 2 years and buy based off that.

Buying random sacks of fertilisers without having a plan to mix them up would be insanity

MisterBlah said:

If you don't want to have 50 lb bags of fertilizer sitting around for years, then buy 5 lb bags or something smaller.

Click to expand...

Having the 50lb bags around for years has actually worked out pretty well for me, lol

Very talented MisterBlah.. Thank you... I guess this is the next step. Are you going to be posting any video's on some of your techniques on your website? What typical quantity of concentrate do you shoot for? I have 5 gallon and 1 gallon bottles laying around. Probably more accurate to blend larger batches. Would it be more effective to mix 50 gallons of say your canna replication or stick to the smaller more manageble bottle sizes. I need to get an ro machine and was hoping one of you folks has a suggestion for one that is reasonable you know not to cheap not to expensive that you like.

Ionic....

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
GROW %W/V ppm w/s
HARD WATER
Nitrate-Nitrogen 1.84 184
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.03 3
Total Nitrogen 2.0 187
Phosphorus 0.31 31
Potassium 2.40 240
Calcium 0.50 50
Magnesium 0.36 36
Sulphur 0.10 10
Iron 0.03 3.0
Manganese 0.01 0.9
Boron 0.003 0.3
Zinc 0.003 0.3
Copper 0.002 0.2
Molybdenum 0.0010 0.01
Cobalt 0.0005 0.05
Nickel 0.0005 0.05

EC at 1:100 1.9 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1593 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.28

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
BLOOM %W/V ppm w/s
HARD WATER
Nitrate-Nitrogen 1.96 196
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.03 3
Total Nitrogen 2.0 199
Phosphorus 0.62 62
Potassium 3.25 325
Calcium 0.45 45
Magnesium 0.4 40
Sulphur 0.10 10
Iron 0.03 2.5
Manganese 0.01 0.9
Boron 0.002 0.2
Zinc 0.002 0.2
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.0005 0.05
Cobalt 0.0005 0.05
Nickel 0.0005 0.05

EC at 1:100 2.0 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1770 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.63


IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
GROW %W/V ppm w/s

Nitrate-Nitrogen 2.4 239
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.2 22
Total Nitrogen 2.6 261
Phosphorus 0.4 40
Potassium 3.302 330
Calcium 1.3 130
Magnesium 0.32 32
Sulphate 0.40 40
Iron 0.039 3.9
Manganese 0.011 1.1
Boron 0.003 0.26
Zinc 0.003 0.26
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.00065 0.065
Cobalt 0.00065 0.065
Nickel 0.00065 0.065

EC at 1:100 2.2 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1992 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 8.5 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.4

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
BLOOM %W/V ppm w/s

Nitrate-Nitrogen 2.3 227
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.1 9
Total Nitrogen 2.4 236
Phosphorus 0.8 81
Potassium 3.835 384
Calcium 1.3 130
Magnesium 0.32 32
Sulphate 0.40 40
Iron 0.039 3.9
Manganese 0.011 1.1
Boron 0.003 0.26
Zinc 0.003 0.26
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.00065 0.065
Cobalt 0.00065 0.065
Nickel 0.00065 0.065

EC at 1:100 2.3 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 2028 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.7

So canna coco part a is essentially calmag?!?!

Interesting!

pinner420 said:

Very talented MisterBlah.. Thank you... I guess this is the next step. Are you going to be posting any video's on some of your techniques on your website? What typical quantity of concentrate do you shoot for? I have 5 gallon and 1 gallon bottles laying around. Probably more accurate to blend larger batches. Would it be more effective to mix 50 gallons of say your canna replication or stick to the smaller more manageble bottle sizes. I need to get an ro machine and was hoping one of you folks has a suggestion for one that is reasonable you know not to cheap not to expensive that you like.

Click to expand...

If you're just using it for this then you don't need much volume. The cheapest 4 stage filter off eBay would be perfect.

If you have other plans for your RO water such as using it to water all your plants then you'll need something better.

outlier said:

So canna coco part a is essentially calmag?!?!

Interesting!

Click to expand...

I've been screaming this (well the opposite) for like 4 years now. Did someone finally hear me? Cal-mag+ overlaps with so many other hydro nutes that you could use cal-mag+ itself as part A of a base nute. Imo, it's the dumbest product on the whole weed market.

pinner420 said:

Ionic....

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
GROW %W/V ppm w/s
HARD WATER
Nitrate-Nitrogen 1.84 184
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.03 3
Total Nitrogen 2.0 187
Phosphorus 0.31 31
Potassium 2.40 240
Calcium 0.50 50
Magnesium 0.36 36
Sulphur 0.10 10
Iron 0.03 3.0
Manganese 0.01 0.9
Boron 0.003 0.3
Zinc 0.003 0.3
Copper 0.002 0.2
Molybdenum 0.0010 0.01
Cobalt 0.0005 0.05
Nickel 0.0005 0.05

EC at 1:100 1.9 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1593 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.28

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
BLOOM %W/V ppm w/s
HARD WATER
Nitrate-Nitrogen 1.96 196
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.03 3
Total Nitrogen 2.0 199
Phosphorus 0.62 62
Potassium 3.25 325
Calcium 0.45 45
Magnesium 0.4 40
Sulphur 0.10 10
Iron 0.03 2.5
Manganese 0.01 0.9
Boron 0.002 0.2
Zinc 0.002 0.2
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.0005 0.05
Cobalt 0.0005 0.05
Nickel 0.0005 0.05

EC at 1:100 2.0 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1770 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.63


IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
GROW %W/V ppm w/s

Nitrate-Nitrogen 2.4 239
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.2 22
Total Nitrogen 2.6 261
Phosphorus 0.4 40
Potassium 3.302 330
Calcium 1.3 130
Magnesium 0.32 32
Sulphate 0.40 40
Iron 0.039 3.9
Manganese 0.011 1.1
Boron 0.003 0.26
Zinc 0.003 0.26
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.00065 0.065
Cobalt 0.00065 0.065
Nickel 0.00065 0.065

EC at 1:100 2.2 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 1992 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 8.5 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.4

IONIC Concentrate diluted 10ml/L
BLOOM %W/V ppm w/s

Nitrate-Nitrogen 2.3 227
Ammonium-Nitrogen 0.1 9
Total Nitrogen 2.4 236
Phosphorus 0.8 81
Potassium 3.835 384
Calcium 1.3 130
Magnesium 0.32 32
Sulphate 0.40 40
Iron 0.039 3.9
Manganese 0.011 1.1
Boron 0.003 0.26
Zinc 0.003 0.26
Copper 0.0013 0.13
Molybdenum 0.00065 0.065
Cobalt 0.00065 0.065
Nickel 0.00065 0.065

EC at 1:100 2.3 mS/cm2
TDS at 1:100 2028 mg/L TDS
% NH4-N 3.8 % of total N
pH 5.8 to 6.3
K:N = 1.7

Click to expand...

Sorry I was absent for a bit. I'll do this here shortly.

outlier said:

So canna coco part a is essentially calmag?!?!

Interesting!

Click to expand...

Not exactly. The blends that I had listed will be basically the same when used together. That is, use part A and B. There is more than one way to add two parts and get the same result. 3+4 = 7 and so does 2+5 and 1+6.

churchhaze said:

I've been screaming this (well the opposite) for like 4 years now. Did someone finally hear me? Cal-mag+ overlaps with so many other hydro nutes that you could use cal-mag+ itself as part A of a base nute. Imo, it's the dumbest product on the whole weed market.

Click to expand...

I realized that when I first started this. In fact, every commercial stock solution that I see uses a single stock tank for Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, and if called for, sometimes Potassium nitrate.

What's ridiculous about CalMag products is that they are so far from the solubility limits of a calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I can make a 7-0-0 calmag with ease, and that's not even pushing it really hard.

pinner420 said:

Very talented MisterBlah.. Thank you... I guess this is the next step. Are you going to be posting any video's on some of your techniques on your website? What typical quantity of concentrate do you shoot for? I have 5 gallon and 1 gallon bottles laying around. Probably more accurate to blend larger batches. Would it be more effective to mix 50 gallons of say your canna replication or stick to the smaller more manageble bottle sizes. I need to get an ro machine and was hoping one of you folks has a suggestion for one that is reasonable you know not to cheap not to expensive that you like.

Click to expand...

You don't necessarily need RO. Go get a water test done. Look at QAL.us. You can get an irrigation suitability test done for $32.50. Come back here and post the results. If you're using tap water or city water, at the very most, you might want a chloramine filter. But really, you probably don't need a filter.

ttystikk said:

Having the 50lb bags around for years has actually worked out pretty well for me, lol

Click to expand...

Having a 5lb bag vs a 50lb bag means a small difference. You will need to by 5lb bags more often. You will need marginally more space to store 50lb bags.

I don't really get why people don't by the 50 lb bags. It's cheaper. So so much cheaper.

MisterBlah said:

What's ridiculous about CalMag products is that they are so far from the solubility limits of a calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I can make a 7-0-0 calmag with ease, and that's not even pushing it really hard.

Click to expand...

It is ridiculous, but the whole idea of adding calmag+ to replace the "calmag" lost from making RO water makes no sense. If your part "A" really doesn't have enough calcium, why add it in a separate stock solution rather than just changing your "A" formula. You'd think this would be common sense, but the majority of the regulars here seem to think they need a separate overlapping bottle (cal-mag+)..

If I have to supplement my own A+B formula and it works well, I generally make a new iteration of the A+B formula and add the supplement directly to A+B. For example, if my current A+B iteration has magnesium deficiency and it is corrected with magnesium sulfate, the same amount of magnesium sulfate is added directly to the B formula in the next iteration so correction is no longer needed.

Next iteration = Current iteration + supplement (that fixes a deficiency).

MisterBlah said:

I don't really get why people don't by the 50 lb bags. It's cheaper. So so much cheaper.

Click to expand...

Especially for calcium nitrate. A 50lb bag of calcium nitrate is the best investment a hydro grower can make.

@MisterBlah i notice that some companies(canna, advanced, house and garden) have humic acid mixed into their base formula. are they just using fulvic acid powder that has been mixed with distilled water then filtered to accomplish this? if so at what rate should this be added to a stock solution? if you wanted to make a three part could you mix humic/fulvic with potassium silicate in concentration?

guerrilla medic said:

@MisterBlah i notice that some companies(canna, advanced, house and garden) have humic acid mixed into their base formula. are they just using fulvic acid powder that has been mixed with distilled water then filtered to accomplish this? if so at what rate should this be added to a stock solution? if you wanted to make a three part could you mix humic/fulvic with potassium silicate in concentration?

Click to expand...

Yeah, many companies do add humic acids. They aren't always fulvic acid though. As I'm sure you know, fulvic acid is the lightest humic acid, by molecular weight. But it's also the most expensive. And because of that, it is unlikely that a company would only use fulvic acid when general humic acid is far cheaper. Chances are, they are using a powdered or granular leonardite. They may or may not filter out particulate.

In regards to concentration, that's a really good question and there's always going to be a lot of debate. But if you add between 50 and 400 ppm of humic acids to your final feed solution, you will notice the benefits. This is 0.05g/L to 0.4g/L of humic acids. 5g/100L up to 40g/100L. This will be about 1 tsp/100L up to 3 tbsp/100L.

If you create a stock solution, just multiple those numbers by the ratio of concentrate you want to make. If you want to add 15mL/gal (4mL/L) of a stock solution in order to get 100 ppm, then you will need to add 25 g/L. This is a 250:1 stock solution.

You should be able to add humic/fulvic with potassium silicate, but there isn't much of a reason to, TBH. Both most typically come in a powder or granule, and as long as you can measure mass you can measure the right amount you need.

churchhaze said:

It is ridiculous, but the whole idea of adding calmag+ to replace the "calmag" lost from making RO water makes no sense. If your part "A" really doesn't have enough calcium, why add it in a separate stock solution rather than just changing your "A" formula. You'd think this would be common sense, but the majority of the regulars here seem to think they need a separate overlapping bottle (cal-mag+)..

If I have to supplement my own A+B formula and it works well, I generally make a new iteration of the A+B formula and add the supplement directly to A+B. For example, if my current A+B iteration has magnesium deficiency and it is corrected with magnesium sulfate, the same amount of magnesium sulfate is added directly to the B formula in the next iteration so correction is no longer needed.

Next iteration = Current iteration + supplement (that fixes a deficiency).

Click to expand...

Not sure if that's directed at me. But I ain't no self-proclaimed guru mate... I am here to learn, not compare dick sizes.

I recently grew for the first time in coco. That's where my interest in calcium, magnesium and coco specific nutrients lies. I don't have access to municipal tap water, my water falls from the sky at 0ppm and ph 7. It comes out of my tank at about 5-15ppm. That's what I have to work with. If I need calcium, magnesium, iron, whatever, I fucking need it and if I don't have the salts or the knowledge to make my own, I'm gonna go out to my local hydro store and buy the shit off the shelf.

That in itself is why I'm very interested in this thread and will no longer pollute it with more useless bullshit

outlier said:

Not sure if that's directed at me. But I ain't no self-proclaimed guru mate... I am here to learn, not compare dick sizes.

I recently grew for the first time in coco. That's where my interest in calcium, magnesium and coco specific nutrients lies. I don't have access to municipal tap water, my water falls from the sky at 0ppm and ph 7. It comes out of my tank at about 5-15ppm. That's what I have to work with. If I need calcium, magnesium, iron, whatever, I fucking need it and if I don't have the salts or the knowledge to make my own, I'm gonna go out to my local hydro store and buy the shit off the shelf.

That in itself is why I'm very interested in this thread and will no longer pollute it with more useless bullshit

Click to expand...

You aren't the only one here who thinks they need a dedicated "calmag" product when using RO/distilled/rain water. The fact is that the overlapping product is not needed. I thought you realized this a few days ago.

The only reason people are led to believe they need an extra bottle with these overlapping nutrients is good marketing.

I just can't t understand why people would want to reverse engineer these "supplements".