Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Does anyone add worms to pots for aeration? I run 18 inch deep, 34 gallon soil beds on wheels and I want a worm that burrows to help with soil structure. I am having a hard time deciding between alabama jumpers and canadian nightcrawlers. I already have red wrigglers and europeans for composting.

I really like the night crawlers because they drag food deep into burrows. and dislike the jumpers because they look like snakes. but that isn't that important lol

What does everyone think?

Thanks!
 

Forte

Well-Known Member
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)
Can someone tell me if I'm right...Does he mean 16 cups of glacial, 4 cups bentonite, 4 cups oyster shell, 4 cups basalt?
 

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
Does anyone use Blumats for their ROLS pots? Recommended or nah? My current grow is water only, so it'd be amazing to have it self water from a reservoir while i'm away. :bigjoint:
I've been wondering the same thing. I've seen a few no till guys using them in commercial settings so I would assume they work well enough
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Does anyone use Blumats for their ROLS pots? Recommended or nah? My current grow is water only, so it'd be amazing to have it self water from a reservoir while i'm away. :bigjoint:
I haven't tried those yet, but I know of a few others that do. Rrog does for sure, or at least did at one point.
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Does anyone add worms to pots for aeration? I run 18 inch deep, 34 gallon soil beds on wheels and I want a worm that burrows to help with soil structure. I am having a hard time deciding between alabama jumpers and canadian nightcrawlers. I already have red wrigglers and europeans for composting.

I really like the night crawlers because they drag food deep into burrows. and dislike the jumpers because they look like snakes. but that isn't that important lol

What does everyone think?

Thanks!
Absol-freaking-lutely! My smart pots are giant worm bins with some plants! I just have to pull back some mulch for the worm show. ;)

Edit: Imo you want Epigeic worms (red wigglers, himalayan blues, euros, etc). I've never tried it, but I'm told regular old earth worms won't survive in pots.

Peace!

P-
 

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Does anyone use Blumats for their ROLS pots? Recommended or nah? My current grow is water only, so it'd be amazing to have it self water from a reservoir while i'm away. :bigjoint:
I use blumats in my huge pots. When I first bought blumats I went with the regular size before I did proper research so I have been stuck with them ever since :) I found you can use them for bigger pots you just have to move the dripper closer to the blumats. Anyways, I highly recommend them just because I haven't seen anything better. My plants love them, they are huge and I don't have to worry about water. And it works based on moisture and pressure so it will always keep the soil where you set it ime.

If you are interested how they came up with the idea check this out.
http://permaculturenews.org/2010/09/16/ollas-unglazed-clay-pots-for-garden-irrigation/

I use those in my garden outside and blumats inside.

:)
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Absol-freaking-lutely! My smart pots are giant worm bins with some plants! I just have to pull back some mulch for the worm show. ;)

Edit: Imo you want Epigeic worms (red wigglers, himalayan blues, euros, etc). I've never tried it, but I'm told regular old earth worms won't survive in pots.

Peace!

P-
Regular earthworms will be fine in the pots, but I suppose it depends on your "regular" earthworms, I have some that are in my pots at all times, I can tell they are the big earthworms by the size of the castings, that and they tend to "pile" them up a lil different than the reds do.
Course our weather is pretty good here, so when I say native earthworms will live, I mean, here, (CA) and in my experience.
Easy to gather too, just put a tarp out before it rains and then after you'll have like 15 or 20 or so under them.
They are a must-have for large no-tills. I mean after all, they just till up your soil for you, and add their magic to it as they go.
I add at least ten good size ones to each of my pots, I breed them in my worm bin, they seem to get along just fine with the redworms.
I'm just a huge dork about it all, I like to reproduce the entire little ecosystem, from the microbes, to the bacteria, to the rotting wood, to the compost and worms, it's all VERY fascinating to me, more so than growing herb ever will be, which is a lil weird...
 
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Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Regular earthworms will be fine in the pots, but I suppose it depends on your "regular" earthworms, I have some that are in my pots at all times, I can tell they are the big earthworms by the size of the castings, that and they tend to "pile" them up a lil different than the reds do.
Course our weather is pretty good here, so when I say native earthworms will live, I mean, here, (CA) and in my experience.
Easy to gather too, just put a tarp out before it rains and then after you'll have like 15 or 20 or so under them.
They are a must-have for large no-tills. I mean after all, they just till up your soil for you, and add their magic to it as they go.
I add at least ten good size ones to each of my pots, I breed them in my worm bin, they seem to get along just fine with the redworms.
I'm just a huge dork about it all, I like to reproduce the entire little ecosystem, from the microbes, to the bacteria, to the rotting wood, to the compost and worms, it's all VERY fascinating to me, more so than growing herb ever will be, which is a lil weird...
Grease, I misused the word 'earthworm'. What I should have said is anecic worms. I'm trying to find the the information I had read. Until then, as far as aeration, etc.

From Vermiculture Technologies:

III EFFECTS OF EARTHWORMS ON SOILS
The positive activities and benefits of earthworms have been appreciated since the times of Darwin (1881). By burrowing into the soil, earthworms provide channels that allow air to circulate more freely and equally permit rainwater to percolate in, rather than potentially causing erosion through surface runoff. The intimate mixing of soil layers brought about by earthworms’ ingestion of soil and their castings, either within the soil profile or on the soil surface, causes mineral components and organic fragments to become closely associated. The nature of the castings produced by earthworms is unique, and the crumb structure, and the aggregates formed by the various inorganic and organic components held together by mucus, is an ideal sub- strate for plant growth. Earthworm casts are rich in beneficial microorganisms and nutrients compared with the contents of the surrounding soil (Orazova et al. 2003). Therefore, passage of soil through the gut of an earthworm adds to the microbial status of soil (Edwards and Bohlen 1996). In many studies earthworms have been shown to have positive effects on the growth of vegetation. When earthworms were introduced to pastures where they were previously absent, initial production of grass increased by 70% in the first year (Stockdill and Cossens 1966). Root production by fruit trees was found to be greater where earthworms had been added to Dutch orchards on polder soils (Rhee 1971), and barley’s growth rate and yield were signifi- cantly increased by the presence of earthworms in direct drilled (no till) cultivation (Edwards and Lofty 1980). Senapati et al. (1994) also demonstrated that earthworm inoculation into commercial Indian tea plantations promoted fine root biomass and green leaf production.


V EARTHWORM ECOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS

All of the earthworms described to date (some 3000 or so species) can be placed into one of three major groupings: epigeic, endogeic, and anecic species (Bouché 1977). The first of these groups, the epigeic species, encompasses all of the earthworm species that inhabit the upper organic layers of the soil and may also occur within compost heaps (often referred to as “compost earthworms”). These include common species such as Eisenia fetida (the brandling or tiger worm) and Dendrobaena veneta (another earthworm) in Europe, Eudrilus eugeniae (the African night crawler) used in the United States, and Perionyx excavatus in Asia. This group of species is famil- iar to vermicomposters, and species in it are used extensively to break down various types of waste organic matter into vermicomposts. However, excluding Dendrobaena veneta and Lumbricus rubellus, most of these earthworms do not thrive well in min- eral soils and consequently are of limited use in land-improvement schemes (even though they may be sold for this purpose by some dealers).

Earthworms that fall within the other two major ecological groups do not require such a high level of organic matter and are very productive in mineral soils. Endogeic species may be of small size and live within temporary horizontal branching burrows close to the soil surface (e.g., Allolobophora chlorotica, Aporrectodea caliginosa). They are geophagous (soil-feeding) in nature—literally eating their way through the soil. Equally, some anecic species may be larger and inhabit more vertical and per- manent deep burrows (e.g., Aporrectodea longa, Lumbricus terrestris). The latter two species are the earthworms that can prove most useful in the process of land restora- tion. However, although their life cycles have the same three developmental stages (... adult → cocoon → hatchling → adult ...), they are less prolific in population buildup than the vermicompost earthworms. They do not have either the rapid growth or the rapid reproduction shown by vermicompost earthworms and consequently take longer to produce sustainable populations (i.e., they tend to be K-selected). Also, due to their lifestyle, culturing these earthworms proves more difficult since the substrate in which they must be maintained requires not only an organic food content but also a min- eral soil base. Thus a greater volume of material is needed, which may be difficult to accommodate. This is the major reason why earthworms have usually been collected for use from the field, rather than bred specifically in most research projects. However, if feasible, there may be advantages to breeding earthworms for field inoculation.

P-
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Grease, I misused the word 'earthworm'. What I should have said is anecic worms. I'm trying to find the the information I had read. Until then, as far as aeration, etc.

From Vermiculture Technologies:

III EFFECTS OF EARTHWORMS ON SOILS

The positive activities and benefits of earthworms have been appreciated since the times of Darwin (1881). By burrowing into the soil, earthworms provide channels that allow air to circulate more freely and equally permit rainwater to percolate in, rather than potentially causing erosion through surface runoff. The intimate mixing of soil layers brought about by earthworms’ ingestion of soil and their castings, either within the soil profile or on the soil surface, causes mineral components and organic fragments to become closely associated. The nature of the castings produced by earthworms is unique, and the crumb structure, and the aggregates formed by the various inorganic and organic components held together by mucus, is an ideal sub- strate for plant growth. Earthworm casts are rich in beneficial microorganisms and nutrients compared with the contents of the surrounding soil (Orazova et al. 2003). Therefore, passage of soil through the gut of an earthworm adds to the microbial status of soil (Edwards and Bohlen 1996). In many studies earthworms have been shown to have positive effects on the growth of vegetation. When earthworms were introduced to pastures where they were previously absent, initial production of grass increased by 70% in the first year (Stockdill and Cossens 1966). Root production by fruit trees was found to be greater where earthworms had been added to Dutch orchards on polder soils (Rhee 1971), and barley’s growth rate and yield were signifi- cantly increased by the presence of earthworms in direct drilled (no till) cultivation (Edwards and Lofty 1980). Senapati et al. (1994) also demonstrated that earthworm inoculation into commercial Indian tea plantations promoted fine root biomass and green leaf production.


P-
ahh, as usual your link was an informative one. Good stuff there.
I do think that what I have in my wormbins is a specie of the anecic ones, reason I say that is that the do have the "cobra" tail, kinda like a spade, evidently to keep them from being plucked out of the ground when they surface.
It's weird though, I know for a FACT that they are reproducing, because the adolescents, babies, and cocoons look totally different, that and I only added maybe 30 or so to my wormbin, and that was back in sept or so, and now there are a whole lot more in there.
Maybe I have some weird native earthworm that doesn't mind a smartpot full of his redworm brothers and sisters (yeah I know they are hermaphrodites)
I love em though, and if you do any fishing the earthworms are waaaaay better than the reds
 

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Grease, I misused the word 'earthworm'. What I should have said is anecic worms. I'm trying to find the the information I had read. Until then, as far as aeration, etc.

From Vermiculture Technologies:

III EFFECTS OF EARTHWORMS ON SOILS
The positive activities and benefits of earthworms have been appreciated since the times of Darwin (1881). By burrowing into the soil, earthworms provide channels that allow air to circulate more freely and equally permit rainwater to percolate in, rather than potentially causing erosion through surface runoff. The intimate mixing of soil layers brought about by earthworms’ ingestion of soil and their castings, either within the soil profile or on the soil surface, causes mineral components and organic fragments to become closely associated. The nature of the castings produced by earthworms is unique, and the crumb structure, and the aggregates formed by the various inorganic and organic components held together by mucus, is an ideal sub- strate for plant growth. Earthworm casts are rich in beneficial microorganisms and nutrients compared with the contents of the surrounding soil (Orazova et al. 2003). Therefore, passage of soil through the gut of an earthworm adds to the microbial status of soil (Edwards and Bohlen 1996). In many studies earthworms have been shown to have positive effects on the growth of vegetation. When earthworms were introduced to pastures where they were previously absent, initial production of grass increased by 70% in the first year (Stockdill and Cossens 1966). Root production by fruit trees was found to be greater where earthworms had been added to Dutch orchards on polder soils (Rhee 1971), and barley’s growth rate and yield were signifi- cantly increased by the presence of earthworms in direct drilled (no till) cultivation (Edwards and Lofty 1980). Senapati et al. (1994) also demonstrated that earthworm inoculation into commercial Indian tea plantations promoted fine root biomass and green leaf production.


V EARTHWORM ECOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS

All of the earthworms described to date (some 3000 or so species) can be placed into one of three major groupings: epigeic, endogeic, and anecic species (Bouché 1977). The first of these groups, the epigeic species, encompasses all of the earthworm species that inhabit the upper organic layers of the soil and may also occur within compost heaps (often referred to as “compost earthworms”). These include common species such as Eisenia fetida (the brandling or tiger worm) and Dendrobaena veneta (another earthworm) in Europe, Eudrilus eugeniae (the African night crawler) used in the United States, and Perionyx excavatus in Asia. This group of species is famil- iar to vermicomposters, and species in it are used extensively to break down various types of waste organic matter into vermicomposts. However, excluding Dendrobaena veneta and Lumbricus rubellus, most of these earthworms do not thrive well in min- eral soils and consequently are of limited use in land-improvement schemes (even though they may be sold for this purpose by some dealers).

Earthworms that fall within the other two major ecological groups do not require such a high level of organic matter and are very productive in mineral soils. Endogeic species may be of small size and live within temporary horizontal branching burrows close to the soil surface (e.g., Allolobophora chlorotica, Aporrectodea caliginosa). They are geophagous (soil-feeding) in nature—literally eating their way through the soil. Equally, some anecic species may be larger and inhabit more vertical and per- manent deep burrows (e.g., Aporrectodea longa, Lumbricus terrestris). The latter two species are the earthworms that can prove most useful in the process of land restora- tion. However, although their life cycles have the same three developmental stages (... adult → cocoon → hatchling → adult ...), they are less prolific in population buildup than the vermicompost earthworms. They do not have either the rapid growth or the rapid reproduction shown by vermicompost earthworms and consequently take longer to produce sustainable populations (i.e., they tend to be K-selected). Also, due to their lifestyle, culturing these earthworms proves more difficult since the substrate in which they must be maintained requires not only an organic food content but also a min- eral soil base. Thus a greater volume of material is needed, which may be difficult to accommodate. This is the major reason why earthworms have usually been collected for use from the field, rather than bred specifically in most research projects. However, if feasible, there may be advantages to breeding earthworms for field inoculation.

P-
Wow thats exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!
 

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Regular earthworms will be fine in the pots, but I suppose it depends on your "regular" earthworms, I have some that are in my pots at all times, I can tell they are the big earthworms by the size of the castings, that and they tend to "pile" them up a lil different than the reds do.
Course our weather is pretty good here, so when I say native earthworms will live, I mean, here, (CA) and in my experience.
Easy to gather too, just put a tarp out before it rains and then after you'll have like 15 or 20 or so under them.
They are a must-have for large no-tills. I mean after all, they just till up your soil for you, and add their magic to it as they go.
I add at least ten good size ones to each of my pots, I breed them in my worm bin, they seem to get along just fine with the redworms.
I'm just a huge dork about it all, I like to reproduce the entire little ecosystem, from the microbes, to the bacteria, to the rotting wood, to the compost and worms, it's all VERY fascinating to me, more so than growing herb ever will be, which is a lil weird...
I'm definitely going to try that. I was thinking of getting some canadians at walmart too. I heard they don't live well in a worm bin so congratulations on breeding them for your pots! Do you grab any worms or the really large ones? I want to make sure they will burrow deep since my pots are full of clay. Getting them from outside should accomplish that.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I'm definitely going to try that. I was thinking of getting some canadians at walmart too. I heard they don't live well in a worm bin so congratulations on breeding them for your pots! Do you grab any worms or the really large ones? I want to make sure they will burrow deep since my pots are full of clay. Getting them from outside should accomplish that.
I think the key for me was getting the native ones, I imagine the Canadian ones would need a cooler environment.
I was just experimenting, as I have always read and heard that the nightcrawlers don't like compost bins, but like I said, maybe the native ones are a lil different?
All I did was rescue the big fatties from the puddles, and I put out a 6x6 foot tarp and got a bunch more that way.
Side note though, a pot full of clay based soil may have some problems breathing... Just sayin, you get a damn good CEC but not enough oxygen
 
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