Poor kids who do everything right don’t do better than rich kids who do everything wrong

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Very good. You can copy paste from a dictionary. Duke Anthony taught you well.
And apparently you can't..

If we're going to discuss economic ideas, it benefits the conversation if both people understand and agree to the real definition of words. Sorry to collapse your house of cards, but that's the way it works in dialogue between people.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
And apparently you can't..

If we're going to discuss economic ideas, it benefits the conversation if both people understand and agree to the real definition of words. Sorry to collapse your house of cards, but that's the way it works in dialogue between people.
They're both collectivist nonsense. People as a whole begin to think like ants. It doesn't lead to utopia, it leads to a very fucked up variant of social Darwinism.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
They're both collectivist nonsense. People as a whole begin to think like ants. It doesn't lead to utopia, it leads to a very fucked up variant of social Darwinism.
Again, you're mischaracterizing what capitalism actually means, and instead arguing with what you think capitalism means

Unless your goal is practicing futility, this gets both of us nowhere

You're conflating capitalism with crony-capitalism
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Again, you're mischaracterizing what capitalism actually means, and instead arguing with what you think capitalism means

Unless your goal is practicing futility, this gets both of us nowhere

You're conflating capitalism with crony-capitalism
How do you prevent syndicalism(so called crony capitalism is but one type) from forming with capitalism without some sort of nanny state?

The people will either rise up, or be so weak, they'll be imprisoned slaves.

Capitalism doesn't start as "crony" but that's the end game. Capitalism, communism and socialism all turn out the same. The path is all which separates them.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
How do you prevent syndicalism(so called crony capitalism is but one type) from forming with capitalism without some sort of nanny state?

The people will either rise up, or be so weak, they'll be imprisoned slaves.

Capitalism doesn't start as "crony" but that's the end game. Capitalism, communism and socialism all turn out the same. The path is all which separates them.
Regulation

False dichotomy

In my own observations, crony-capitalism results in very wealthy business owners & politicians, 'crony'-communism and 'crony'-socialism result in only wealthy politicians, so I would disagree with your opinion.

The US is a combination of crony-capitalism and crony-socialism, and as a result, we've turned into somewhat of a de-facto oligarchy (many ruled by few). The combined 400 wealthiest people in America make up more than half of the combined wealth of the population, that is more than 160 million people. 400 people have collected more wealth than 160,000,000 others.

That's a problem that we can choose to face two ways. Peacefully or violently. Flashback to France circa 1789, they chose the violent path and most of us know how that turned out for the aristocracy.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
How do you prevent the rich from paying their way out, while the poor go to jail for the same offense? Regulation is only one way which those with power keep the rest from also gaining power.

What you said is the result of both capitalism and socialism. It can't be fixed because both approaches and even a mixture is a flawed.

You can't just call them crony or oligarchy versions. It's just the inevitable conclusion.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
How do you prevent the rich from paying their way out, while the poor go to jail for the same offense? Regulation is only one way which those with power keep the rest from also gaining power.
It's our responsibility as citizens to hold elected officials accountable for the things they say & do. This, I feel, is a responsibility the vast majority of us have relegated to institutions controlled by those same elected officials under scrutiny. It's our responsibility as citizens to look beyond party affiliation and into the real substance of what is being said & done. This, I feel, is a responsibility not correctly utilized by the masses since the conglomeration of mainstream media.

We have to hold people accountable, that used to be the job of journalists, now we have no one. We are forced to do it ourselves through the power of our vote. If a politician promises something, like they won't waste resources on enforcing marijuana prohibition and raiding dispensaries during their administration, then they raid more dispensaries than the Bush and Clinton administration combined, we need to hold them accountable for that.

Our silence regarding these issues and our refusal to call a spade a spade when it gives our party a flush is detrimental to all of us as citizens and it's how they continuously get away with it, the collective blind party affiliation facilitates it, be it left when a democrat is in office or right when a republican is in office.


What you said is the result of both capitalism and socialism. It can't be fixed because both approaches and even a mixture is a flawed.
Every economic system is flawed, there is no such thing as a perfect system. All we can do is strive for the best. I think a combination of capitalism and socialism would be best if strict regulations regarding campaign financing were implemented, but you can't get corrupt politicians to enact a system that would put their own livelihood at stake. Politicians simply don't vote against their own interests. This is why we need an amendment to the constitution.

You can't just call them crony or oligarchy versions. It's just the inevitable conclusion.
Crony-capitalism and crony-socialism are real economic concepts, I didn't make them up or just call it that to prove a point. That's what it is, that's what we currently live under. Politicians are bought, they vote according to their donors business interests, which usually results in a substantial return on investment and the American people are footed with the bill..
 
Last edited:

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Our means some sort of socialistic system, and therefore is no longer capitalism. When you use duty it's no different than patriotism.

Just because someone makes up a term and lots of people use it, doesn't mean anything.

Crony capitalism is a retarded term for when corporations and government collude there's little distinction between the two.

There are universal laws out there, just because neither of us knows them doesn't mean they don't exist.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Our means some sort of socialistic system, and therefore is no longer capitalism. When you use duty it's no different than patriotism.
"Patriotism" > Nationalism, "Our responsibility" to you, equates to Nationalism... Responsibility to hold public elected officials accountable for the things they promise and the things they do is Socialism/Nationalism/Communism..

You don't understand what these terms mean, you are equating them with things you disagree with because the media tells you to. You are hating perceived opponents of your beliefs based on incorrect information, unsubstantiated claims, and simple bigotry.

The United States military is 100% socialistic. You pay their salary, you pay for their health and recovery, you pay for the wars we wage, and you pay for their education when and if they decide to use it.


Just because someone makes up a term and lots of people use it, doesn't mean anything.

Crony capitalism is a retarded term for when corporations and government collude there's little distinction between the two.
What do you call it when corporations and government collude?

There are universal laws out there, just because neither of us knows them doesn't mean they don't exist.
How does this apply to our current conversation?
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
"Patriotism" > Nationalism, "Our responsibility" to you, equates to Nationalism... Responsibility to hold public elected officials accountable for the things they promise and the things they do is Socialism/Nationalism/Communism..

You don't understand what these terms mean, you are equating them with things you disagree with because the media tells you to. You are hating perceived opponents of your beliefs based on incorrect information, unsubstantiated claims, and simple bigotry.

The United States military is 100% socialistic. You pay their salary, you pay for their health and recovery, you pay for the wars we wage, and you pay for their education when and if they decide to use it.



What do you call it when corporations and government collude?



How does this apply to our current conversation?
That's correct, I'm not a nationalist. Those aren't my elected officials. They're yours. I didn't vote. Anyone who voted is their responsibility.

Whatever the military does is your fault, not mine. By supporting voting, you allowed in the King.

You brought up voting. A collective can't change reality. For instance, slavery is a universal wrong. Just because we once voted for it didn't make it right. People just didn't give a fuck.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
That's correct, I'm not a nationalist. Those aren't my elected officials. They're yours. I didn't vote. Anyone who voted is their responsibility.
It is not "nationalism" to expect public officials to be held accountable for the things they say and do. It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States.

Whatever the military does is your fault, not mine. By supporting voting, you allowed in the King.
You pay taxes? You're responsible for financing the military just as much as I am, regardless of if you voted for who or not.

You brought up voting. A collective can't change reality. For instance, slavery is a universal wrong. Just because we once voted for it didn't make it right. People just didn't give a fuck.
That's interesting but demonstrably false, the collective gave slaves the right to vote via the 15th amendment in 1865, the collective gave women the right to vote via the 19th amendment in 1920, and the 28th amendment will get money out of politics in the very near future. Collectives change current reality all the time.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
One can refuse to vote. How does one refuse taxes and not eventually land in jail?

I don't see why we need public officials. This is a new age which requires specialists.

Having a military like ours is just begging for martial law. It'll happen one day once the collective gun grabbers have their way.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
One can refuse to vote. How does one refuse taxes and not eventually land in jail?
When you figure that out, let me know..

I don't see why we need public officials. This is a new age which requires specialists.
We don't need the congress or senate, but we do need state legislatures, which are made up of elected officials, but not career politicians like the legislative branch. This means there is a higher chance of calling for a national convention to get the amendment passed. We already have 2 states, 32 to go.

Having a military like ours is just begging for martial law. It'll happen one day once the collective gun grabbers have their way.
The second amendment guarantees the right to keep & bear arms, you have nothing to worry about in that regard, that's how constitutional amendments work, and the founders felt that one so important they put it at #2, just behind the freedom to say what you want.

You have about as much of a chance of getting your guns taken away in this country as you do as getting your religion taken away (if you have one)..
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
NYC and DC already have the gun grabbers.You're allowed to own a gun but It must stay in a gun club to use one the range.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I would improve K-12 education, make it easier for lower classes of people to get secondary education, enact a 28th amendment to the constitution to get money out of politics and kick campaign finance reform into overdrive
How would you improve education? What would you do?

How would you make it easier for "lower classes" to get secondary education?

Getting money out of politics ? I'm not sure what you mean there. Are you saying that nobody should be able to buy the right to controlling power over others?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
How would you improve education? What would you do?
-I would raise teacher compensation and eliminate tenure to ensure quality educators fill those positions

-I would overturn No Child Left Behind

-I would create better curriculum that actually prepares students for college

-I would require comprehensive sex education

-I would ensure school districts have enough money to buy the things they need (eg. computers, books, desks, etc.)


How would you make it easier for "lower classes" to get secondary education?
-I would lower the costs of tuition and books

-For students still requiring a loan I would allow a better, more comprehensive student loan forgiveness program if they can't pay it back and I would flat out eliminate any compounding interest. Student loans would get 0.0% interest.


Getting money out of politics ? I'm not sure what you mean there. Are you saying that nobody should be able to buy the right to controlling power over others?
I'm saying I would have publicly funded, completely transparent elections where candidates aren't required to spend the majority of their time raising money for their campaign. I would overturn Buckley v. Valeo, First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, Citizens United v. FEC & McCutcheon v. FEC. And I would enact a 28th amendment that says corporations are not people and do not have the same Constitutional rights as human beings. Corporations can't give money to any politician directly or indirectly. No corporation can raise more than $100 from any person or entity, and all elections must be publicly financed.

http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th


No, you don't need a penny, the Fed Govt will loan all you need to you as long as you can fog a mirror. Instant acceptance, no credit required, no background check, everyone approved!!
Yes, but you're fully aware of how the concept of loans work, you will eventually pay that money back (with interest!), and student loans are not forgiven through bankruptcy. This ensures a percentage of students will not have access to education because of the high costs and crippling debt.
 

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
"Patriotism" > Nationalism, "Our responsibility" to you, equates to Nationalism... Responsibility to hold public elected officials accountable for the things they promise and the things they do is Socialism/Nationalism/Communism..

You don't understand what these terms mean, you are equating them with things you disagree with because the media tells you to. You are hating perceived opponents of your beliefs based on incorrect information, unsubstantiated claims, and simple bigotry.

The United States military is 100% socialistic. You pay their salary, you pay for their health and recovery, you pay for the wars we wage, and you pay for their education when and if they decide to use it.



What do you call it when corporations and government collude?



How does this apply to our current conversation?
"What do you call it when corps.and gov. collide?: REGULATORY CAPTURE
 
Top