Polyploidy questions..

03-31-2007, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northerntights
polyploidy is when you have the cell of your plants that have multiple copies of the same chromosome, in plants this can be a great thing. Polyploidy is something thats really only caused by a chemical known as colchicine, so toxic one grain can kill you and there is no cure. It used to be used to give better yielding, albeit sterile plants... Ironic it was the US government that pioneered the technology in an attempt to create a THC free marijuana for the creation of hemp during WWII. All they did was get the researchers really high, and give them cancer from the residual toxin. No one uses that stuff anymore since breeding practices have gotten so controlled. so there is the fyi on polyploidy lol. Yet another informative yet rather useless nerd moment!

look what you did, i had to pullout my pocket protector and some old links on this 1. so lets get nerdy up in here.
ok good post for the most part, a few things being off. polyploidial plants arent just caused by colchicine. there are plants and animals that are just born that way. and colchicine is only 1 way of changeing the plants cells. check out gibberellic acids and promalin.
as for it being deadly,,, yeah it can be but not something as small as 1 grain. "Colchicine is Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved for the treatment of gout and also for familial Mediterranean fever, secondary amyloidosis(AA), and scleroderma."
and it is still in use for plants aswell "Since chromosome segregation is driven by microtubules, colchicine is also used for inducing polyploidy in plant cells during cellular division by inhibiting chromosome segregation during meiosis; half the resulting gametes therefore contain no chromosomes, while the other half contain double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e., diploid instead of haploid as gametes usually are), and lead to embryos with double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e. tetraploid instead of diploid). While this would be fatal in animal cells, in plant cells it is not only usually well tolerated, but in fact frequently results in plants which are larger, hardier, faster growing, and in general more desirable than the normally diploid parents; for this reason, this type of genetic manipulation is frequent in breeding plants commercially. In addition, when such a tetraploid plant is crossed with a diploid plant, the triploid offspring will be sterile (which may be commercially useful in itself by requiring growers to buy seed from the supplier) but can often be induced to create a "seedless" fruit if pollinated (usually the triploid will also not produce pollen, therefore a diploid parent is needed to provide the pollen). This is the method used to create seedless watermelons, for instance. On the other hand, colchicine's ability to induce polyploidy can be exploited to render infertile hybrids fertile, as is done when breeding triticale from wheat and rye. Wheat is typically tetraploid and rye diploid, with the triploid hybrid infertile. Treatment with colchicine of triploid triticale gives fertile hexaploid triticale."wikipedia
and i know its kinda lame to post other sites on this 1 but if your 1/2 the nerd i am youll dig this
Advanced Nutrients Medical - Bigger LEaves Via PROMALIN???
bcgrowers title

fdd2blk said:

good luck with that.


i love you

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you too dear, you too

i love you more

polyploid plants are like UFOs,,, yes they are out there and yes some are man made too lol

kindprincess said:

you too dear, you too

i love you more

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i don't need luck.........i'm magic........poof

...It can be induced by stripping the leaves. Ive done it. Mel Thomas has done it..Pick up his Grow Book. Wrote it in jail..Not like he has much to lie about.

while on the subject,,, any1 have a pic or 2 of exactly what one looks like as a seedling?

Havent ever seen one as a seedling. I started with it after about the eighth node of growth.

can you tell me in detail what to look for if i was looking for 1? any tail tail signs or whatever will be just fine. ive got a seedling that is showing some wierd leaves and strange growth, but im like you i havent ever seen 1 very young either. i guess i can go take a few pics if i really need to, im just lazy and dont want to get up lol

A book is easy to write. A novel can be as short as 100, 000 words. 2,000 words a day and you've written your first draught in 50 days. After that you do your second draught, third, fourth, maybe even 5th and 6th, but each successive draught is more quickly completed than the last.

There was a time when Stephen King was writing 2 novels a year, Terry Pratchett is another, although I doubt those of you in the US will have heard of him.

One day, when I feel I have the experience I will write a book. A book on growing weed shouldn't take too long. 6 months should be plenty of time to fill such a book, particularly when you don't have to make anything up.

Wow, so there's a science to growing retarded plants?

You know, I may have to do this on a smaller scale and just keep the future ebb and flow for better serving plants..Because up to 8 1000 watters is going to crush my bank account.

I wouldn't advise any more than 5000w in a residential property. Unless you live in a high rise block. Also the electric bill for 8,000w(in my country at least) would cost £15.20 every 24 hours.

I have a 13, 000 watt constant generator that I can work with..Im just curious as to how much gas that would use a day..

Not sure, but i'd guess that it'd be cheaper than paying an electric bill.

Should be..Ive ran it before during a hurricane, powering the house and it pushed about two and a half gallons a day...That's roughly six bucks a day.

Ok guys

Ive done some research on this mutation and i have experienced myself

Atm i have a polyploidy plant, it accured naturally, i placed the seed in soil and it came out like this, and im praying for a hermy so i can reproduce this

But anyway, it does occur naturally or you can order a special solution u germinate seeds in to get this, it mutates the genes in the seed, it does kill like 80% of your seeds tho : /

But anyway ya this does occur naturally

and it is said to have more potent buds

Hi guys and gals,
It's great to see everyone experiment with different methods of growing! Although I'm with KP and Dank in that these occurences happen naturally if not with the assistance of colchicine. You are not going to get a larger yield if using colchicine but rather what's called "crack weed" - a beyond the meter potency.. Keep in mind that I only quote the words of the author mentioned earlier.

I think we here today are the writers of future books and quotes and we should only use these books as a beginner and intermediate guideline. As this will branch out and further what you already know! I'd rather ponder my thoughts on creating a more fulfulling environment for my gals - heck why not just make it a contained biotope with the properties that were available to the dinosaurs..

Please do not judge my post count as a measure of experience due to the fact that I am a very experienced cultivator. I usually end up with a very serious potency to the end product without compromising yield but as KP stated "patience is indeed synonymous to potency!" A longer veg always induces greater flowering with the exception of keeping them short by supercropping and constant thinning in veg - cause lord knows I CAN't stand "popcorn bud." You can get away with so much in veg that it's really not even funny ...

"What's this new guy talking about?; who the hell is he?" Well I'll welcome your oppinions any day, week, month and year - but take mine here and don't be afraid to push the limit in veg including that of your nutrients. But just like anything - ease them into it.. I'm just a passer-by who hits his gals with 800, 1100, 1400, 1700 and I've even gone as high as 2000ppm's in veg.. Like Krusty Freedom stated: "The key is in the weekly flush during flowering - WEEKLY FLUSH!" Lookup his KFB - Krusty Freedom Buckets. This man produces 3lb plants!! He stated that the secret is in light distribution, ambience but more importantly the FLUSH.. Residual nutrients act as a poison over time during flowering - seriously impeeding your harvest weight. Rainfalls are natures natural flush - just keep that in mind.

I loved this post very much and I thankyou for welcoming my two cents. Good growing and I look forward to seeing the results of your experimentation.

PS.
I used them all including AN-(Spent $590 on the whole line and it yielded that of my previous FF harvest).. GHFlora 2-part on Lucas does it the same with ease on pockets - (I'll keep you posted on my results for my latest grow based off a 9 - 2 gallon double bucket system with a home made controller connected to a 45Gal drum. The desig was based off "Krypto's Ultimate Controller."

this post is from last year but i thought it was interesting none the less. the only thing i really question is letting the plant veg then stripping back all the fan leaves. i dont know shit about this particular subject but outside of stressing the shit out of the plant and increasing your grow time i dont see that this would actually work. anyone actually tried this since this last post?

kiss-ass i just thought this smiley was funny. hadnt seen it before

sir smokesalot said:

this post is from last year but i thought it was interesting none the less. the only thing i really question is letting the plant veg then stripping back all the fan leaves. i dont know shit about this particular subject but outside of stressing the shit out of the plant and increasing your grow time i dont see that this would actually work. anyone actually tried this since this last post?

kiss-ass i just thought this smiley was funny. hadnt seen it before

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Hi Sir Smokesalot,
I'm not in tune with the practice of using colchicine but I am in tune with stripping back the plant. The key is to do it sparringly. I normally wait till the neiboring chute is a half inch to an inch or more. As I stated in the previous post "You can get away with murder during veg." This is where I get away with using more nutes due to the fact that I make her WORK! In my garden everyone has to work - vacation for them starts when I flower. I normally veg with a 1000 watter as well causing them to eat and regen alot faster. It all depends on the light - Trust me when it comes down to it - The light is the key.

Now flowering is a different story because I do not touch anything at that point. I simply provide her with what she needs and avoid imbalances at ALL COSTS!

LoL I thought that smiley was funny too!!

Regarding the Polyploidy or, tetraploidy (4N) of Cannabis sativa in grow experiments.....


Check out this website for some basic genetics information.
http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/botany.html#Chapter 3 - Genetics and Breeding of Cannabis

Inducing polyploidy in the seed (embryonic) stage of the lifecycle with Colchicine vastly reduces the survivability of seeds, but those that do survive are very often polyploids. Worth trying out if you have access to lots of seeds.....


Peace.