parallel wiring led strips without wago's?

Enanthate · Jul 14, 2020

Wire-resistance is simply irrelevant. Know your shit before you give advice. Doesn't matter if you coil up 20meters of wire, it will not be visible.
If you have some bullshit experience telling you that wire-length matters, you probably had poor connections. Forget 2 or 4 ohms making a difference, and that's more ohms than you should have in your entire wiring.

Barristan Whitebeard · Jul 14, 2020

Enanthate said:
Wire-resistance is simply irrelevant. Know your shit before you give advice. Doesn't matter if you coil up 20meters of wire, it will not be visible.
If you have some bullshit experience telling you that wire-length matters, you probably had poor connections. Forget 2 or 4 ohms making a difference, and that's more ohms than you should have in your entire wiring.

Who are you referring to in this post?

gddg · Jul 14, 2020

Mak'er Grow said:
So basically no matter how they get connect your always going to have a loss without branching from driver to each strip really.

cobshopgrow said:
best would be of course each strip to the driver directly, sure.

so branching would be te best choice? this was my initial plan actually. I got inspired by the ledgardener DIY LED Strip Build Designs, i only didn't like all the wago's.

if i branch, solder and heatshrink everything like this would that be the best choice?
or can i branch from 1 brown+ wire from te middle to the left and right to the 4000k strips from the 240H driver?

Enanthate · Jul 14, 2020

gddg said:
so branching would be te best choice? this was my initial plan actually. I got inspired by the ledgardener DIY LED Strip Build Designs, i only didn't like all the wago's.

if i branch, solder and heatshrink everything like this would that be the best choice?
or can i branch from 1 brown+ wire from te middle to the left and right to the 4000k strips from the 240H driver?

View attachment 4624078

Yes, you can.
Trust yourself mate, you clearly have understood the principle of parallel-wiring. Next just do what's better/more practical for you

gddg · Jul 14, 2020

Is it also possible to use the + and - connectors on 1 side for branching or do they need to opposing each other ? (like in last paint drawing)

1212ham · Jul 14, 2020

gddg said:
so branching would be te best choice? this was my initial plan actually.

You got it. Use your 18 awg to branch off to the strips and the 14 awg for the trunk line.
I was just about to post that end_of_the_tunnel's post was being overlooked......
"I think some users attempting to use onboard connectors to daisy-chain large numbers of strips, even in parallel, found they had resistive losses. "

1212ham · Jul 14, 2020

gddg said:
Is it also possible to use the + and - connectors on 1 side for branching or do they need to opposing each other ? (like in last paint drawing)

Either way is fine.

1212ham · Jul 14, 2020

FWIW, I would solder on two or more branch wires per connection.

Mak'er Grow · Jul 14, 2020

gddg said:
so branching would be te best choice? this was my initial plan actually. I got inspired by the ledgardener DIY LED Strip Build Designs, i only didn't like all the wago's.

if i branch, solder and heatshrink everything like this would that be the best choice?
or can i branch from 1 brown+ wire from te middle to the left and right to the 4000k strips from the 240H driver?

View attachment 4624078

I myself dont like connectors and such, but mainly due to I have the worst luck.

I've always found in my 35+ years doing repairs on everything from PC's to ice cream machines etc (worked for a carnival for 9+ years...lol) that connectors will eventually fail...if its not bolted or screwed down and moves...eventually something comes loose.
Your design looks very well done again and will work fine.
Guess its time to get my old oscilloscope out and gather some parts together to find a solution to this and it will give me something to do while my plants are growing...lol
EDIT: Oh and 1212ham knows...best to follow that lead. ;P

Enanthate · Jul 14, 2020

Mak'er Grow said:
I myself dont like connectors and such, but mainly due to I have the worst luck.
I've always found in my 35+ years doing repairs on everything from PC's to ice cream machines etc (worked for a carnival for 9+ years...lol) that connectors will eventually fail...if its not bolted or screwed down and moves...eventually something comes loose.
Your design looks very well done again and will work fine.
Guess its time to get my old oscilloscope out and gather some parts together to find a solution to this and it will give me something to do while my plants are growing...lol
EDIT: Oh and 1212ham knows...best to follow that lead. ;P

What are you going to find out using an oscilloscope?
Just curious

SPLFreak808 · Jul 14, 2020

I think what enanthate was trying to say, the required wire gauge should have been one of the first things you calculated which would make resistance and length irrelevant.

When you aim for efficiency in a said circuit, you always give the conductor's some head room to prevent resistance down the line.

Resistance is only an issue if you make it one.

Rocket Soul · Jul 14, 2020

gddg said:
so branching would be te best choice? this was my initial plan actually. I got inspired by the ledgardener DIY LED Strip Build Designs, i only didn't like all the wago's.

if i branch, solder and heatshrink everything like this would that be the best choice?
or can i branch from 1 brown+ wire from te middle to the left and right to the 4000k strips from the 240H driver?

View attachment 4624078

Id go from the drivers to the middle of the circuit and branch out towards the sides, that way the daisy chain is halfed in length.

Enanthate · Jul 14, 2020

SPLFreak808 said:
I think what enanthate was trying to say, the required wire gauge should have been one of the first things you calculated which would make resistance and length irrelevant.

When you aim for efficiency in a said circuit, you always give the conductor's some head room to prevent resistance down the line.

Resistance is only an issue if you make it one.

I thought that was an obvious part of it all, but I (obviously?) forgot it's not. Thanks for pointing it out anyways

SPLFreak808 · Jul 14, 2020

Enanthate said:
I thought that was an obvious part of it all, but I (obviously?) forgot it's not. Thanks for pointing it out anyways

Ime, It's only obvious for engineers or those who actually use ohms law on a daily basis.

gddg · Jul 16, 2020

oke, something is not right i think.
I connected the 240H driver to the 4000k strips but i think they don't burn that bright and some of the 380nm and 405nm diodes seem to burn at different strength.

i also connected the strips to the 480H driver but they give the same light output as on the 240H driver.
i'm using potmeter 100k ohm + 10k ohm resistor and everything is wired through drok multimeter's V, W and A are the same on the multimeter when connected to the 480H driver and the 240H driver. I also disconnected the potmeter, turned the connections and left the resistor out, als connected direct to the driver's without the multimeter's but the burn the same :wall:

I's it possible that you can't connect the + and - on the same side of the strip and they need to opposing each other?

Maybe the multimeter's are broken but they are brand new

This is how i connected the 240H to the 4000k strips :

This is on the 240H driver :
top meter is AC 100A 80-260V, middle and bottom are DC 20A 100V

cobshopgrow · Jul 16, 2020

" 380nm and 405nm diodes seem to burn at different strength. "
thats normal, your eye is more sensitive to the 405nm then the 380.

the other strips have no uv?
uv diodes need a higher voltage often, maybe its need tad more voltage? on a A or AB drivder you would be able to push the voltage over the CC region.
On a B driver it needs to be in the CC region, maybe your config is over due to the uv leds.
but idk the strips, better ask welight.

"I's it possible that you can't connect the + and - on the same side of the strip and they need to opposing each other? "
thats shouldnt be a problem.

grotbags · Jul 16, 2020

gddg said:
oke, something is not right i think.
I connected the 240H driver to the 4000k strips but i think they don't burn that bright and some of the 380nm and 405nm diodes seem to burn at different strength.

i also connected the strips to the 480H driver but they give the same light output as on the 240H driver.
i'm using potmeter 100k ohm + 10k ohm resistor and everything is wired through drok multimeter's V, W and A are the same on the multimeter when connected to the 480H driver and the 240H driver. I also disconnected the potmeter, turned the connections and left the resistor out, als connected direct to the driver's without the multimeter's but the burn the same

I's it possible that you can't connect the + and - on the same side of the strip and they need to opposing each other?

Maybe the multimeter's are broken but they are brand new

This is how i connected the 240H to the 4000k strips :

View attachment 4626056
This is on the 240H driver :
top meter is AC 100A 80-260V meter, middle and bottom are DC 20A 100V

View attachment 4626024

View attachment 4626039

first up, nice build.

the 380nm and 405nm wont appear as bright as the white diodes to your eye so that is normal. as for the whites not being as bright as you presumed they would be its hard to tell from the pic.

first thing i would do to trouble shoot this is remove the dimmers and leave the wires isolated this will run the drivers flat out. second i would bypass the volt/amp meters to see if thats your issue.

gddg · Jul 16, 2020

cobshopgrow said:
" 380nm and 405nm diodes seem to burn at different strength. "
thats normal, your eye is more sensitive to the 405nm then the 380.

I mean for example the second 4000k strip from te bottom, right strip this 405nm diode seems to put out way more light then the other 405nm diode's or is this just illusion?

cobshopgrow said:
the other strips have no uv?

the 20 x 3000k strips have 4x 660nm diode's per strip.

grotbags said:
the 380nm and 405nm wont appear as bright as the white diodes to your eye so that is normal. as for the whites not being as bright as you presumed they would be its hard to tell from the pic.

Oke maybe i expected too much, i only build cob frame's this is the first strip frame. when i turn on my cob's i almost get blinded by the light output. the strips looks very dimmish.

grotbags said:
first thing i would do to trouble shoot this is remove the dimmers and leave the wires isolated

This i already did but no difference unfortunately.

grotbags said:
second i would bypass the volt/amp meters to see if thats your issue.

i also did this but saw no difference between the light output when connected to the 240H vs the 480H, this i find very wierd.

what i find the wierdest is why the multimeter gives such a low amp and wattage and why the potmeter's won't work, same potmeter's on a cob frame work just fine.

cobshopgrow · Jul 16, 2020

so if i see right the 240w driver is just giving 7W on the strips?

the strips should blind you at 240W on the strips.
when the driver cant start the config he kinda go in to some safety mode it seems.
i connected by accident a wrong driver once who didnt had the voltage range needed, had been too low.
effect was that the panel was very very dim, maybe like yours.

that the 405 arent same intensity is another inidcator that the voltage is too low.
they will become more even when they get more voltage, there is some stray in prodcution of the leds, solder joints etc.

your 660nm on the the other strip are more like 2V, the UV are 3-4Vish.

to me it looks that your driver is simply missing a little voltage.
go for a 240 36 volt AB type and push it by the onboard screw.
Or maybe even better go for a 42V driver directly... or whatever will be needed, idk if the 4 are parallel or in series. would guess 2 in parallel each (?).
so then about 4V more, the 42V should do it.

gddg · Jul 16, 2020

cobshopgrow said:
so if i see right the 240w driver is just giving 7W on the strips?

Correct, i find it wierd because i believe you can’t even dim the driver lower then 10%

these strips are rated 36v om the cutter web site i believe! Wouldn’t They brake when running on 42v ?

SSK-1560ZGE-XX-2835CR Midpower Led Strip - Cutter Electronics

The SSK-1560ZGE-XX-2835CR Board has 100 leds spaced on 0.5mm pitch for beautiful blending and maximum utilisation of the PCB. Solderless terminations

www.cutter.com.au

buying different drivers would suck because i can’t return these unfortunately!

parallel wiring led strips without wago's?

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