Pandemic 2020

Saint Jimmy74 said:

Odd indeed. Like I said above I have the vax. Since then there has been a nagging regret. Not that I think it is harmful in anyway but I regret more being duped I think.

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Fogdog said:

Oh, you are one of those.

Ah, no. The lockdowns during the beginning of the pandemic were a necessary response to a novel virus, when we had no vaccine for it and little knowlege of it. It was from a family of viruses that included the very deadly SARS-1. The lockdowns and caps on economic activity during 2020 saved lives

In the US, we kept the economy going by forcing people to work -- "excluded workers". They did not have the same benefits that non-essential workers had. They had to go out and face the epidemic. I'm talking about the ag workers, the people working in food processing plants, warehouses, people checking at the groceries. They were forced into doing it and they died due to Covid at higher rates. Your premise would have made it worse. But we had very smart and knowledgeable medical experts to advise us, not mundanes like you. Many more are alive today because the US restricted social gatherings and required masks, social distancing, etc. Not to mention the nightmare that would have ensued had we kept our schools open.
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Fogdog said:

Oh, you are one of those.

Ah, no. The lockdowns during the beginning of the pandemic were a necessary response to a novel virus, when we had no vaccine for it and little knowlege of it. It was from a family of viruses that included the very deadly SARS-1. The lockdowns and caps on economic activity during 2020 saved lives

In the US, we kept the economy going by forcing people to work -- "excluded workers". They did not have the same benefits that non-essential workers had. They had to go out and face the epidemic. I'm talking about the ag workers, the people working in food processing plants, warehouses, people checking at the groceries. They were forced into doing it and they died due to Covid at higher rates. Your premise would have made it worse. But we had very smart and knowledgeable medical experts to advise us, not mundanes like you. Many more are alive today because the US restricted social gatherings and required masks, social distancing, etc. Not to mention the nightmare that would have ensued had we kept our schools open.

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It was necessary to address it for sure and some restrictions yes. Not destroy peoples lives. Long time family businesses gone forever, farms shut down. None of that matters because of a disease with a less than 1% mortality rate. I understand people died. It sucks but people die every fucking day.

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Fogdog said:

What were you duped into doing that you regret?

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HGCC said:

Eh, I do think it's a bit odd that it was deemed time to open back up and go back to normal when cases were still high and nothing seemed to have really changed on the ground. The restrictions became increasingly unpopular with both sides, so away they went. It is what it is, I lay blame at the feet of the Republicans for the piss drinking anti science that dominated the conversation and made better options impossible, but it was pretty sus how the narrative changed recently.

I think we should all wear masks and steal from big box stores...so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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National Governors Association Winter Meeting Opening News Conference

Governor Asa Hutchinson (R-AR), chair of the National Governors association, held a press conference to begin the NGA's Annual Winter Meeting in Washington, D.C. Joining Governor Hutchinson was Governor Jared Polis (D-CO). They discussed their priorities for the association, such as computer...

www.c-span.org

Saint Jimmy74 said:

Vaccine. I am now not so sure it was needed. But in the beginning we would surely die without it.

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

No. I am vaccinated. Like i said I switched camps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the numbers are inflated. With that being said, I know it is real and many have died. But if you take in consideration all the pre existing conditions and age of roughly 70% of these deaths then the actual number that died from JUST Covid 19 is dramatically reduced. Not belittling anyones death or loss. It was and still is a major over-reaction that destroyed local economies worldwide. And yes, Nefarious is the proper term to be used for the situation.

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

Vaccine. I am now not so sure it was needed. But in the beginning we would surely die without it.

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

I see it the other way around. If you have something killing you anyway then getting a cold is going to most likely do you in. This isn't new with Covid, just higher numbers. Say a man has HIV and dies of a cold. Was it because he had HIV that he died or because of the common cold? Your reasoning is flawed. Again. Caps for emphasis because everyone choses not to read this part. NOT SAYING IT ISN'T REAL. Just way over inflated. No where near as dangerous as we were led to believe.

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schuylaar said:

I posted around that time-mid February that the National Governors Association met with Biden and Polis came home telling us they decided even though my calculations put us at mid March for mask off. It was going to be mid February.

National Governors Association Winter Meeting Opening News Conference

Governor Asa Hutchinson (R-AR), chair of the National Governors association, held a press conference to begin the NGA's Annual Winter Meeting in Washington, D.C. Joining Governor Hutchinson was Governor Jared Polis (D-CO). They discussed their priorities for the association, such as computer...

www.c-span.org

I'm back to masking- I don't trust it..I've now seen with my own adult eyes what this country is willing to do to it citizens depending on who's in The Oval.

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

I see the same numbers everyone else does. I interpret them differently like a lot of others folks. You are only reading what you want to argue with. I never said it wasn't real. Quite the contrary. And the nefarious reasoning is simple. Follow the money. Shut down the small business and corporations make more money.

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Fogdog said:

I've stepped up my masking from cloth to N-95. The paradigm has shifted from people taking precautions to protect themselves and others to people only thinking of themselves. When everybody wore cloth masks, socially distanced, avoided public gatherings in enclosed spaces, most people were protected, including those at higher risk. Now, everybody just does what they want without regard of others. So, I wear a mask with higher protective value when out in public and continue to follow CDC safety guidelines. The epidemic is not over and won't be in our lifetime. I'm looking for good metrics to help decide when I can relax and when to tighten up my practices. I used to use new case rates in my state to guide me but that metric is no longer useful.

Sucks for people at higher risk that most people don't take better care.

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CunningCanuk said:

I won’t go inside a building with out a N-95 mask.

I think Budley’s guess at 2/3 people wearing them sounds about right for around here too, maybe half. Most of them are young but I’m surprised by the amount of older people that aren’t wearing them.

I find myself continually asking myself, how hard is it to wear a mask? Particularly if it saves lives.

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Fogdog said:

I've stepped up my masking from cloth to N-95. The paradigm has shifted from people taking precautions to protect themselves and others to people only thinking of themselves. When everybody wore cloth masks, socially distanced, avoided public gatherings in enclosed spaces, most people were protected, including those at higher risk. Now, everybody just does what they want without regard of others. So, I wear a mask with higher protective value when out in public and continue to follow CDC safety guidelines. The epidemic is not over and won't be in our lifetime. I'm looking for good metrics to help decide when I can relax and when to tighten up my practices. I used to use new case rates in my state to guide me but that metric is no longer useful.

Sucks for people at higher risk that most people don't take better care.

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CunningCanuk said:

And you came to this conclusion from all of your research and years of studying infectious diseases.

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printer said:

Hi, I was a rocket scientist, I really liked that period of my life.

We are all going to die, people with preexisting conditions have their life extended due to modern medicine, but they are going to die some day beyond the age where they would have without modern medicine. So what do we do with those extra years?

Maybe a better way of determining the amount killed by covid as the difference in all deaths for the year? Say if in a normal year 500k a year. And since they have the statistics of the cause of deaths, 50k for car accidents, 100k from heart attacks, then you can compare the number of deaths pre-covid to covid times. So if there is a 30% rise of heart attacks over the past two years then we would have to look for reasons for the increase. Would you say this is a good way to find out the true figure of the death rate attributed to covid?

Or would the increased number of people in ICU's and the increased number dying with preexisting conditions point to covid being the cause? Would it be a good idea to look at countries outside of the US where covid was not a political football for the two different political factions in the US? Canada has an equivalent health system to the US's. And during the pandemic our covid death numbers matched the US's. But unlike the US, there is no covid bonus paid for taking care of covid patients. The government pays for the care of people in hospital, precovid and during covid. So there is no advantage to inflate numbers. Actually it is in the government's interest to have smaller number of covid deaths showing the government has things under control. And yet our numbers track the US's numbers to a pretty good extent.

Now the economic fallout sucks. But if we did not take actions how many more deaths and long term illnesses would we accept before we thought we had to take drastic steps as we had? How about 50% over the 'inflated numbers'? Would that be acceptable? At what point do we say we have to do something? And seeing that our medical systems were overloaded during the peaks of the waves, how would an increased number of sick translated into deaths if they did not get the level of care that we manage for them?

So from your logic it seems that the old people should have accepted the sacrifice in order to keep the economy going. So how long should people expect to live to keep the economy going? 60 years, 70? 80? Most people these ages have preexisting conditions. Do the rest of society say, "well it sucks to be you?" And on only believing what us brainwashed sheep get fed from the news, I have spent much time following covid from government sources, medical papers, various sites tracking the virus. I have also spent time in and around ICU and Isolation rooms in a tertiary hospital (we had over 100 rooms for ICU/isolation patients) and converted wings to covid patient care as we did not have the number of beds to care for those sick with covid and keeping the patients isolated. I also talk with a hospital administrator in Sweden where they did not shut down their economy. I need to mention I did retire just previous to covid hitting but keep in touch with people I worked with in the hospital, the head of the hospital in Sweden, I got to know this last year and have heard what he thinks of the Sweden government's response to the pandemic (he was not pleased). So I have a little more to go on than the average person getting their news from news sources.

All that said, I think you are wrong.

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

Just like you

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Saint Jimmy74 said:

Just like you

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Fogdog said:

you came here for discussion, or so say.

Why do you think vaccines are not necessary?

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