Nitrogen toxicity - lockout

Nutty sKunK said:

Excess N requires more Mag as Jjgrow said. This chart is very good to know if problems arise.

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Fuck. That chart makes my head spin. Lmao

Wizzlebiz said:

Fuck. That chart makes my head spin. Lmao

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Mkay. Take 1 nutrient, say N. If the direction of the green arrow goes away from the nutrient it means it affects that nutrient. So N affects the uptake of Copper, Potassium and Boron. The black arrows mean when one nutrient is the high the other must be higher to compensate. So you need more magnesium with high N.

Appreciate the feedback gents. What i see now are 3 things 1) a bit of N toxicity 2) a bit of Mg deficiency and 3) beginnings of nute burn, leaf tips are looking a bit burnt. Yesterday she had 730ppm that dropped to 600 topped her up with water so shes down to about 530 now. Gonna give her a foliar with epsom salts hopefully that helps with the Mg deficiency but fuck man its hard to know what to do when shes showing signs of overfeeding (nute burnt tips, N toxicity) and underfeeding (Mg deficiency)
Cheers!

shiva71 said:

Appreciate the feedback gents. What i see now are 3 things 1) a bit of N toxicity 2) a bit of Mg deficiency and 3) beginnings of nute burn, leaf tips are looking a bit burnt. Yesterday she had 730ppm that dropped to 600 topped her up with water so shes down to about 530 now. Gonna give her a foliar with epsom salts hopefully that helps with the Mg deficiency but fuck man its hard to know what to do when shes showing signs of overfeeding (nute burnt tips, N toxicity) and underfeeding (Mg deficiency)
Cheers!

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Whats the temperature is the water?

shiva71 said:

Appreciate the feedback gents. What i see now are 3 things 1) a bit of N toxicity 2) a bit of Mg deficiency and 3) beginnings of nute burn, leaf tips are looking a bit burnt. Yesterday she had 730ppm that dropped to 600 topped her up with water so shes down to about 530 now. Gonna give her a foliar with epsom salts hopefully that helps with the Mg deficiency but fuck man its hard to know what to do when shes showing signs of overfeeding (nute burnt tips, N toxicity) and underfeeding (Mg deficiency)
Cheers!

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i think i recommended adding 1 gram per gallon water of Epsom salts? can't remember if i did. then drop your ppms to get rid of the N tox and nute burn but fix your Mg deficiency at the same time.

Onextremebuzz said:

Whats the temperature is the water?

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Tree Fiddy

Onextremebuzz said:

Whats the temperature is the water?

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Not sure about that, but ive done dwc in summer when the rez temps get really high so i know how that feels, i think the water temp is ok.

rkymtnman said:

i think i recommended adding 1 gram per gallon water of Epsom salts? can't remember if i did. then drop your ppms to get rid of the N tox and nute burn but fix your Mg deficiency at the same time.

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Ok great yeah i was thinking something similar. So after topping her up with water yesterday shes now at 500ppm (my water is about 170) should i lower it, then add the ES or just add it to whats in the bucket? Or do a rez change and add just the ES?
Cheers guys

shiva71 said:

Not sure about that, but ive done dwc in summer when the rez temps get really high so i know how that feels, i think the water temp is ok.

Ok great yeah i was thinking something similar. So after topping her up with water yesterday shes now at 500ppm (my water is about 170) should i lower it, then add the ES or just add it to whats in the bucket? Or do a rez change and add just the ES?
Cheers guys

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Well I just isolated the problem it's the temp swings from the lack of water cooler messing with the ph I'd get a cooler and maintain 65 degrees Fahrenheit

Also do you even know your ph because I asked for it twice now and you haven't responded. Invest in drops. Don't use those meters unless it's a TDS.

Onextremebuzz said:

Also do you even know your ph because I asked for it twice now and you haven't responded. Invest in drops. Don't use those meters unless it's a TDS.

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Sorry mate. Well that's what makes me think it's not a water temp issue, pH stable, 5.7 - 6.3. And when I use my ppm pen it gives temps, 18-20°c.

You can think all you want lol a quick Google says other wise. The problem is plain as day when the lights come on it heats the water up when they shut off it cools off. I wouldn't trust that temp reading on that TDs get another way to find out the fluctuations the temperature swings change the ph affecting what nutrients are available which is causing all the issues you just described.

Onextremebuzz said:

You can think all you want lol a quick Google says other wise. The problem is plain as day when the lights come on it heats the water up when they shut off it cools off. I wouldn't trust that temp reading on that TDs get another way to find out the fluctuations the temperature swings change the ph affecting what nutrients are available which is causing all the issues you just described.

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Ok thanks. I grow autos, Im running my lights 24/7, as do many auto growers. So there is no fluctuation in water temps. But might be time to change that to 20/4 or 18/6.

shiva71 said:

Not sure about that, but ive done dwc in summer when the rez temps get really high so i know how that feels, i think the water temp is ok.

Ok great yeah i was thinking something similar. So after topping her up with water yesterday shes now at 500ppm (my water is about 170) should i lower it, then add the ES or just add it to whats in the bucket? Or do a rez change and add just the ES?
Cheers guys

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when did you first notice tip burn? at roughly what ppm? go about 100 ppm lower with your base nutes, then add however many grams epsom salts and you'll be close to that value.

@Onextremebuzz appreciate the input man, yes of course having a stable rez temp will help, but if i understand you correctly youre saying the water temp affects pH, but my pH is stable which ultimately is all that matters. Ive probably done 7/8 dwc grows now, obviously my set up/skills arent perfect but of all the variables, light, ppm, pH etc...res temp has been the least of my issues, only in summer when its really hot its a problem, but one easily solved by a few 0.5l bottles of frozen water. Of course you should pay attention to res temps, but i dunno why you assume the temp sensor on my ec meter isnt reading correctly?

rkymtnman said:

when did you first notice tip burn? at roughly what ppm? go about 100 ppm lower with your base nutes, then add however many grams epsom salts and you'll be close to that value.

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Somewhere around 700. Will do a mix of base nutes + ES and aim for around 600. Cheers.

Onextremebuzz said:

Well that does work with over watered and nutrient burned plants in soil I said half the roots, lol then he mentioned he was using dwc, so first thing I asked was the water temperature and pH and if he had a chiller which the answer to chiller was no,

Because every one I ever owned has been out . And if you don't check with another one you just don't know.

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Ok fair enough, but if you do check with multiple devices, and they dont agree what then? I had a RH issue one summer. I had a reading on my dehumidifier, a digital hygrometer and an analogue hygrometer. All different. Which one was i supposed to believe? After multiple purchases I have a pH meter which seems to work (Essentials) and an EC meter that seems to work (Milwaukee), and thats that.

shiva71 said:

Ok fair enough, but if you do check with multiple devices, and they dont agree what then? I had a RH issue one summer. I had a reading on my dehumidifier, a digital hygrometer and an analogue hygrometer. All different. Which one was i supposed to believe? After multiple purchases I have a pH meter which seems to work (Essentials) and an EC meter that seems to work (Milwaukee), and thats that.

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I have milwaukee ec and ph meters. They are great.

shiva71 said:

Ok fair enough, but if you do check with multiple devices, and they dont agree what then? I had a RH issue one summer. I had a reading on my dehumidifier, a digital hygrometer and an analogue hygrometer. All different. Which one was i supposed to believe? After multiple purchases I have a pH meter which seems to work (Essentials) and an EC meter that seems to work (Milwaukee), and thats that.

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EC meters are good cheap or not it's the ph meters that go all wacky plus the temp readings on the ec meters are wacky. It's why I use other methods to test ph, like drops never gotta calibrate a drop kit.

Onextremebuzz said:

I am though, the op needs a water chiller if he wants an rdwc system or dwc system. As an experienced grower yourself I don't know why you wouldn't recommend the same thing, unless you don't have a water chiller then that would make sense. I got several chest freezers just sitting in the barn that I could turn anyone into a res if I wanted it's just a matter of ambition. You think I'm gonna pay a few hundred for a chiller when I can make one with the stuff I have on hand? Chiller is needed for results to be ideal it will also save you time and some headaches. I ain't got time to to baby sit a res.

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Yes in an ideal world id have a chiller, not disputing that. But i dont have the cash for one,and i dont have the skills to salvage one from a freezer. I used to have a cheap aquarium thermometer to measure the rez temps but ive managed ok without it. At peak summer like i said yes my rez get too hot but i just throw in freezer packs or frozen 0.5l coke bottles which work.

shiva71 said:

Yes in an ideal world id have a chiller, not disputing that. But i dont have the cash for one,and i dont have the skills to salvage one from a freezer. I used to have a cheap aquarium thermometer to measure the rez temps but ive managed ok without it. At peak summer like i said yes my rez get too hot but i just throw in freezer packs or frozen 0.5l coke bottles which work.

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Skills? Lol? There's a few forums on here about it. How hard can it be? Fill a chest freezer with water plug the freezer into the inkbird and then plug the ink bird into the wall. Take the thermostat probe and stick it in the water then put your pump in. Run the lines from the pump to the buckets back into the freezer. Set the temperature on the inkbird for 65°. Pretty simple. You don't even have to have a drill or anything. Maybe just basic plumbing skills like super basic.

From 500 she only dropped to 470 overnight but the rez level dropped a lot. I topped her up with water and added some epsom salts which brought me to about 530 but then made a bit of a mess getting the pH right and needed a lot of ph up/down so it ended up about 570. But the tip burn hasnt got any worse, the N toxicity hasnt got worse, she looks a bit happier today. Also got my timer going shes now on 20/4, i think she definitely needs some darkness.