Most Efficient LED Light

MildGro said:

Hey six, aside from all the math and shit, what's your real world opinion on the how much current needs to be pumped through 2 bars of 5 to meet or exceed the yield of a 1000w DE?

I'm seeing on these numbers on spreadsheets and calculators telling me I need 2.1A to make the same PPF as the ovens, but then you show me these tall monsters that are growing at @1050.

Not that I mind pumping the extra juice, it comes down to how many drivers I'm going to need. I'd rather not have to use three if I can use two you know what I mean.

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well you gotta take into account im using 15 lights over the space.if i only had 10 i would use 1750ma drivers or at least 1400ma.hgl240-c1750 will run 4 cree 3590 so unless you go up to the 320 series you will need 3 drivers for 10,might as well get 3 x 1750ma drivers and use 12 cobs on them,4 per driver.i just picked up some 1400ma drivers from rahz so ill be building those soon to compare against my 1050ma stuff. with the lower amps you just need to keep them closer together like 10 to 12 in on center.shit growmau5 killed it running them at 700ma.

sixstring2112 said:

well you gotta take into account im using 15 lights over the space.if i only had 10 i would use 1750ma drivers or at least 1400ma.hgl240-c1750 will run 4 cree 3590 so unless you go up to the 320 series you will need 3 drivers for 10,might as well get 3 x 1750ma drivers and use 12 cobs on them,4 per driver.i just picked up some 1400ma drivers from rahz so ill be building those soon to compare against my 1050ma stuff. with the lower amps you just need to keep them closer together like 10 to 12 in on center.shit growmau5 killed it running them at 700ma.

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Ah OK, I thought you only had 10 up there. That makes alot more sense then. My problem with using 15 is covering up this new room I'm working on. 50% more cobs starts to get a bit much when we get to larger rooms like 20 or 30 kw. Still looking for the sweet spot at that size.

MildGro said:

Ah OK, I thought you only had 10 up there. That makes alot more sense then. My problem with using 15 is covering up this new room I'm working on. 50% more cobs starts to get a bit much when we get to larger rooms like 20 or 30 kw. Still looking for the sweet spot at that size.

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Well for plants 4 feet tall or less 1400ma is the sweet spot.for plants 5 feet or taller i would use 1750ma spaced 14 in on center.would be awesome. Or course thats just my opinion, others will give completely dif answers.im @12 in on center and 1050ma and just over 4 feet tall,i had really nice dense nugs pretty much down to the soil.with a bit of thinning during week 2 like alot of growers do it would kickass at 1400ma.check out @Huygens grow log in this section.pretty fuckin badass.

sixstring2112 said:

Well for plants 4 feet tall or less 1400ma is the sweet spot.for plants 5 feet or taller i would use 1750ma spaced 14 in on center.would be awesome. Or course thats just my opinion, others will give completely dif answers.im @12 in on center and 1050ma and just over 4 feet tall,i had really nice dense nugs pretty much down to the soil.with a bit of thinning during week 2 like alot of growers do it would kickass at 1400ma.check out @Huygens grow log in this section.pretty fuckin badass.

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Awesome, thanks for the advice bro. Wow @ that driver closet in @Huygens thread tho.

churchhaze said:

From reading a few pages of this thread, it seems to me like your best option for now is to stay with DE thousies for now. I'd personally experiment with small (4x4) grows and COB builds, but economically, you're probably better off scaling with gavitas and coming back to the cobs in a year or 2.

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this argument can be made but only if you have existing infrastructure and are stretching out your investment. starting from scratch its not even close. maybe that argument held water 12-18 mos ago but now if you are even remotely technically inclined (as you should be if youre running warehouse sized operations), LED infrastructure has a better ROI than HPS and is gaining more of a lead every day.

HPS requires new bulbs at 0.05-0.10/W every 6-12 mos. we are not far away from the time when we treat cob chips like bulbs and youre not buying a new $0.10/W cob chip because you need to maintain efficiency,. youre buying it to get an additional 10% efficiency out of your current drivers and heatsinks (and recouping 0.02-0.05/W for that usable "old tech" chip you swapped out.

Stephenj37826 said:

@CobKits

what about Tj/Tc in the Cree tool? the Citi tool adjusts those numbers automatically as current goes up but I believe you need to manually adjust crees.

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right. why i feel its overly optimistic. cree is the most notorious chip for falling off at high currents. im not sold on the thermal capacity of the ceramic chip, i think this is where they lose ground at high currents, Tj-c is certainly on the upper range of flagship chips

Most efficient led light

SunCloak could actually easily be a DE replacement. This harvest was 2 pounds from only 600 watts. If i was to use all 3 bays instead of only 2, with 6 medium sized plants instead of 4, I'm pretty sure I would've gotten back 2.5 pounds or more.
I've heard of 2.75 pound yields from the owner at commercial facilities using 9 plants in 3 gall Potts.
Yeah, I'd deffinetly say the Cloak is the best Commercial led grow light for those w/o a plant count & especially commercial applications.

The Amare Pro-9 (900w) would be what I would use as the best led grow light for above lighting, high bay set-ups to directly replace 1200w DE. Although I have yet to experience using one. Just bought my first Pro-9 & will be doing a thread with PPFD mapping followed by a grow. Then I'll be able to speak from experience with the Pro-9. From what I've experienced using the Pro-4's & SE-450, I'm sure it will meet or exceed my expectations.

So, the SunCloak & Amare lights are what I would recommend to serious growers.

I know of a 21oz grow from 350w of Vero29g5 at .7 amps.

That's good, but obviously not the most efficient lamp. The most efficient will be lower current lamps based on Citizen and Vero-g7, at least unless/until Cree comes back with a winner.

I believe Gavita has an overpriced LED unit pushing 2.7 umol/j. That's a very high bar to beat, but it won't be long until there are similar offerings for better value

Rahz said:

I know of a 21oz grow from 350w of Vero29g5 at .7 amps.

That's good, but obviously not the most efficient lamp. The most efficient will be lower current lamps based on Citizen and Vero-g7, at least unless/until Cree comes back with a winner.

I believe Gavita has an overpriced LED unit pushing 2.7 umol/j. That's a very high bar to beat, but it won't be long until there are similar offerings for better value

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Is it Gavita or Hortilux Schrader/e papion. I think the Top Led has great numbers but i wonder what they cost?

Yield wise cxb3590 3500k in the maximizer has hit consistently 950 grams + on a single plant scrog on a 9/15 light cycle. I think the future will be replacing a 1200 watt DE with 300-400 watts overhead and 100-150 watts of intracanopy lighting.


Yep we are working on our own 2.6+ unit as well. I think we are all going to change the growing world and even if we all eventually go out of business we can smile and know we made a difference.

I think you're right. Phillips also has a commercial product in that range but apparently not something they advertise as there is little mention about it.

Stephenj37826 said:

I think we are all going to change the growing world and even if we all eventually go out of business we can smile and know we made a difference.

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We'll have to get more efficient if there is any hope for us. That's the long term reality because efficiency can only get so good. 10 years from now you might be able to pick up a 90% efficient light bulb at the supermarket. But yes, we can.

Rahz said:

I think you're right. Phillips also has a commercial product in that range but apparently not something they advertise as there is little mention about it.



We'll have to get more efficient if there is any hope for us. That's the long term reality because efficiency can only get so good. 10 years from now you might be able to pick up a 90% efficient light bulb at the supermarket. But yes, we can.

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Unfortunately we know yellow phosphor conversion utilizing royal blue has a limit. The next logical full spectrum step will be when mono reds hit 3.2+ umol/j @ a decent wattage. Until then I do feel system simplicity with higher cri yellow phosphor well be the choice for primary light situations.

What happened with remote phosphor? Transcend lighting is the only one I know of. Maybe it's to expensive to produce.

Hybridway said:

What happened with remote phosphor? Transcend lighting is the only one I know of. Maybe it's to expensive to produce.

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I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole lol. Legalities would kill you quickly. Also cost, system complexity, and the fact that it really isn't any better than phosphorus on die pretty much killed it out.

There are several companies fighting over who had it first.

Rahz said:

I think you're right. Phillips also has a commercial product in that range but apparently not something they advertise as there is little mention about it.

We'll have to get more efficient if there is any hope for us. That's the long term reality because efficiency can only get so good. 10 years from now you might be able to pick up a 90% efficient light bulb at the supermarket. But yes, we can.

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Innovation is the key.
Big companies move slow by their nature and thus struggle to innovate.
Small businesses are agile and responsive by their nature.
More than a few businesses started out of garages by hobbyists (not unlike the group here) have gone on to take out the incumbents in an industry.
And that's the truth, ain't just the durban poison speakin'

One 1200 DE replacement in the mail. Pro-9 coming soon.
And soon to be proven the best commercial led grow light available.
I'll post a link to the study once it's underway in Nov.
There is no regular cob lights in the experiment/competition as of yet.

Hybridway said:

One 1200 DE replacement in the mail. Pro-9 coming soon.
And soon to be proven the best commercial led grow light available.
I'll post a link to the study once it's underway in Nov.
There is no regular cob lights in the experiment/competition as of yet.

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is that the same comp that crowned KIND best light of 2016?
how about wait till you do some par testing before spreading your propaganda
you post this crap every chance you get how about keep in in your pants till you can prove it your clogging all the threads

Hybridway said:

And soon to be proven the best commercial led grow light available.
I'll post a link to the study once it's underway in Nov.

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Methodology? what controls?

KarmaPaymentPlan said:

is that the same comp that crowned KIND best light of 2016?
how about wait till you do some par testing before spreading your propaganda
you post this crap every chance you get how about keep in in your pants till you can prove it your clogging all the threads

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I know right. I totally suck! Lol!
AMARE BITCHES!
Best, most efficient led grow light ever made. How's that, you like it better.
Par testing smar testing. It's the highest anyways. What's the point?
It's not like any of these other lights can compare in par #s, spectrum, warranty.
So, why not brag about it?
Great results using Amare everywhere you look! Haha!
What do you grow with? Oh yeah, you said Kind! Good luck with that buddy!

CobKits said:

Methodology? what controls?

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It's a very scientific study that I'm not smart enough to explain. A bunch of equations n shit I could never repeat.
No plain cob lights entered though. Hu! Growing Tomatoes.

Hybridway said:

I know right. I totally suck! Lol!
AMARE BITCHES!
Best, most efficient led grow light ever made. How's that, you like it better.
Par testing smar testing. It's the highest anyways. What's the point?
It's not like any of these other lights can compare in par #s, spectrum, warranty.
So, why not brag about it?
Great results using Amare everywhere you look! Haha!
What do you grow with? Oh yeah, you said Kind! Good luck with that buddy!

It's a very scientific study that I'm not smart enough to explain. A bunch of equations n shit I could never repeat.
No plain cob lights entered though. Hu! Growing Tomatoes.

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pretty sure growmau5 has stumped your yields and has time to make great vids and help the community using straight cobs
wake up and smell the coffee freakin shill prove it rather then brag