lots of death for middle to lower leaves. newbie first timer

Hi RIU

So I am nearing end of the 4th week of flower and I can see buds growing and developing.

I have 7 girls in a Wilma 8 pot system in a 1.2m squared tent. This is an automated dripper system if you haven't seen one before. And I am using coco under a 600w hps.

6" fan pulling 420cfm hooked up to a 5" CF. (I have got a new 6" filter but I am finding it difficult to install it!)

I had put a scrog net over the girls before flipping and it is about 3ft high. The Wilma takes a foot aswell.

The problem is that I have got a lot of middle and lower leaves dying on me. It's really bad. I know towards the end of flower they should yellow and die but at this rate I am going to lose the majority now!

All of the death occurs under the scrog net as when I look up from underneath the light penetration is minimal.

The other thing is that I set my ph to 5.5 every 3 days, when I goto top up the reservoir it is always reading 6.3/6.4.

Will attach some pics now.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Here are some pics of what I am talking about.







And here are pics above the net.

View attachment 2944114



Thanks guys.


Sent from my HTC One 802d using the ROLLITUP app.

It's because you have dense foliage on top and that lower stuff isnt getting any light,so it just kind of decays and falls off. Some people trim off that undergrowth when they begin flower since it wont produce worthwhile bud. The plant looks happy up top though so it doesnt mean a deficiency or anything like that.

Cheers for your reply BustinScales510, I wasn't sure and reading up I've read that some people go the entire way without pulling off a single leaf! But it is dense up top and growth seems to be okay.

I think I might trim off these lower sites now then how about using some off these as clones? Or is it too late?

Definitely could use them for clones.

I'll try them and see what happens I guess!

looks ok, well as far as I can tell with the hps on. Try turning it off for some pics of those tops again, I would say when I start to lose a lot of leaves its usally n-deff. I have some super dence plants with leaves stacked on leaves on leaves... I have to cut them off as they are all green and healthy, some strains will shed a bit. n will cause the leaves starting at the bottom to turn yellow and fall off, next is the mid section fan leaves, after they go, its onto the tops, and smaller bud sites on the branches, they get lime green/ light green then turn yellow as the plant is sucking every bit of n from the cells. if the whole plants seem yellow im going with n-deff.

BustinScales510 said:

It's because you have dense foliage on top and that lower stuff isnt getting any light,so it just kind of decays and falls off. Some people trim off that undergrowth when they begin flower since it wont produce worthwhile bud. The plant looks happy up top though so it doesnt mean a deficiency or anything like that.

Click to expand...

Sorry bud, I got to disagree with your first and third sentence. There is a lot of controversy over de-foliating and some say it's the best, while others argue (ed Rosenthal) lower leaves that don't get direct light still have a purpose and function in different ways to provide the plant with energy. Yes cleaning up the bottom 1/2 will focus majority of the light on buds and you will get huge colas. However..... the best method, IMO, would be to properly train the plants growth by a means of opening it up for deep penetration and tucking fans. That is how you get minimal stretch and huge donkey dicks that start at the bottom. Brother I have pulled 2.5oz of a 16" Cluster Bomb by (Bomb seeds). And all I did was FIM, tuck and train. Plant loose leaves for a reason, 9 out of 10x's it's taking all stored reserves, or root disease.

every leaf they loose during the flowering period is that much less food and growing power, they're not focused on vegetative growth, thus overall vigor and size of yield suffers. I don't think the plants tops look happy at all. They're scared they are NEXT.

sativa indica pits said:

looks ok, well as far as I can tell with the hps on. Try turning it off for some pics of those tops again, I would say when I start to lose a lot of leaves its usally n-deff. I have some super dence plants with leaves stacked on leaves on leaves... I have to cut them off as they are all green and healthy, some strains will shed a bit. n will cause the leaves starting at the bottom to turn yellow and fall off, next is the mid section fan leaves, after they go, its onto the tops, and smaller bud sites on the branches, they get lime green/ light green then turn yellow as the plant is sucking every bit of n from the cells. if the whole plants seem yellow im going with n-deff.

Click to expand...

Exactly dude, turn off the HPS and lets get some white light. You'll see those plants for what they really are.

tikitoker said:

Sorry bud, I got to disagree with your first and third sentence. There is a lot of controversy over de-foliating and some say it's the best, while others argue (ed Rosenthal) lower leaves that don't get direct light still have a purpose and function in different ways to provide the plant with energy. Yes cleaning up the bottom 1/2 will focus majority of the light on buds and you will get huge colas. However..... the best method, IMO, would be to properly train the plants growth by a means of opening it up for deep penetration and tucking fans. That is how you get minimal stretch and huge donkey dicks that start at the bottom. Brother I have pulled 2.5oz of a 16" Cluster Bomb by (Bomb seeds). And all I did was FIM, tuck and train. Plant loose leaves for a reason, 9 out of 10x's it's taking all stored reserves, or root disease.

every leaf they loose during the flowering period is that much less food and growing power, they're not focused on vegetative growth, thus overall vigor and size of yield suffers. I don't think the plants tops look happy at all. They're scared they are NEXT.

Click to expand...

ed is a very good teacher, most of what I pratice has come from his words!! I must say training is the best way to leave every single leave on the plant and still make sure they get light. copper wire goes a long way, attach it to the branches with bread ties, now you can bend and shape your plant and branches in any direction and they stay like that. string and such only does so much. I have choped a plant at the 10th node cut bottom few branches for clones and grown the branches onto a wire frame for a few months. I had 3 plants taking up all 26+ sq.ft of my flower room. The first set of fan leaves were still on some of the plants that were close to 6 months old. I pulled over a qp off each of those plants under a 600. Buy the time they were done flowering they were like soild cube's of bud 2x2x 1foot thick. It looked really cool. I grow 98% of my plants like that still. the other 2 I just bend over and keep the central khola.

If I must cut any pesky leaves that pop right back up 15 min after tucking them, I will cut one or 2 blades, maybe cut the tips off a few, I never cut whole leaves offcopper wire attached to oppsite nodes ready for the frame soon. two leaves with the petioles grown together into one.

I actually found my first 13 point leaf the other day. Man I thought 11 was tops, nope 13 blades, I should just cut that one and put it into my grow bible, lol

Hi guys,

Here are some better pics, take a look and let me know.



Many thanks and Happy New Year!!

tikitoker said:

Sorry bud, I got to disagree with your first and third sentence. There is a lot of controversy over de-foliating and some say it's the best, while others argue (ed Rosenthal) lower leaves that don't get direct light still have a purpose and function in different ways to provide the plant with energy. Yes cleaning up the bottom 1/2 will focus majority of the light on buds and you will get huge colas. However..... the best method, IMO, would be to properly train the plants growth by a means of opening it up for deep penetration and tucking fans. That is how you get minimal stretch and huge donkey dicks that start at the bottom. Brother I have pulled 2.5oz of a 16" Cluster Bomb by (Bomb seeds). And all I did was FIM, tuck and train. Plant loose leaves for a reason, 9 out of 10x's it's taking all stored reserves, or root disease.

every leaf they loose during the flowering period is that much less food and growing power, they're not focused on vegetative growth, thus overall vigor and size of yield suffers. I don't think the plants tops look happy at all. They're scared they are NEXT.

Click to expand...

So I have left it as it is, cleaning leaves that have only fallen off and the ones that aren't looking to great I have simply tucked in.

I have literally tucked in as many as I can to allow penetration.

9/10 times its what? The many leaves that have fallen off were more brown than green, I'd be more concerned if fresh green leaves were falling off.