Long time synthetic grower switching to organic grow, thoughts?

VILEPLUME said:

I have some 1-month-old clones that are in small pots that I want to transplant into new pots. They were grown with synthetic nutes, but I'd like to try them with organic nutes for veg and bloom.

I'll be using 80% coco 20% hp promix. Then mixing in the recommend per litre or soil gia green 4-4-4, worm casings, dry molasses and dried sea kelp. De-chlorinate tap water with a water stone for 24hr. PH water to 6.6-6.8 so the good bacteria in the soil doesn't die using baking soda to raise or white vinegar to lower PH.

After 3 weeks switch to bloom cycle and top dress with 50% gia green 4-4-4 and 50% gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Top dress again after week 3 and week 6 with gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Up until week 9 just give water at PH 6.6-6.8.

Thoughts? My goal is to keep it as simple as possible without making compost teas unless there is an emergency deficiency.

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You can use cocoloco. It's already loaded with enough to get you about 3 weeks past the last transplant. Then topdress w giagreen or happfrog dry ammendment.every 3 weeks. Water as you would soil. Nothing else needed. Easiest way in the world to get fat buds. Works perfect for me every time.

I miss Subcool.

I hope his plants in weed heaven are making him happy.

Kalebaiden said:

I miss Subcool.

I hope his plants in weed heaven are making him happy.

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I miss him to. Never met the guy but our attitudes and personalities are so much a like. He's very much an inspiration to me.

What do you guys think about this video in regards to making super soil? Also, are fabric pots a must for living soil? And he said organics takes longer to grow too, is that true? If so, how many more weeks in bloom does it take?

VILEPLUME said:

What do you guys think about this video in regards to making super soil? Also, are fabric pots a must for living soil? And he said organics takes longer to grow too, is that true? If so, how many more weeks in bloom does it take?

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That video looked like somebody who didn't grow read a couple mediocre articles on "Super Soil" and then made a video. He talks about the basic ideas, but there is no real recipe and dude just seems to assume everything will go OK with no hiccups.

Fabric pots are 100% Not mandatory. They're just cheap and easy to get, for the size. A ten or 15 talon smart pot is like half the price of a plastic pot that size. If you do use fabric pots, I would Not use those pot risers to elevate the fabric pots above the saucer or tray. I would sit the pot right in the tray and allow the pot to soak up any run-off water. Like bottom -watering.

Dirt might take just a little longer than hydro to get rooted and established in Veg. So the actual flowering period doesn't take any extra time, it may just take an extra week or two to get to flower.

i personally wouldnt invest a bunch of money in super soil right off the bat. you might end up not enjoy the process of growing that way. It is much slower comparted to synthetic soilless, but the end result is very much worth it in my opinion. The other thing you really have to consider is bugs and how to deal with them. Its just fact that bugs can me much more of an issue with soil grows compared to soilless or hydro. theres just no way around it. I'm assuming you already have the gaia green?

FRICKITYFRICKTYFRESH said:

i personally wouldnt invest a bunch of money in super soil right off the bat. you might end up not enjoy the process of growing that way. It is much slower comparted to synthetic soilless, but the end result is very much worth it in my opinion. The other thing you really have to consider is bugs and how to deal with them. Its just fact that bugs can me much more of an issue with soil grows compared to soilless or hydro. theres just no way around it. I'm assuming you already have the gaia green?

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Yeah, im in it now. I have a medical grow and everyday its ph, ppm the rezzy. Then pour enough nute water in so some drains the salt, empty the trays, then maybe empty them again.

I thought about hydro but again with the ppm and ph all the time, then flush each week. Plus most hydro set ups you can't move the pots around like soil.

I know it will take a bit to nail the soil just right but I view it as less future work. I have a planted aquarium that I'm also balancing so that I'll never have to do water changes on it. I think the 2 are similar in that regard. Nature always has a balance and its up to us to find that balance to make it work.

and in my opinion, adding a bunch of extra perlite and coco into a super soil mix really defeats the purpose, it holds zero nutrients and is just going to flush out the good stuff in your mix much faster. Obviously you need some aeration in the soil, but i don't think adding anything extra than what already comes in quality pre mixed bags is worth it. this past grow i used nothing but a mix of fox farms happy frog/ocean forest, EWC's, organic dry nutes, and some molasses for tea's every couple of weeks. I'm still new to all of this as well, but having amazing results. I've already sampled some of my upcoming harvest and I just feel that the buzz and type of high that comes off organically grown cannabis is so much cleaner and enjoyable.

FRICKITYFRICKTYFRESH said:

and in my opinion, adding a bunch of extra perlite and coco into a super soil mix really defeats the purpose, it holds zero nutrients and is just going to flush out the good stuff in your mix much faster. Obviously you need some aeration in the soil, but i don't think adding anything extra than what already comes in quality pre mixed bags is worth it. this past grow i used nothing but a mix of fox farms happy frog/ocean forest, EWC's, organic dry nutes, and some molasses for tea's every couple of weeks. I'm still new to all of this as well, but having amazing results. I've already sampled some of my upcoming harvest and I just feel that the buzz and type of high that comes off organically grown cannabis is so much cleaner and enjoyable.

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Oh yeah. I'm not adding any extra perlite besides what is already in the promix. I'm using 20% coco mainly because I have do much of it that I need to use up.

I understand the first run will have problems but as long as I prepare and have compost teas for ba kup, I should be ok.

VILEPLUME said:

I have some 1-month-old clones that are in small pots that I want to transplant into new pots. They were grown with synthetic nutes, but I'd like to try them with organic nutes for veg and bloom.

I'll be using 80% coco 20% hp promix. Then mixing in the recommend per litre or soil gia green 4-4-4, worm casings, dry molasses and dried sea kelp. De-chlorinate tap water with a water stone for 24hr. PH water to 6.6-6.8 so the good bacteria in the soil doesn't die using baking soda to raise or white vinegar to lower PH.

After 3 weeks switch to bloom cycle and top dress with 50% gia green 4-4-4 and 50% gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Top dress again after week 3 and week 6 with gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Up until week 9 just give water at PH 6.6-6.8.

Thoughts? My goal is to keep it as simple as possible without making compost teas unless there is an emergency deficiency.

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@VILEPLUME I have some advice for you as an organic grower.
Avoid Coco with amended super soils. Cocos positive Cations are annoying and bind alot of minerals and especially Phosphorus.
Just use the HP Promix (high porosity) and amend it with some humus material like compost and worm castings.
The molasses I would argue should be used in a tea as plants can't take up sugars and it's more for the micros, protozoa, fungi etc.
why the Sea kelp? I use Gaia green exclusively for my dry amendments and it is just fine by itself...read the packing...
Seakep, azomite, rock phosphate etc. I would add the seakelp again to a compost tea.

I strongly suggest adding some crushed oyster shells and gypsum to this. As you know our beloved fruit producing annual uses an abundance of.

Good luck and enjoy the smoke. Huge improvements in smoke and flavor will be noticed.
When comparing my organics to friends hydro. The difference is apparent.

Dabbie McDoob said:

@VILEPLUME I have some advice for you as an organic grower.
Avoid Coco with amended super soils. Cocos positive Cations are annoying and bind alot of minerals and especially Phosphorus.
Just use the HP Promix (high porosity) and amend it with some humus material like compost and worm castings.
The molasses I would argue should be used in a tea as plants can't take up sugars and it's more for the micros, protozoa, fungi etc.
why the Sea kelp? I use Gaia green exclusively for my dry amendments and it is just fine by itself...read the packing...
Seakep, azomite, rock phosphate etc. I would add the seakelp again to a compost tea.

I strongly suggest adding some crushed oyster shells and gypsum to this. As you know our beloved fruit producing annual uses an abundance of.

Good luck and enjoy the smoke. Huge improvements in smoke and flavor will be noticed.
When comparing my organics to friends hydro. The difference is apparent.

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Thanks for your reply.

I noticed the gaia green 444 comes with gypsum, do you suggest I add more? Ill take a look at buying some oyster shells. Will the flour kind work?

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks for your reply.

I noticed the gaia green 444 comes with gypsum, do you suggest I add more? Ill take a look at buying some oyster shells. Will the flour kind work?

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I prefer dolomitic lime for the source but oyster flour would work just as well.

I can't remember why but I read something about gypsum and it made me look at alternatives.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks for your reply.


I noticed the gaia green 444 comes with gypsum, do you suggest I add more? Ill take a look at buying some oyster shells. Will the flour kind work?

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@Kalebaiden I also use dolomite lime to stabilize my ph for composted super soils. However, it is not as rapidly bioavailable as oyster shell flour. It also has a dramatic effect on alkalinity, so I use it more outdoors.

@Vilplume Keep in mind that it is contained within the 4-4-4 but not in large amounts that your plants will utilize. Typically what I do with gypsum is add 2 TBSP per 5 gallon container at beginning of each cycle (vege/flower).

Yes, Oyster Shell Flour is what your looking for. You literally cannot overdose this stuff. It is impossible as you know Ca+ has available valence electrons thus it rapidly forms isomers and locks out. I use 1 TBSP per gallon every 3 weeks.

I also suggest adding azomite 2 TBSP per 5 gal at beginning of each phase for trace minerals.

Remember, NPK is a theory of plant metabolism not gospel and other elements play a vitalrole in overall plant health.

Sounds like your on the right track!

Dabbie McDoob said:

@Kalebaiden I also use dolomite lime to stabilize my ph for composted super soils. However, it is not as rapidly bioavailable as oyster shell flour. It also has a dramatic effect on alkalinity, so I use it more outdoors.

@Vilplume Keep in mind that it is contained within the 4-4-4 but not in large amounts that your plants will utilize. Typically what I do with gypsum is add 2 TBSP per 5 gallon container at beginning of each cycle (vege/flower).

Yes, Oyster Shell Flour is what your looking for. You literally cannot overdose this stuff. It is impossible as you know Ca+ has available valence electrons thus it rapidly forms isomers and locks out. I use 1 TBSP per gallon every 3 weeks.

I also suggest adding azomite 2 TBSP per 5 gal at beginning of each phase for trace minerals.

Remember, NPK is a theory of plant metabolism not gospel and other elements play a vitalrole in overall plant health.

Sounds like your on the right track!

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Thank you for your reply.

To clarify, when using mostly promix, i should add oyster shell flour because the dolomite lime in promix isn't enough Ca?

Also i should buy more gypsum and add that to my mix?

Thanks.

IMO look up coots mix or a build a soil recipie online if unfamiliar with living soil. This route will be your ultimate success on a first organic grow with some decent research going in thats at this point ALL over the net.

. When useing a mix like this never overlook the compost portion. Cheap vermicompost or composted cow manure is not the same as a worm bin started with high quality compost and fed on a specific diet to be used as you 1/3rd compost portion. Or as a quality bagged compost like malibu or oly mountain fish compost. Shit in equals shit out. Keep in mind im not saying promix, coco and this that or the other won't work but a proven mix that has been established for years is a much safer bet when you have not been down the road before.

I am on my 6th or 7th run in some of my coots mix and my soil life is booming and my worms I introduced all that time back are happy as ever. Remember spending in the beginning is normal and you are making a long term investment! My first run in coots mix i pulled over 2 elbows with medium yielding genetics, 4 plants in a 4x4 under a se1000 hps, 30 gallon smart pots yearssss ago! There is many here who use coots mix or a variation of it with there twist they have added over the years getting similar results consistently as well. Some very talented growers here on riu!

Happy growing!

I see alot on soil but I might have missed the difference between synthetic and organic. If so disregard this short post.

The biggest difference I see between my organic grows and other people's synthetic grows is speed of growth.

Synthetic nutrients is fertilizer, creating fast growth and monster buds.

Organic nutrients is more like growing with the speed dial on medium, it will speed up after awhile and as it goes on it dials down to a medium slow speed later on as the nutrition gets eaten by the microbial life. This is why a tea or nutrition of some sort is beneficial.

Since you're doing a super soil with light boosting feeds/teas on occasion, don't expect the rapid and monster growth you would normally see with the synthetic nutrients.

Don't get discouraged by a slower rate of growth. The final product after a good long cure will blow your mind.

I'm growing in amended soil, using organic nutrients and have been for years. Thanks to Covid, I might have to switch to synthetic this year but for now I'm still organic.

Dabbie McDoob said:

@VILEPLUME I have some advice for you as an organic grower.
Avoid Coco with amended super soils. Cocos positive Cations are annoying and bind alot of minerals and especially Phosphorus.
Just use the HP Promix (high porosity) and amend it with some humus material like compost and worm castings.
The molasses I would argue should be used in a tea as plants can't take up sugars and it's more for the micros, protozoa, fungi etc.
why the Sea kelp? I use Gaia green exclusively for my dry amendments and it is just fine by itself...read the packing...
Seakep, azomite, rock phosphate etc. I would add the seakelp again to a compost tea.

I strongly suggest adding some crushed oyster shells and gypsum to this. As you know our beloved fruit producing annual uses an abundance of.

Good luck and enjoy the smoke. Huge improvements in smoke and flavor will be noticed.
When comparing my organics to friends hydro. The difference is apparent.

Click to expand...

How often do you top dress in flower and how big are your pots?

Hey, congrats on the switch to organics! You will definitely get higher terpene % and hopefully like your finished product more. If it doesn’t work at first don’t get discouraged. Try again. I suggest keeping a journal, even if it’s very simple so you what you do wrong AND right. You’ll thank yourself later.
A while back I switched from salts to Organics and I will just give you my advice and ideas. Take what you want and leave the rest. I am by no means the supreme organic authority.
So previously mentioned, I would also use 80% promix and 20% coco. When I switched I tried for a few rounds in coco. It was OK, but when I switched to a promix super soil style it was way better.


I would also put a top dress on at the flip, then at the beginning of week 3, 5, and 6. I’m not sure how big of a pot you’re using, but the reason being on this 1st run you’re not going to want to run out of nutrients. The most common thing I see people do in their 1st organic try is underfeed and jump back to liquid nutes and never go back to Organics again. Since you can reuse your soil now, you can’t really put in too much organic amendments (within reason)

For your last week I would not pH your water. I’m guessing it comes out high between 7-8? Just bubble it to get rid of chlorine or chloramines and water in (if it’s high pH) and watch the awesome fade.

I know you said you want it simple, but I would really suggest at least a couple easy compost teas. I actually only do an easy worm tea for mybplants snd soil. They love it. I’d do week 1and 5, or 2 and 6.

Your plan seems great. I just wanted to throw in my 2¢. Good luck. Post some photos so we can see your progress!

VILEPLUME said:

How often do you top dress in flower and how big are your pots?

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My pots are 5 gal. and I top dress week 1 and 3 for 8 week strains and again at week 6 for 10 week strains.
3 cups worm castings, 2 TBSP Gypsum, 4 TBSP oyster shell flour, 4 TBSP Gaia Green power bloom.
Sometimes I pre-mix the top dressings in recycled cat litter containers, saves time.

@Jamp Has some great points. I suggest sticking with it.