less regs = booming buisness

NoDrama said:
OSHA is the responsible party for the inspection of the plant in Texas.

OSHA is not a state run agency, its FEDERAL AGENCY.

Egg on your face.

Don't forget that the EPA also has some oversight.



Accidents happen, while it may be easy to say that all accidents can be prevented, in all actuality they cannot.

Is it fun to point fingers at people who are not responsible? Or is that just a tactic used to mitigate your own feelings of jealousy towards a state doing much better than your own?
Click to expand...

Followed the comment sections on all the articles about this incident, and many republican types point out the eps/osha angle, while forgetting to point out that the republican party has done everything in their power over the last 20 years to limit the funding and power of the epa, cant really speak to osha, but given given the republicans aversion to regulating anything other than morals, Its a safe bet they haven't been too empowering as far as Osha goes
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Wow, you couldn't be any more wrong. OSHA used to come in annually and inspect the photo lab and storage area in the camera shop I managed back in the day. Fire Marshals inspected us regularly as well, but the OSHA visits were always unannounced. Not sure why you directed your abject stupidity at my post, I was just commenting on ND outing them as Feds. But, I'm always happy to point out you know nothing about that which you speak.
Click to expand...

You're both correct. OSHA conducts random inspections, true, but OSHA also gets involved when there's an accident, tip, or complaint. The most sure way to get an OSHA inspection is to have a fatal accident at your plant.

There's a disparity in OSHA service across the states because there's a federal OSHA program and there are state OSHA programs. Some of the state programs are better funded than the federal program, meaning that they have more people and can conduct inspections more frequently. So one person's OSHA experience may not reflect experiences nationwide.
 
ChesusRice said:
Bet you dollars to donuts a ex employee reported an unsafe work condition and that is why your employer got the visits.
Now lets get back to what you are trying to argue. That things will be better without OSHA.

Dont think so
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I knew someone who worked for OSHA when I was in government. They went into the field to conduct unannounced inspections every single day.
 
PurpleLorax said:
Followed the comment sections on all the articles about this incident, and many republican types point out the eps/osha angle, while forgetting to point out that the republican party has done everything in their power over the last 20 years to limit the funding and power of the epa, cant really speak to osha, but given given the republicans aversion to regulating anything other than morals, Its a safe bet they haven't been too empowering as far as Osha goes
Click to expand...

Congressional Republicans are promising to scrub the government for what they say are "job killing" regulations. One of their primary targets is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, or OSHA.
Republicans say OSHA enacts expensive rules without regard to their effect on business. They've proposed cutting its budget this year by 20 percent, a reduction the director says would be devastating to the agency's efforts to protect worker safety.
OSHA has long been on the front edge of the divide between labor and management, and Democrats and Republicans. Where during the Bush administration the agency stressed voluntary compliance with worker safety standards on the part of business, the Obama administration stepped up enforcement. It hired more inspectors and increased OSHA's budget.
Now, Republicans in control of the House are trying to push the pendulum back. As part of their drive to cut about $61 billion from federal spending in the current fiscal year, they've targeted OSHA for a $99 million reduction.

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/01/134177079/GOP-Looks-To-Make-Cuts-At-OSHA
 
MuyLocoNC said:
You've gone an done it now. You just had to give them ammo, didn't you? Now, we'll have to listen to some administration crony tell us that the plant explosion was a result of "THE SEQUESTRATION". Dun-Dun-Duuuuh (que scary music) Add it to the list. Pointless cancellation of White House tours, intentional and needless delaying of flights, Obama's mother in law getting kicked to the curb and his chef getting the boot isn't getting it done, damnit. We need to let these fuckers know you don't make cuts to our budget.
Click to expand...
Cancel the next White House concert/party.
 
ginjawarrior said:
meh gods a useless fuckwit.

but yeah im more than happy that our safety regulations raises our standards above 3rd world countries like Bangladesh or texas
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I'd take another look at that as stringent safety regulations and oversight prevent explosions and loss of life...
 
"At least seven different state and federal agencies can regulate Texas fertilizer plants like the one in West: OSHA, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, the Texas Department of State Health Services, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality and the Texas Feed and Fertilizer Control Service."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/28/whe...the_texas_fertilizer_plant_explosion_partner/

Damn if we could have only had 10 more agencies inspecting the plant it wouldn't have blown up (sarcasm).


 
lifegoesonbrah said:
"At least seven different state and federal agencies can regulate Texas fertilizer plants like the one in West: OSHA, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, the Texas Department of State Health Services, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality and the Texas Feed and Fertilizer Control Service."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/28/whe...the_texas_fertilizer_plant_explosion_partner/

Damn if we could have only had 10 more agencies inspecting the plant it wouldn't have blown up (sarcasm).

The fertilizer facility may have been exempt from some forms of OSHA scrutiny, owing to the fact that it's a small employer. Due to a rider that has been attached by Congress to agency funding for years, OSHA can't perform certain inspections of workplaces that have 10 or fewer employees and whose industries have low injury rates. Lawmakers reason that small businesses shouldn't have to shoulder the same costs of compliance as larger ones.
As of Friday night, the Labor Department was still trying to determine whether the West Fertilizer plant actually deserved a small-business exemption. (So far, the majority of confirmed dead were firefighters and first responders, not employees.)
Click to expand...

Anything else you wish to blather on about? Maybe we should just deregulate business completly
(sarcasm)
 
The Texas Department of State Health Services requires companies to file an annual inventory of all chemicals being stored at a facility. The inventories are called Tier Two reports and are required so that fire departments and emergency management officials will know what they are dealing with when there is a problem at a particular facility.
Local 2 Investigates obtained seven years worth of these reports filed by West with the state. The reports show West never reported it was storing ammonium nitrate at the plant until 2012. That report showed it was certified by a plant official in February of 2013 and indicated West was storing 270 tons, or 540,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate in "Container Type: R." According to state codes of container types "R" is the designation for "other."
Department officials told Local 2 they have no record of an on-site audit being conducted of the Tier Two reports filed by West or any record of violations against the company.
"While we don’t have authority over the types, amounts or locations of chemicals, in some cases we audit the report and go on-site to ensure that what the facility reported is accurate," Department spokesperson Carrie Williams wrote in an email to Local 2. "Our priority, however, is on facilities that don’t report and getting them into compliance with the reporting requirement."
Yet, Local 2 uncovered a 2006 application for a permit filed with a different agency, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality, in which West did list ammonium nitrate as one of several fertilizers it handled on the property.
West's application to the TCEQ, dated October 31 2006, listed it had a "maximum annual through put" of 2400 tons, or 4.8 million pounds of ammonium nitrate. The application was filed by West when officials with TCEQ discovered the company was operating without a permit after it's "grandfather" exemption lapsed. TCEQ officials reported finding this problem after receiving a citizen complaint about a strong smell of ammonia.
TCEQ records show at that time West applied for and was eventually granted two air permits; one for anhydrous ammonia tanks and one for the "material loading and storage of dry fertilizer materials."
The records provided to Local 2 by the TCEQ relating to the permitting process outlined conditions the company must follow to comply with state air emission standards. The TCEQ records provided to Local 2 did not address any potential fire or explosive hazards at the plant.
What is unclear from the documents filed with both the TCEQ and DSHS is whether West stopped handling ammonium nitrate for a period time and then resumed.
However, in 2006 West did not list ammonium nitrate on its Tier Two report, even though it did list the company handled this chemical on its permit application to the TCEQ that same year.
The Office of the Texas State Chemist does issue permits to companies handling ammonium nitrate. The head of the Office, Dr. Tim Herman, told Local 2 those permits are issued after a facility is checked to ensure it meets the requirements "relating to security and sale of ammonium nitrate as well as requirements that records of sale be maintained."
Herman said a check of whether facilities are meeting these requirements is conducted annually.
However, Herman said state law prohibits him from publicly disclosing whether West, or other similar facilities, passed this safety check and received a permit.
Herman added that his Office does not have the training nor regulatory oversight to pursue potential fire or other explosive safety concerns at a facility handling ammonium nitrate. Herman said his office is mainly tasked with checking that a facility is selling fertilizer with the proper amount of nutrients.
 
When I heard about this my first thought was this can't be the first fertilizer factory to explode. If it was, we've been beating the human error odds. Sometimes shit happens.
 
As long as we tax payers fork over more taxes for more alphabet agencies we can have just as much shit happen, but less money in our pockets.

With 6 agencies having oversight, but none doing their damn job apparently and we have one individual who believes even more agencies that don't do a damn thing will prevent any future occurrences of anything bad ever happening again.

Jeezus Cheezus, will you ever learn?
 
lifegoesonbrah said:
Maybe we should blame Texas more for OSHA (Sarcasm). Good thing the 6 other agencies did safety inspections (sarcasm).
Click to expand...

The Republicans got them a exemption for many inspections and they didnt "self Report" as required in regards to the ammonium nitrate for years. Yes you can thank Bush for that. Now lets go back and argue for deregulation of business is a good thing mmkay.
 
Well, this stuff blows up all over. Fireworks in NC, Grain silo explosions, trains.

Since I hate all sides beyond where any equality matters, i see all sides get political play no matter what. At least here we limit that by boredom and inattention, to only 2 sides of identical gray scales.

Now, I'm sure to some, the caliber of workers they hire seem like rocket scientists......HA! :) Have they said yet what happened or if an inspection would have helped?

Give them FAA type inspections or maybe TSA?

How about all the effort of the terror watch list, type inspection? Oh, yeah, food safety inspections? That's a 100%...not.

To me this has become so simple, I feel I could share a bowl with Tom Jefferson. There are only two choices.

Try self rule or not. We can either over regulate ourselves to death or under regulate ourselves to death.

But, it is us doing it to US. Blame the Governor is correct. Just another specialist with a big job, fail.
 
ChesusRice said:
The Republicans got them a exemption for many inspections and they didnt "self Report" as required in regards to the ammonium nitrate for years. Yes you can thank Bush for that. Now lets go back and argue for deregulation of business is a good thing mmkay.
Click to expand...


Leave it to a liberal to blame bush for a fertilizer plant explosion in 2013.
 
So the owner of the plant didn't report something he is required to, but let's blame a lack of regulations for his fuck up.

Got it.

6 oversight agencies and none caught him. Good work guys. Glad I'm paying your salary.

I will say this:

I have a lot of dealings with TDSHS, and boy are they understaffed. At least as far as what they do in regards to my field.

We have 3 inspectors for my region which includes DFW. they cannot make it to every abatement in the area. I personally know many air techs that have never met with an inspector and they have been doing this for a long time(I'm in the asbestos industry).
 
lifegoesonbrah said:
Leave it to a liberal to blame bush for a fertilizer plant explosion in 2013.
Click to expand...
Under Bush a Policy of "self" reporting for OSHA and other agencys came into being. Heres more

West Fertilizer had not been inspected in the past five years, and in fact only six Texas fertilizer plants were inspected in that time in part because the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is understaffed due to Republican’s habit of cutting regulatory agencies to “get government out of the way” that in West Fertilizer’s case posed a possible threat to national security. Republican’s austerity and sequester cuts hit regulatory agencies especially hard, and OSHA is slated to cut 8.2% of its staff and make at least 1,200 fewer workplace safety inspections this year. The Republican budget sought to reduce funding to OSHA’s budget by $99 million while slashing other workplace protection agencies as part of their “getting government out of the way” crusade. If OSHA had made regular inspections of the fertilizer plant, safety precautions and Department of Homeland Security planning may have prevented the explosion.
http://www.politicususa.com/texas-fertilizer-plant-owners-hid-info-prevented-explosion.html
 
NoDrama said:
They didn't change any of the regulations concerning the plant, soooooo.......

Texas is doing better than most states, that fact cannot be denied. Mostly small businesses, as more regulation kills small business but helps big business get rid of competition.

Perry's position is rock solid from my viewpoint. Nothing he did or didn't do has anything to do with the plant exploding. The plant did not explode because small business is booming, it exploded because Federal Regulators cannot do their jobs correctly. Nothing new there, federal regulators have never been able to do jack shit, thats why accidents happen and cannot be avoided, thats why the financial collapse happened, why wars happen, etc etc etc. Government is nothing more than a giant FAILURE at anything it puts its finger on.
Click to expand...

wow chicken hawk assertion man



osha is the regulators, they come in after the problems start, as their standards are what is being undermined, it is up to locals to make sure that they are doing shit right, not the people who tell them what they have done wrong

perrys job is to protect texas interest not make it seem like the greatest place around for not caring about fed standards, that keep people safer and limit the destructive force of accidents

wow you really do just like to talk, no dic.... i mean NoD

responsibility falls on local, fed reg sets the standard and gives out warning s and violations in the form of taxs and fines, nothing more

what an asshat you are NoD..........its up to the feds to force the less regulation asshats to do what the national standards suggest, what a farce, its up the company, ie the identity of the cooperation to work within safety guidelines, not only once they get cought ....fucking 3 steps back and a donkey show then one step forward
 
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