LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

mipainpatient

Active Member
so what you want is a PAR meter, (see my earlier post for a pdf on PAR meter comparisons---pitfalls ahead sorry to say) and honestly, I think the cheapest "PAR" meters at our disposal are (our) plants. I've got some spinach tests going cuz they are fast and I plan on eating em alive anyways :)
Strawberries are next
MPP
 
You morons, that ultrawave bulb is THE SAME BULB as the florasun, procolor, aquaglo, plant grow. If you buy this ultrawave bulb YOU WILL SEE THAT IT IS PINK. This place REALLY is full of idiots and morons. Unbelievable!
You stupid morons that is a pink bulb, you people really have no clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find your ideas interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 

Arabic

Well-Known Member
Lumens are more than what just humans see, I've got a light meter I can hold under my 1000w HPS and it'll read 150k lumens, like advertised. It's nothing special either.. and I'm aware that this is better quality light but if it isn't outputting enough lumens (8 bulb t5 with 6500k is 40k lumens, if these are 3k instead of 5k then that means theres only 24k lumens on an 8 bulb fixture. then that would explain some people having bad results....
 
A lot of things could explain some people's bad results. Maybe a lot of people are growing that special strain that refuses to grow under metal halides, lol.

I have NEVER seen a plant that refuses to grow under 6500K lights alone. The OG has been about 4 times harder to grow than the BB, but it is sooooo worth every minute. I have read that a lot of people don't have much luck with the OG and only get small flowers (although high quality). I'm actually starting to understand the OG now and get what it wants. Pretty much you can NEVER say NO to OG or you will be ignored for a long time. LOVES being foliar fed, LOVES the Mg, LOVES the RED light, HATES being dry, HATES eating more than necessary, absolutely LOVES the 24 hour light cycle and HATES excessive blue light(seems strange but this strain would NOT grow under a hortilux blue 400w MH no matter how much I begged it to and no matter how little or much it ate!).
Thanks, this is pure gold.

But yeah, I think I see what you're saying. The wattage is all the same, do you gain in PAR what you lose in lumens? If the x on the graph is the nanometers, what is the y? Can you compare the y value from one manufacturers graph to another? I don't know
 

aoyanagi

Member
VHO = Very High Output. HO = High Output. HO fixtures are designed to run HO bulbs and get 5k lumens per bulb. VHO fixtures are designed to run VHO bulbs and get 7800 lumens per bulb by supplying more electricity to each bulb, sacrificing some effiency for more light output. You cannot put an HO bulb into a VHO fixture and have it run ok, it will get too much juice and burn out. You can put a VHO bulb into an HO fixture and it will run just fine and have about twice the bulb life as an HO would have. Individual unscrupulous manufacturers notwithstanding, why would a VHO bulb output less lumens in an HO fixture than the HO bulb would? Does not compute. ALL T5 bulbs useable in a T5 HO fixture should put out roughly 5k lumens, or am I completely wrong here?

*Assuming a 4 ft fixture, numbers taken from industry standard for 4 ft fixture/bulb*

Edit: Much thanks to the unseen/unknown mod(s) who took the disruptive posts out. Back to some productive discussion, woot!
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
Lumens are more than what just humans see, I've got a light meter I can hold under my 1000w HPS and it'll read 150k lumens, like advertised.
I, respectfully, fail to see how this proves that "lumens are more than what just humans see"
the internationally recognized (derived) SI term, Lumens, is EXACTLY limited to what humans see.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, and if so I really want to fix it, can you explain?
Thanks
 

BlueB

Active Member

(MPP to lazy to change font/bold---this is why the pink bulb comments are asenine,

you want your pinky's to be there from the get go for best results.
This is confusing, are you saying the pink bulbs are good or bad? It sounds like you are saying they are good and bad. I have been trying to figure out which bulbs to order but everyone keeps recommending a different one.

I don't see anyone talking about pink bulbs except for that okthanks2 jerk. Does that mean you support his pink bulb theory or are against it? (Sorry if you are actually okthanks2 under a different name. not trying to start any problem) I know that just because someone is a jerk doesn't make them wrong, but I still can't figure out which bulb is the right one.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Lumens are more than what just humans see, I've got a light meter I can hold under my 1000w HPS and it'll read 150k lumens, like advertised. It's nothing special either.. and I'm aware that this is better quality light but if it isn't outputting enough lumens (8 bulb t5 with 6500k is 40k lumens, if these are 3k instead of 5k then that means theres only 24k lumens on an 8 bulb fixture. then that would explain some people having bad results....
Lumens by definition is visible light. Its way of measuring what te human eye sees. My 1000 watt is a 150k lumens too. Your light meter measures visible light. Lumens pretty muxh are irrelevant. Plants only use 10% of the light we see or kumens.

Lumens are like greek mythology to light. so I dont understand your logic either. for your meter to measure morevthan lumens it would be a radio spectrameter too. those run for like $8,000 for cheapest one.
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
This is confusing, are you saying the pink bulbs are good or bad? It sounds like you are saying they are good and bad. I have been trying to figure out which bulbs to order but everyone keeps recommending a different one.

I don't see anyone talking about pink bulbs except for that okthanks2 jerk. Does that mean you support his pink bulb theory or are against it? (Sorry if you are actually okthanks2 under a different name. not trying to start any problem) I know that just because someone is a jerk doesn't make them wrong, but I still can't figure out which bulb is the right one.
ok heres the story, one mans pink is another mans fuchsia...
so the "pink" bulb is a misnomer because many bulbs can "appear" to the eye to be a specific color but in reality are more different than they appear....
I use fiji purple (personal preference because in my own research they make for the only mixed bulb that has a large amount of red and blue...
I also use the UVL 75.25 for the perfect triband bulb.IMHO
red suns for flowering and a strong actinic bulb for vegging. like the 451 or Actinic or blue plus.
heres my theory and its proven science...
if you control the light your plants get IE (red)[redsun], (blue)[actinic], Mixed[75.25,fiji]
you can easily replace a solid color for another color during the veg/bloom phase to suit your need and the plants needs.
now if you use all 6500k bulbs or a majority which one? theres well over 30 varieties from GE{Starcoat} to [Veg] bulbs all use different degrees of "white" or "triband" phosphors which is very hard to control what your plants want/need...
my method just allows you to create a growing environment that YOU the grower can adjust the amount and level of light including {UV/IR} which the plants need at different stages of development. if i use a strong atinic i dont "need" the triband 6500 and i dont create unnecessary light that the plant uses @ a less efficient level. sure plants can grow under incandecant light but you need TONS of it... why reate energy the plant doesent use?
Now that being said it all depends on your setup, i would suggest a good actinic, UVL454 or actinic plus, a 75.25 or 1000k[less yellow/orange light than 6500k], a red& blue like the planta or the fuji purple... then throw in some red suns during veg and remove the actinics... now theres a caveat, and this is from a ton of research you can google. Actinic light/UV promotes resin production, this is a fact that has been tested and proven by many botanical studies... UV light is damaging to plants so in order to protect themselves plants produce defense mechanisms, and in cannabis research has shown resin glands o be created in abundance during the introduction of UV light.. if in doubt i suggest reading https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/452030-c-wiz-advanced-cannabis-lounge.html
CANNAWIZARD can attest to this phenomenon and has EXTENSIVE TESTING in this arena. HE also uses PAR LIGHTING in his grows as it ENHANCES his crop... take it for what its worth...
I have never and will never discuss yield, or growth or weight as this is not the place for that... I can attest and it has already been posted in this very forum that QUALITY has been increased using this method. Also I would like to mention that others have done comparisons with this method vs 1000W and 600W with great results, weight not included as 480W is not = 600W HID. But i would bet the Quality is better on the T5 end ;) and that is what were all trying to achieve..
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Very off topic here, but I asked in the seed threads with no help, if I order from Attitude and ask for re-packaging, how can I tell which is which if theyre not in breeder packs? If they send em in the wallet, are they labeled? PM me pls to help, I'm ordering later today :) finally good genetics :)
I order from attitude they sent me seeds in the "wallet" attached to the breeders business card...
I personally will be ordering fron greenhouse next time as i dont trust this method.. greenhouse color dyes their seeds so you KNOW what your getting, i do however get the attitude seeds CDcollectors seeds like super lemon haze its a blister pack with 10 seeds neatly arranges in their own "bubble"
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
Thanks prof for reiterating all that, nice even for someone who is following you w/o trouble to have a rehashing.
Since it wasn't re-addressed in the prof's last post but it was asked, you cannot simply compare the two light company's graphs, there are too many ways of adulterating the data and the most important piece (e, energy level) is totally missing and should be hard to derive. This is the piece that we wish we could just plug in (like the lumen number, would seem to imply an energy level but lumens don't even differentiate between different nm's anyways) and know how effective the light source really is. Again the PAR pdf posted earlier addresses the substantial difficulties in measuring PAR light and our best option without the indicated budget requirements for the radio spectrometer, is to compare eachother's results and try not to heavily modify techniques if we are expecting similar outcomes.
However regarding comparing graphs, I would feel a little more comfortable comparing the graphs from the same company/relabeler's various offered products (I guess if they are all in the same product line) which is how we determine the piecemeal wavelength spectrums we want to create.
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Welcome, aoyanagi.

I believe that information comes from the following site: http://www.itgcchem.com/phosphor/phosphor.htm - correct? It's great to have you along. We'll both be waiting to hear from the experts on those phosphor blends!

...

Today, the pr0fesseur's thread taught me about ignore lists and how to use them. This thread is always a good read.



Happy Growing.
I have looked around and there are manufacturers... who for the right "minimum" order make all the bulbs you want.

PROBLEM
minimum order 100k :(
 

Undercover Cop

Active Member
this is confusing, are you saying the pink bulbs are good or bad? It sounds like you are saying they are good and bad. I have been trying to figure out which bulbs to order but everyone keeps recommending a different one.

I don't see anyone talking about pink bulbs except for that okthanks2 jerk. Does that mean you support his pink bulb theory or are against it? (sorry if you are actually okthanks2 under a different name. Not trying to start any problem) i know that just because someone is a jerk doesn't make them wrong, but i still can't figure out which bulb is the right one.

heeeeessss baaaaaaccccckkkkk
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I order from attitude they sent me seeds in the "wallet" attached to the breeders business card...
I personally will be ordering fron greenhouse next time as i dont trust this method.. greenhouse color dyes their seeds so you KNOW what your getting, i do however get the attitude seeds CDcollectors seeds like super lemon haze its a blister pack with 10 seeds neatly arranges in their own "bubble"
I like gypsy nirvana. Ive been using them for years. They carry all the seed companies too and for a good prices. But dont get it. Confused with nirvana shop. Those are 2 different boutiques. Ive ordered from both. Nirvana shop is muxh cheaper. But strains are just ok and they pass off some strains as others. Like their master kush is realky hindu skunk. Any way gypsy nirvana has every seed company in their boutique and they all have great strains.
 

Undercover Cop

Active Member
Im going attittude, 5 fem wembley + 5 fem pipi... + 10 fem freebies! promo until 4pm tomorrow. So Im going w tude :) Prof w the wallet option, they're bagged and labeled? so I can tell them apart? I dont need breeder packs, just want them and want to know whats what. Tshirt, Wallet, candies??? best option from attitude? ordering tonite
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
i did the wallet and the seeds were in little baggies attached&labeled with stickers to the breeders cards..
i ordered god bud, super lemon haze, kandy kush, and sharks breath. all arrived all females.

Im looking to pick up some vintage strains anyone know a good place?
i want WhiteWidow#1
afghan
and pure sour diesel.(not vintage jsut damn hard to find)
 

BlueB

Active Member
ok heres the story, one mans pink is another mans fuchsia...
so the "pink" bulb is a misnomer because many bulbs can "appear" to the eye to be a specific color but in reality are more different than they appear....
I use fiji purple (personal preference because in my own research they make for the only mixed bulb that has a large amount of red and blue...
I also use the UVL 75.25 for the perfect triband bulb.IMHO
red suns for flowering and a strong actinic bulb for vegging. like the 451 or Actinic or blue plus.
heres my theory and its proven science...
if you control the light your plants get IE (red)[redsun], (blue)[actinic], Mixed[75.25,fiji]
you can easily replace a solid color for another color during the veg/bloom phase to suit your need and the plants needs.
now if you use all 6500k bulbs or a majority which one? theres well over 30 varieties from GE{Starcoat} to [Veg] bulbs all use different degrees of "white" or "triband" phosphors which is very hard to control what your plants want/need...
my method just allows you to create a growing environment that YOU the grower can adjust the amount and level of light including {UV/IR} which the plants need at different stages of development. if i use a strong atinic i dont "need" the triband 6500 and i dont create unnecessary light that the plant uses @ a less efficient level. sure plants can grow under incandecant light but you need TONS of it... why reate energy the plant doesent use?
Now that being said it all depends on your setup, i would suggest a good actinic, UVL454 or actinic plus, a 75.25 or 1000k[less yellow/orange light than 6500k], a red& blue like the planta or the fuji purple... then throw in some red suns during veg and remove the actinics... now theres a caveat, and this is from a ton of research you can google. Actinic light/UV promotes resin production, this is a fact that has been tested and proven by many botanical studies... UV light is damaging to plants so in order to protect themselves plants produce defense mechanisms, and in cannabis research has shown resin glands o be created in abundance during the introduction of UV light.. if in doubt i suggest reading https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/452030-c-wiz-advanced-cannabis-lounge.html
CANNAWIZARD can attest to this phenomenon and has EXTENSIVE TESTING in this arena. HE also uses PAR LIGHTING in his grows as it ENHANCES his crop... take it for what its worth...
I have never and will never discuss yield, or growth or weight as this is not the place for that... I can attest and it has already been posted in this very forum that QUALITY has been increased using this method. Also I would like to mention that others have done comparisons with this method vs 1000W and 600W with great results, weight not included as 480W is not = 600W HID. But i would bet the Quality is better on the T5 end ;) and that is what were all trying to achieve..
I am familiar with Cannawizard's grows. He uses Kessil LED lighting as supplement. In your opinion would this work as a good veg setup for a 4 bulb system? 2 of the fiji and 2 of the red sun? I see that the red sun peak at 630nm, does anyone know what specifically this wavelength does for the plants? For instance, would 630nm be used more for veg and 660 be used more for flower? What would be a good ratio of each wavelength for veg? Same question for flower? I know these may be tough questions, but if anyone has an idea please do share.
 

BlueB

Active Member
i did the wallet and the seeds were in little baggies attached&labeled with stickers to the breeders cards..
i ordered god bud, super lemon haze, kandy kush, and sharks breath. all arrived all females.

Im looking to pick up some vintage strains anyone know a good place?
i want WhiteWidow#1
afghan
and pure sour diesel.(not vintage jsut damn hard to find)
Would be awesome to get some SOUR D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's clone only :(
 
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