Land and Heir Genetics / Paydirt seeds

Still waiting fingers crossed on the Kerala beans to pop! Always a gamble with old seeds but if they pop it's gonna be a great day!! We are going to be working some heirloom stuff as well soon, any suggestions on things to acquire and breed ( only heirlooms, cultivated continuously for generations by local people of a region)
I get alot of questions about heirlooms like " Is gorilla glue #4 an heirloom? ,I've grown it for 3 years in the same place and so have my friends" ....... ........... that's...not...an heirloom.....I'd say at least minimum 15 years in a single area to be safe and not like " skunk #1 has been around since 85 why isn't it an heirloom!?" ...well it could be if you could provide proof or well accepted common knowledge that it has been grown and acclimated by a small group of people that whole time..then yes it's particular phenoyype maybe considered an heirloom, but I think more along the lines of....peyote purple, crippy, blue dream( to the Santa Cruz area), Colorado clone Durban, g13 from the southern Ohio region, things that you can go and sit at a table of strangers that toke and bring up, and that everyone around goes.." oh yea I remember that shit or yes we still have it!" That imo is more of an heirloom genetic....that being said....I wanna know what you guys think?!
 
LandAndHeir said:
Still waiting fingers crossed on the Kerala beans to pop! Always a gamble with old seeds but if they pop it's gonna be a great day!! We are going to be working some heirloom stuff as well soon, any suggestions on things to acquire and breed ( only heirlooms, cultivated continuously for generations by local people of a region)
I get alot of questions about heirlooms like " Is gorilla glue #4 an heirloom? ,I've grown it for 3 years in the same place and so have my friends" ....... ........... that's...not...an heirloom.....I'd say at least minimum 15 years in a single area to be safe and not like " skunk #1 has been around since 85 why isn't it an heirloom!?" ...well it could be if you could provide proof or well accepted common knowledge that it has been grown and acclimated by a small group of people that whole time..then yes it's particular phenoyype maybe considered an heirloom, but I think more along the lines of....peyote purple, crippy, blue dream( to the Santa Cruz area), Colorado clone Durban, g13 from the southern Ohio region, things that you can go and sit at a table of strangers that toke and bring up, and that everyone around goes.." oh yea I remember that shit or yes we still have it!" That imo is more of an heirloom genetic....that being said....I wanna know what you guys think?!
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Bubble gum from Indiana
 
SAM_0377.JPG OK we had none of he 5 Kerala germinate...old mistreated seeds possibly...but we keep rolling! Next up Kenyan landrace dubbed Ozi B by the gentleman we aquired them from. Apparently a huge huge producer, he said the smell was " just weird" kinda publish if I recall correctly. And I believe around a 10 seeker. Collected by the man himself in Kenya. He also said it was he most psychedelic high he has ever experienced! We have 31 and I put 15 into water this morning for the initial pop.
 
LandAndHeir said:
Still waiting fingers crossed on the Kerala beans to pop! Always a gamble with old seeds but if they pop it's gonna be a great day!! We are going to be working some heirloom stuff as well soon, any suggestions on things to acquire and breed ( only heirlooms, cultivated continuously for generations by local people of a region)
I get alot of questions about heirlooms like " Is gorilla glue #4 an heirloom? ,I've grown it for 3 years in the same place and so have my friends" ....... ........... that's...not...an heirloom.....I'd say at least minimum 15 years in a single area to be safe and not like " skunk #1 has been around since 85 why isn't it an heirloom!?" ...well it could be if you could provide proof or well accepted common knowledge that it has been grown and acclimated by a small group of people that whole time..then yes it's particular phenoyype maybe considered an heirloom, but I think more along the lines of....peyote purple, crippy, blue dream( to the Santa Cruz area), Colorado clone Durban, g13 from the southern Ohio region, things that you can go and sit at a table of strangers that toke and bring up, and that everyone around goes.." oh yea I remember that shit or yes we still have it!" That imo is more of an heirloom genetic....that being said....I wanna know what you guys think?!
Click to expand...

its always been my belief and understanding that an heirloom needs to be an open pollinated variety grown in an isolated geographic region or by an isolated community for more than 50 years (tomatoes as reference) to be considered a true heirloom variety. I do not believe there are any populations of cannabis in North America that can truly claim to be a local heirloom, only imports.

Tom Hill comes to mind when I think about folks who are close though. I own beans from greengenes cherrybomb too and those have been inbred since the 70s but still since they havent been open pollinated or acclimated to any particular region I wouldnt say theyre even close to heirloom imo.

I hope to make my strain Pinkie Pie into the first true heirloom auto in the states.... 50 years from now lmao
 
What about clone only grown for 20+ years but without males for pollination? My crippy would be a good example. The crippy clone has been in the Tampa bay area since 95 and has now in growing at 10000+ ft above sea level for 3 years and has definitely changed its expression from the sea level gardens inside to 10000 ft sun year round. If I'm wrong about the heirloom stuff I will gladly admit it. No ego here, just trying to learn more every year. Going into my 12th year of cultivation so I have a ton more to learn
 
So I'm thinking after more research that heirloom is the wrong term for me to be using. I read 100 years 50 years, since 45 since 51 and despite all of the difference in opinion none of my genetics meet the criteria. Bf80255 is absolutely correct. So let's get a list of true heirlooms going if we can collectively as a group agree on one I will do everything in my power to go and get it or send one of he team or our traveling friends to find and get real deals. That brings me to ask ...what can we term these American staple varieties that have existed in either clone only or open pollination style for 20 30 40 years?
And should we go ahead and grow those onto the Paydirt side of things as to not mislead people?
 
We also have 9 Pakistani plants now in 2 gal pots getting ready for pollination. In a seperate facility so il have to travel down to get shots or get my guy down there a camera
 
LandAndHeir said:
What about clone only grown for 20+ years but without males for pollination? My crippy would be a good example. The crippy clone has been in the Tampa bay area since 95 and has now in growing at 10000+ ft above sea level for 3 years and has definitely changed its expression from the sea level gardens inside to 10000 ft sun year round. If I'm wrong about the heirloom stuff I will gladly admit it. No ego here, just trying to learn more every year. Going into my 12th year of cultivation so I have a ton more to learn
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No I dont think that fits the criteria either, the clone may acclimate phenotypically but the genotype is still a carbon copy of the plant it was taken from. the point of the open pollination and isolation is to allow the strain to develop over generations of natural and artificial selection to suit the environment and needs of the grower and maintain a high degree of genetic diversity, neither of which can be achieved by acclimating a clone.

Love that philosophy! Im the same way, no way anyone of us could ever learn all this magical plant has to share :)

Super difficult to find pure landrace strains in this day and age with all the hybridizing, changing demands from consumers, drug eradication, war and stuff like that. im willing to bet most if not all true landraces have disappeared from where they were originally bred by now. how can you maintain pure lines when you grow outdoor and your neighbor is using foreign genetics?
 
I know the genotype doesn't change when a clone acclimates it's just interesting how drastic the phenotypical variation can be from one environment to the other. I'm sure that almost every landrace by now has been pollinated by invader pollen! Green house seeds strain hunters vids make me laugh, pollen from lemon haze and church going all over the native crop
 
LandAndHeir said:
I know the genotype doesn't change when a clone acclimates it's just interesting how drastic the phenotypical variation can be from one environment to the other. I'm sure that almost every landrace by now has been pollinated by invader pollen! Green house seeds strain hunters vids make me laugh, pollen from lemon haze and church going all over the native crop
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oh yeah man totally! my stupid plants dont show the colored pistils indoors (generally) but when they go outside all kinds of new colors start popping up its crazy to think all that stuff is just hiding right under the surface waiting to be found.

I try to keep my nose out of breeder politics but greenhouse..... I really really dont like those guys.....

im almost positive they knew what they were doing when they gave all those farmers there crappy ass genetics.
 
LandAndHeir said:
I know the genotype doesn't change when a clone acclimates it's just interesting how drastic the phenotypical variation can be from one environment to the other. I'm sure that almost every landrace by now has been pollinated by invader pollen! Green house seeds strain hunters vids make me laugh, pollen from lemon haze and church going all over the native crop
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That shit didnt make me laugh one bit, fucking dicks screwing up the gene pool
 
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