Kitty's Commercial Grow Op-Bigger & Better Every Day!

researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
This is 240v for everything. A lot of the speculation comes because of coloring of the wiring.

MAIN PANEL ---> SUB PANEL = 70 amp circuit. 2 black wires, each hot. 1 green wire, the ground. Home Depot said with a 70 amp sub panel 3 wiring was all I needed, and 4 wires was unnecessary unless I was at 100 amps. The subpanel doesnt even have a space for a 4th wire, so I tend to think HD was right.

SUB PANEL --> OUTLETS = black/white/bare copper. Black & White are BOTH HOT 120V since this is a 240V OUTLET. The bare copper wire is the ground, which is affixed to the green colored outlet screw, the other are where the hots go.

NONE OF THIS WAS MADE FROM SCRAPS. Its all brand new stuff from Home Depot. I dont know where or why speculation began that this was from scrap jobs and spare wiring OMG lol........ It isnt, its all brand new. The wiring for each individual outlet was made from a new 20 foot cable that was cut to size for each outlet then wired. Each outlet goes from the main wires to a pigtail, and then from pigtails goes to next outlets pigtails and then down to the outlet. aka 3 wires per piggy tail.

I followed the instructions in the Home Depot electricians howto guide, just something simple is wrong, and I'm workin to figure that out. :)

It sounds like the ground wire for the subpanel to main panel is attached to the neutral (the GREEN cable) rather than the ground bar. Sound right? :)

Thanks everyone very much!
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
This is 240v for everything. A lot of the speculation comes because of coloring of the wiring.

MAIN PANEL ---> SUB PANEL = 70 amp circuit. 2 black wires, each hot. 1 green wire, the ground. Home Depot said with a 70 amp sub panel 3 wiring was all I needed, and 4 wires was unnecessary unless I was at 100 amps. The subpanel doesnt even have a space for a 4th wire, so I tend to think HD was right.

SUB PANEL --> OUTLETS = black/white/bare copper. Black & White are BOTH HOT 120V since this is a 240V OUTLET. The bare copper wire is the ground, which is affixed to the green colored outlet screw, the other are where the hots go.

NONE OF THIS WAS MADE FROM SCRAPS. Its all brand new stuff from Home Depot. I dont know where or why speculation began that this was from scrap jobs and spare wiring OMG lol........ It isnt, its all brand new. The wiring for each individual outlet was made from a new 20 foot cable that was cut to size for each outlet then wired. Each outlet goes from the main wires to a pigtail, and then from pigtails goes to next outlets pigtails and then down to the outlet. aka 3 wires per piggy tail.

I followed the instructions in the Home Depot electricians howto guide, just something simple is wrong, and I'm workin to figure that out. :)

It sounds like the ground wire for the subpanel to main panel is attached to the neutral (the GREEN cable) rather than the ground bar. Sound right? :)

Thanks everyone very much!
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You are correct. It also looked like one of your receptacles was wired wrong. It should be white to white black to brass. (This really doesn't matter since both legs are hot, but for consistency they should all be wired the same)

You only need 3 wires + ground when the sub panel is used for 120 and 240 volt or if the sub panel is on a detached building from the main panel. ie detached garage/shop etc (if on a detached structure you also need a grounding rod.)

All you need to do is move your ground wire to the grounding bar and check your wiring on your receptacles and you're good.

I was an electrician in the Army and also worked as a journeyman electrician for the IBEW so I know what I'm talking about. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
Arsehole said:
You are correct. It also looked like one of your receptacles was wired wrong. It should be white to white black to brass. (This really doesn't matter since both legs are hot, but for consistency they should all be wired the same)

You only need 3 wires + ground when the sub panel is used for 120 and 240 volt or if the sub panel is on a detached building from the main panel. ie detached garage/shop etc (if on a detached structure you also need a grounding rod.)

All you need to do is move your ground wire to the grounding bar and check your wiring on your receptacles and you're good.

I was an electrician in the Army and also worked as a journeyman electrician for the IBEW so I know what I'm talking about. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
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Thanks very much for your help! I'll rewire the ground wire to the ground bar in the morning and check each outlet as well to ensure pigtails are snug and wires are accurate.

The way I did the wiring for the outlets, since stripping down 10/2 wire from the yellow plastic resulted in a black, white and bare wire, I kept the white wires on top and the black on bottom and the bare wire to the green ground. Since both were hot, I still didnt want them criss crossing down the outlets, so they are all the same physical wire for the same physical prong on each plug. Since only one of the 20amp circuits out of the four (two dual 20amps) that tells me its an outlet on the top part so that's what I'll be checking tonight.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
Nunotmp said:
Im subbed...Looking good kitty..So when is first harvest?
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Week 3 started today for the 4 lights that are flowering. They are all about 4 feeet tall for the big ones and a foot tall for the smaller ones. Have 60 to plant soon that are vegging under a 1000w mh and then another 50 seeds + 40 clones to catch up too............ All it really now is time -- just gotta install things as they are needed. Thankfully the electric isnt needed for another week so I have some time in case this next fix in the morning doesnt work lol...................
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Damn Girl!! Looks Awesome...

Yeah the wiring should be different colors but if she knows what they are then fine... Typically if you only had white wire and you wanted to use it for hot you would tape the end of the wire in the panel with black or red electrical tape to indicate its purpose.

What they said about the ground and neutral. All neutrals should be isolated in the sub-panel. The easy answer is that you dont want to confuse the electricity if it decides it needs to ground itself.
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
Thanks very much for your help! I'll rewire the ground wire to the ground bar in the morning and check each outlet as well to ensure pigtails are snug and wires are accurate.

The way I did the wiring for the outlets, since stripping down 10/2 wire from the yellow plastic resulted in a black, white and bare wire, I kept the white wires on top and the black on bottom and the bare wire to the green ground. Since both were hot, I still didnt want them criss crossing down the outlets, so they are all the same physical wire for the same physical prong on each plug. Since only one of the 20amp circuits out of the four (two dual 20amps) that tells me its an outlet on the top part so that's what I'll be checking tonight.
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No problem. It's a shame so many people give wrong advice on things they do not know. Especially when someone's life is at stake.
 
Crypnotic

Crypnotic

Active Member
Bonzi Lighthouse said:
Oh befor i get all cute bring someone in that knows their shit to help you, this is serious business, ok now on to being cute.

I snaped a couple of pictures of my own of work in progress:

Mr. Kitty on the pole outside



RC taking a break



Even the kids are helping out

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This is some funny stuff!

Why do I get the feeling that if Mr. Kitty saw this thread, he'd stop all future attempts of DIY wiring, and call an electrictian.

I also get the feeling that Mrs. Kitty is determined to show Mr. Kitty she can do it!

I'm sure Mr. Kitty humors you in all kinds of ways, and up till now it has been very funny . . . but a humorous man usually isn't into "I told you so" . . . go to Mr. Kitty and call an electritian.
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
This is an official "FUCK! HELP!" post. :) Something is wrong with the electric subpanel I'm wiring up. I attached the two hot (black wires) to the new circuit and snapped it in place, then the green neutral or ground not sure whatever it is to the bus with all the white wires to it.

My electric meter hot test tool says I have power to all of the outlets, even when the circuit in the new subpanel is disconnected. The top circuit trips as well by making a pop sound with a spark when you try to turn the top circuit on.

I have two suspicions, but not knowledgeable enough to try them myself yet without some "Sounds good!" advice or the right advice from the forums here......... My first thought is that the ground/neutral may be on the wrong bar. The second thought is that the circuit in the new panel that is tripping might just have a loose pigtail connection or something between one of the 8 outlets on the top. Then again it may be one single problem too, I just dont know. I think its the bus for the ground because when the circuits are off I still get a red light on my active electricity monitor gadget. I think its the wiring to one of the outlets since its a single circuit that trips not all four. Still, no f'n clue. :)

Help a girl out, any wise electricians able to spot the problem? Normal power is up now, so next try will be tomorrow morning if we can get it figured out....... Thanks in advance and a million +rep's. :)


#28 - The new circuit in the main panel.



#29 - Is this the right bar for the green wire? Or is it the one in the back?? :)



#30 -



#31 - The new subpanel, this is what the circuit in #28 connects to.



#32 -



#33 -



#34 -



#35 - My wiring job



#36 -



Any ideas? :) Thanks everyone..............
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still trying to parallel generators?

lol...


look, you just created what is known in the electrical world as a parallel neutral.

the green GROUND WIRE is connected to the NEUTRAL bar.

move it to where the rest of the green/bare wires are connected to, or if it wont there, buy a GROUNDING LUG and bolt it anywhere to the inside of the electrical panel.
tadaa!

if you were an electrician, you would have just got a Red Tag/ failed electrical inspection, and it would have cost you an assload of time, money, and reinspections by an inspector that now knows, you dont know anything.

A parallel neutral is a death trap, kitty.... the reason your breakers are tripping is because instead of going to mother earth, the current is going to whatever else has a better ground.. that whatever else could be you, maybe your washing machine, or maybe the shower head in your neighbors house as he steps into the shower and drops dead.

Please do a little more 'research' in the future :wink:

(sorry, i just couldnt resist that little barb)

and im sorry, DONT EVER LISTEN TO THE IDIOTS AT HOME DEPOT, if they were compatent they would be in the field, as electricians, get much better pay, benefits, and self respect than they would ever find working the elec dept in a hardware store! it takes 5 years of educ ation and 10,000 hours of experience before someone can even legally call himself an electrician.......
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
IAm5toned said:
still trying to parallel generators?

look, you just created what is known in the electrical world as a parallel neutral.

the green GROUND WIRE is connected to the NEUTRAL bar.

move it to where the rest of the green/bare wires are connected to, or if it wont there, buy a GROUNDING LUG and bolt it anywhere to the inside of the electrical panel.
tadaa!

if you were an electrician, you would have just got a Red Tag/ failed electrical inspection, and it would have cost you an assload of time, money, and reinspections by an inspector that now knows, you dont know anything.

A parallel neutral is a death trap, kitty.... the reason your breakers are tripping is because instead of going to mother earth, the current is going to whatever else has a better ground.. that whatever else could be you, maybe your washing machine, or maybe the shower head in your neighbors house as he steps into the shower and drops dead.

Please do a little more 'research' in the future :wink:

(sorry, i just couldnt resist that little barb)

and im sorry, DONT EVER LISTEN TO THE IDIOTS AT HOME DEPOT, if they were compatent they would be in the field, as electricians, get much better pay, benefits, and self respect than they would ever find working the elec dept in a hardware store! it takes 5 years of educ ation and 10,000 hours of experience before someone can even legally call himself an electrician.......
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Used the Honda kit, and then sold the generators a week ago :) This place is pre-wired with a third panel for a generator, all I have to do is buy one and have it hooked up. Its wired up to run its own circuits or as a transfer switch. Pretty happy about that, saves a looooot of cash!

Thanks again for the advice -- I figured electric was like legos that could shock you. So far just two errors, both simple to fix so I cant complain. The Home Depot books really have excellent pictures. For $12, grab one if you are an amature like me. :)
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Nice setup. I'm not an electrician so I can't comment on that but the water cooling/messing with a lake sounds like the perfect way to get busted big time, as bad if not worse than stealing power.

Somebody sees that shit, in person or on FLIR or whatever if you have a warm spot, and you will have the city/county/state seriously up your ass for environmental/wildlife issues that can be as costly as a drug bust.

An easy way to loose everything. You might see that as no big deal, won't really affect anything at all but they will see it as the end of the world, like you are putting poison into the lake 24/7 or boiling all the fish alive. You can't even put a water wheel in a stream for decoration without a permit, which you can't get.


It's an excuse to bust you and shut you down, and some people are always looking for an excuse to screw with growers legal or not.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
Time for a photo update...............

Tomorrow the electric will be fixed. The rooms are fairly setup so far, a bit to do still. :) Pictures of that after I can get the electric on.

Till then.........We got our AquaLab shipment. This place if you havent heard of them sells DIY kits for Ebb & Flow control buckets as well as top off kits and a bunch of other stuff. Lots of relays and floats there for custom jobs. Got in a bunch of the control kits and the topoff kit.


#37 - HOLY SHIT! What a nice kit! This is their "new for 2010" kit, and unlike their other one, contains a lot of upgrades. They used to not use the orange/white boxes and used twist caps, and the two grounded plugs that LIGHT UP ORANGE OR GREEN while they indicate flood or drain and have pumps on, as well as the GCFI master plug. Previously you had to hack up two extension cords and use two AC outlets, now you just need one and everything is pretty.

Here it is all apart anyway.............



#38 - These are the new plugs AquaLab includes. They power the flood pump or the drain pump. When they are pumping, the plug lights up.



#39 - The new power cord for the control bucket/box.



#40 - The top it off kit deluxe..... A bunch of floats to keep fresh water tanks full.



#41 - After about an hour......... Almost done! Just have to drill a few holes for grommets for the water lines and attach the top, then screw the box to the bucket. Exceptionally easy to install.



#42 - Float placements........... Notice the two on bottom point down the three on top lay flat (up).





That's it for now! Photo update tomorrow after lunch...... I'm thinkin Arbys........ Thanks as always, and I spread a bunch of rep around for everyone who helped out with questions and advice..........
 

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Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
OregonMeds said:
Nice setup. I'm not an electrician so I can't comment on that but the water cooling/messing with a lake sounds like the perfect way to get busted big time, as bad if not worse than stealing power.

Somebody sees that shit, in person or on FLIR or whatever if you have a warm spot, and you will have the city/county/state seriously up your ass for environmental/wildlife issues that can be as costly as a drug bust.

An easy way to loose everything. You might see that as no big deal, won't really affect anything at all but they will see it as the end of the world, like you are putting poison into the lake 24/7 or boiling all the fish alive. You can't even put a water wheel in a stream for decoration without a permit, which you can't get.


It's an excuse to bust you and shut you down, and some people are always looking for an excuse to screw with growers legal or not.
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Good point.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
OregonMeds said:
Nice setup. I'm not an electrician so I can't comment on that but the water cooling/messing with a lake sounds like the perfect way to get busted big time, as bad if not worse than stealing power.

Somebody sees that shit, in person or on FLIR or whatever if you have a warm spot, and you will have the city/county/state seriously up your ass for environmental/wildlife issues that can be as costly as a drug bust.

An easy way to loose everything. You might see that as no big deal, won't really affect anything at all but they will see it as the end of the world, like you are putting poison into the lake 24/7 or boiling all the fish alive. You can't even put a water wheel in a stream for decoration without a permit, which you can't get.


It's an excuse to bust you and shut you down, and some people are always looking for an excuse to screw with growers legal or not.
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Thanks that's very excellent advice! Here's a trick for using the lake which I plan on using to prevent *exactly* this problem:

Stream (Source of water) --> Pump --> Building --> Wort Chiller --> Sewer

The Wort Chiller (http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/wort-chiller-stainless-steel-immersion.php) sits inside a 55 gallon reservoir that is the supply and return feeds for the iceboxes on each reflector.

Pretty much just going to constantly pump in fresh water from outside making the Wort Chiller a free water chiller............ Saves a ton of product cash plus the electric to run those workhorses......

All the details are still up in the air, but any advice you have is welcome!!! I wont be adding the water cooling until snow starts to thaw and I would need A/C. Then water + CO2 at the same time.......

Thanks!
 
TheOrganic

TheOrganic

Well-Known Member
You are on a whole diff. level! One of my dream jobs is to go comm. someday and be devoted full time. You inspire me, good luck on your wiring wish I could help mine was simple(new breakers n wiring).
So are those just kits for buckets you provide yourself? Looks nice.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
TheOrganic said:
So are those just kits for buckets you provide yourself? Looks nice.
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Yup! I use the Home Depot ones because for $3, you cant really get a better 5 gallon bucket. =) I gotta buy a lid tomorrow when I go there, never leave them things un-lidded. :) The one time the pump gets disconnected from the tubing is the time it'll flood your ceiling hehe
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
farmboss said:
post if it works good. thats literally the one i want. its HUGE!
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Will do! The week 3 (Day 15) stuff flowering now is JUST starting to have a tiny scent. Right now there's no filtration, just fresh air and a humidifier. This means I'll likely install the filters in a week.
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
As a matter of fact, the US Army Corps of engineers owns every sq inch of shoreline in the united states, regardless of whose name is on the deed, they have right of eminent domain.

what this means for you, is that tampering with a waterway, or body of water, without prior approval, is a federal offense.

tho honestly, i do think that if in a worst case scenario, u got pinched, they would rather charge u with manufacturing than fed stuff... but, it also might be a way to get you caught, or something else on top of an already massive fine/sentence....

big ups!
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
IAm5toned said:
As a matter of fact, the US Army Corps of engineers owns every sq inch of shoreline in the united states, regardless of whose name is on the deed, they have right of eminent domain.

what this means for you, is that tampering with a waterway, or body of water, without prior approval, is a federal offense.

tho honestly, i do think that if in a worst case scenario, u got pinched, they would rather charge u with manufacturing than fed stuff... but, it also might be a way to get you caught, or something else on top of an already massive fine/sentence....

big ups!
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BUT... i DO know for a fact its perfectly legal to tap into a stream waterway for lawn irrigation systems.... who has to know u dont have one...

ever hear of a heat exchanger?

just a thought ;)
 
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