Iran Update...

Okay.... now we are back on track..... whew.

Han, the Iranians are doing their enrichment in a deeply buried bunker with a 30 foot thick concrete walls.

Now just stop and think a bit.... forget politics..... why on earth would you go to all that expense and secrecy to enrich uranium? Why would you refuse inspections? Who does that? North Korea and Iran, that's who.... NO ONE ELSE does that.

If you only wanted to have nuclear energy, you would WELCOME inspections. You would want to assure everyone, no worries here. Iran has done the exact OPPOSITE Han.

What does your common sense tell you?

I get the 30 foot bunker thing. But you have to admit we have a tendency of sending missiles at things we don't like, so it would seem to be a pretty safe precaution if you have a country like america always breathing down your neck. And will say that if they are building weapons that would be a good spot, but also it would keep their nuclear power production safe too.


But I found this in regards to the inspections:

Despite having fewer centrifuges being used for enrichment, the output of the Natanz plant appears to be fairly steady at 2.77kg of low enriched uranium (LEU) a day. Iran now has accumulated 1,508kg of LEU. LEU is used in nuclear power reactors rather than weapons, but Iran's western critics argue it can be converted relatively easily into weapons-grade high enriched uranium.


Iran now has enough, if that was done, to make a single nuclear warhead. Therefore, Iran's critics are unlikely to see the drop in the number of functioning centrifuges as an Iranian concession.
They have also rejected two other recent Iranian gestures – allowing IAEA inspectors to see a heavy water plant under construction in Arak and agreeing to improve monitoring at Natanz – as ploys aimed at defusing international pressure.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/28/iran-nuclear-programme-united-nations

So they seem to really want to show that it is for a power plant, but why won't we let them do that, is it only because we are afraid of a nuclear warhead? And if that fear is the only real reason, is that good enough?



My common sense tells me that one or 4 nukes is not much of a danger to us, and would utterly destroy their country and kill all of their leaders if that was the case. So (with them not being not being insane, which is a lot to ask anyone to believe) I would say common sense is on the side of them building a power plant. And the weapon is at best 50/50, with either resulting in as many people dying from the resulting wars, preemptive or reactionary.

I disagree. The US only comes after you if you've done something already. We are pretty tame until someone draws our blood. Think if Russia had their ship fired upon (USS COLE) and sailors killed.... response from Russia..?? Uh huh.

Again Han, Iran was given EVERY opportunity to be open and above board.... no repercussions. Iran has played a shell game for years with the UN, EU, USA, while at the same time, doing deals with KHAN, N. Korea.

If you wanted to have nuclear energy, you need only ask. No country denies another of building a nuclear reactor. The only limitation is, can it be maintained by the host country with a high degree of safety.

It's not about nuclear energy.....

Han. Come on. Just see the subterfuge for what it is.

I fail to believe the same bunch of wacko's who strap bombs to their sons chests and send them off to blow people up are sane enough to be trusted with nuclear energy or nuclear weapons. These people are legitimately insane. They arent rational enough to be trusted not to try to blow anything and everything to smithereens including themselves the first chance they get. If the crazy people wern't the ones in charge it might be different but with countries like Iran the leaders are real live fanatics.

The only answer is to sick the Irish on them. They're the only race of people as crazy as the nice folks in the middle east.

Not that I was for our invasion of Iraq, but we are there now, so we need to get the job done right. That being said we were not attacked by them, and we used 9-11 as a spear head for it, same with Vietnam, I am not that much into military history, but I don't think that we were attacked by them.

Enriched uranium is a kind of uranium in which the percent composition of uranium-235 has been increased through the process of isotope separation. Natural uranium (or NU) is 99.284% 238U isotope, with 235U only constituting about 0.711% of its weight. 235U is the only isotope existing in nature (in any appreciable amount) that is fissionable by thermal neutrons.
Enriched uranium is a critical component for both civil nuclear power generation and military nuclear weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency attempts to monitor and control enriched uranium supplies and processes in its efforts to ensure nuclear power generation safety and curb nuclear weapons proliferation.

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Gas centrifuge


A cascade of gas centrifuges at a U.S. enrichment plant




The gas centrifuge process uses a large number of rotating cylinders in series and parallel formations. Each cylinder's rotation creates a strong centripetal force so that the heavier gas molecules containing 238U move toward the outside of the cylinder and the lighter gas molecules rich in 235U collect closer to the center. It requires much less energy to achieve the same separation than the older gaseous diffusion process, which it has largely replaced and so is the current method of choice and is termed second generation. It has a separation factor per stage of 1.3 relative to gaseous diffusion of 1.005,[4] which translates to about one-fiftieth of the energy requirements. Gas centrifuge techniques produce about 54% of the world's enriched uranium.

The Zippe centrifuge is an improvement on the standard gas centrifuge, the primary difference being the use of heat. The bottom of the rotating cylinders is heated, producing convection currents that move the 235U up the cylinder, where it can be collected by scoops. This improved centrifuge design is used commercially by Urenco to produce nuclear fuel and was used by Pakistan in their nuclear weapons program.

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So centrifuges are used for nuclear power, so we cannot just go off of them having those (and the article I linked above shows that they are not using all the ones they have anymore, which would just mean they have enough for whichever they are doing for now (bomb or energy).

Iran Seeks Ban on Striking Atomic Sites



Iran has asked the United Nations to call a meeting to consider banning attacks on nuclear installations, the semi-official Fars news agency reported. Israel has said it will not tolerate a nuclear Iran and has dropped hints about taking military action against Iran’s enrichment facilities if diplomatic efforts fail to halt the nuclear program. Iran has said its program is purely civilian in nature and cites its right to nuclear power under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Tehran’s request, which asked for a conference of 150 nations to vote on a proposed ban, was made on Wednesday in a letter by Iran’s envoy to the International Atomic Energy Agency, Ali-Asghar Soltaniyeh, according to Fars. Mr. Soltaniyeh asked that Iran’s proposal be considered at the scheduled September meeting of the nuclear agency’s general conference.

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Here they are actually giving credence to my theory of our bombing their facilities and gives a pretty plausible reasoning for the 30 foot concrete roof on their bunker.

India ban on Iran nuclear exports

Indian officials say exports to Iran that could be used in the country's nuclear programme have been banned.

Trade officials said the ban would prevent anything that could be used to enrich uranium from being exported directly or indirectly to Iran.


The restrictions comply with a decision taken last year by the United Nations Security Council.
The Indian government's Communist allies attacked it for voting against Iran at the UN nuclear agency, IAEA.
The Indian government's announcement was made just hours before the planned publication of a UN nuclear agency report which is expected to say Tehran has not complied with the Security Council's demands - opening the way for tougher international sanctions.
India has maintained that it's support for a resolution reporting Iran to the UN Security Council did not detract from its close relations.
Last month, Iran, Pakistan and India agreed on a pricing formula for the delivery of Iranian gas via a $7bn pipeline.
Talks on the 2,600km-long pipeline began in 1994, but have been plagued by disagreements.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6384919.stm

I was trying to find something about it being banned, but I now realize that it is the trade embargo that bans anything that can be used towards their nuclear power. Making a actual ban on them having nuclear power moot point. If everything they need is banned, there is no reason to flat out ban it.


I actually like my idea I put out a couple months back the best. We go there and stabilize their power grid. We could use american made solar panels (Stimulus to the country, and get to see how they work on a massive scale) and if that is not enough then we think about a power plant. But by providing them with the solar panels, they get their power, we get a kick start in a new industry to manufacture and if they continue with the nuclear ambitions even though all their power needs are satisfied, we would then know that was not the case, and then we blow them up with more world support.

No, the US was not attacked by the communists... but our ally was... and the USA responded. We would do and did the same for Britain, France, etc..... The point of all of those treaties and fair trade acts is to have each others backs in times of trouble.

We cannot go there (Iran) Han. They don't want us, they don't like us. They treat Obama just like they treated Bush.... no differently.

Again Han, you think seriously this is about nuclear energy plants?

The Iranians arn't crazy.

No, the US was not attacked by the communists... but our ally was... and the USA responded. We would do and did the same for Britain, France, etc..... The point of all of those treaties and fair trade acts is to have each others backs in times of trouble.

We cannot go there (Iran) Han. They don't want us, they don't like us. They treat Obama just like they treated Bush.... no differently.

Again Han, you think seriously this is about nuclear energy plants?

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There are plenty of times that we have sat back and watched other nations get attacked, or genocide happen without raising a finger. Like WW2, and Rwanda?

And do you blame them not letting the us in? They let the UN in, but that is not good enough for us? I mean seriously just look at people that post on this board, how many of them would allow people to simply come into their house because they think that there may be something bad going on, when they already had other people looking for the same thing.


I really don't know if it is nuclear power or nuclear weapons. But without actual evidence I will say one way or the other we should not act until actual proof is given.

They don't let the UN in Han. Only to where they want to show. This has been the frustration of the last 5 years. Iran constantly delays and cancels inspections and some areas are off limits.

Sound like nuclear energy to you? That bunker sound like nuclear energy to you?

Like I said, if you all still believe that... you are now officially isolated with North Korea, Russia, Iran, China. Good company indeed.

Think about it.

Iranian culture does not allow for people to tell them what to do...

CrackerJax said:

No, the US was not attacked by the communists... but our ally was... and the USA responded. We would do and did the same for Britain, France, etc..... The point of all of those treaties and fair trade acts is to have each others backs in times of trouble.

We cannot go there (Iran) Han. They don't want us, they don't like us. They treat Obama just like they treated Bush.... no differently.

Again Han, you think seriously this is about nuclear energy plants?

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Vietnam was another example of paranoia, 'the communist domino effect'.

cracker jax is crazy... the only reason iran wants nuclear ability is to deter the ever growing imperialistic Israel. PERIOD. they are not going to start any crazy war, it is not in they're best interest.

arab people are not as stupid as you make them sound, in fact, by tradition and history arab ppl and their descendants have and will always be the among the smartest business ppl you ever come across.

the middle-america rednecks, who have sex with their own family aren't a representation of what you consider american leadership, or is it?

so why should a few fanaticals in these countries scare you so much?? it's craaaaaazy.

iran doesn't want to go to war with anyone. it's not an axis of evil, it's just a country, who is full of muslims, not christians,

and full of people who won't bow down to american will. why? cuz they can, cuz they have enough oil to exert influence... america just wants to supress their influence...

and they do have a legitimate concern regarding israel, the only country in the region who has made it an official policy to segregate and remove Palestinians. it's a rogue state, much more than cuba or venezuela.

it's shameful the US sides with israel while this blatant genocide, expropriation, and abuse happens. i am ashamed of my government for this. it is a disgrace, and it is part of the reason these crazy fundamentalist muslim groups form.....

as a deterant

This is my firm belief.

Since Israel is NOWHERE NEAR Iran..... you wanna back that up?

Since Israel has never attacked any country.... you wanna back that up?

You don't know what Imperialism means.... obviously.

see the pic above? see what was allotted by the UN for israel and palestine? see where it stands now? oops!

I personally loath Israel and there disgusting policies.

just because israel is israel now doesn't mean it's always been there... it used to be palestine, it's palestinian land... even in the old testament it says it..... moses led israelis to invade the promised land... it wasn't theirs, they just went in there and took it.... just because a country doesn't exist now, doesn't mean it wasn't there.... palestine used to exist, and now it's just little settlements, and even with that the jews aren't happy.... did you know jerusalem is also a holy city for muslim people, in fact, one of the most important mosques in muslim religion is right beside the huge holy wall every one leans up against....

dnt tell that to a jew, they get pissed off, cuz in their view jerusalem is theirs....

cracker jax is crazy... the only reason iran wants nuclear ability is to deter the ever growing imperialistic Israel. PERIOD. they are not going to start any crazy war, it is not in they're best interest.

arab people are not as stupid as you make them sound, in fact, by tradition and history arab ppl and their descendants have and will always be the among the smartest business ppl you ever come across.

the middle-america rednecks, who have sex with their own family aren't a representation of what you consider american leadership, or is it?

so why should a few fanaticals in these countries scare you so much?? it's craaaaaazy.

iran doesn't want to go to war with anyone. it's not an axis of evil, it's just a country, who is full of muslims, not christians,

and full of people who won't bow down to american will. why? cuz they can, cuz they have enough oil to exert influence... america just wants to supress their influence...

and they do have a legitimate concern regarding israel, the only country in the region who has made it an official policy to segregate and remove Palestinians. it's a rogue state, much more than cuba or venezuela.

it's shameful the US sides with israel while this blatant genocide, expropriation, and abuse happens. i am ashamed of my government for this. it is a disgrace, and it is part of the reason these crazy fundamentalist muslim groups form.....

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Mothafucken nailed it.

Since Israel is NOWHERE NEAR Iran..... you wanna back that up?

Since Israel has never attacked any country.... you wanna back that up?

You don't know what Imperialism means.... obviously.

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CrackerJax, come on man, how could you say something this stupid?

Nowhere near Iran? -not exactly sure what you mean with that..

Never attacked any country? I'm gonna give you a second to rethink that and come back and retract it before I school you on Israeli aggression.

You're livin' in an imperialistic nation bro.

that whole mentality of evil spewing out of the middle east is sort of the mentality that motivated Don Quixote.... i hope mr. cracker jax has had a little bit of elightenment in his life and read that novel... it's a classic...

Paddy, you think Israel can just run over to Iran and invade? Look at a map.

I won't take it back.... show me anytime Israel has invaded any of its neighbors unprovoked. When someone rolls across your borders with tanks, it's okay to defend urself. When terrorists fire rockets into civilian populations (ur friends), it's okay to defend urself.

You should think it through my friend. My statement is accurate.