Iran Update...

CrackerJax

New Member
My point is that folks don't tend to look at the entire picture. One of the mantras for ppl is "it's about oil". Well, it was about much much more than that. The people of Iraq understand this all too well. They are very very glad we did what we did. Funny how they get it......


out. :blsmoke:
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
You really are stupid arent you! The people of Iraq are happy about it??? I have personal contact with people who have family there and people are definately not happy. Electricity supply is erratic with maximum of 10 hrs a day, unless you spend what little you can to chip in and get a community generator. Fuel prices are far higher than they ever were. Security is very poor and the whole country is worried about suicide bombs. Your media may be telling you they are happy but they are not.
A recent mori poll asked just over 1000 people in Basra if they felt more secure after the war and British occupation and over 80% said no!!! Saddam may have been a despot that used horrendous genocidal tactics, but on the wholoe the countries factions new there place and stayed there. You cant say that now. The USA imo only wanted to obtain another foothold in the region by taking Iraq; then It gradually surounds Iran- The bigger picture! Troops in Iraq, troops in Afghanistan etc etc .
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
My point is that folks don't tend to look at the entire picture. One of the mantras for ppl is "it's about oil". Well, it was about much much more than that. The people of Iraq understand this all too well. They are very very glad we did what we did. Funny how they get it......


out. :blsmoke:
Do you think America went into Iraq for Iraq or for America?

This is a very simple question, don't make it more complicated by trying to squeeze around it and avoid answering it, do you think the American military and the people who made the final decisions to invade had the best interest of the Iraqi people in mind as a top priority or not?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
You really are stupid arent you! The people of Iraq are happy about it??? I have personal contact with people who have family there and people are definately not happy. Electricity supply is erratic with maximum of 10 hrs a day, unless you spend what little you can to chip in and get a community generator. Fuel prices are far higher than they ever were. Security is very poor and the whole country is worried about suicide bombs. Your media may be telling you they are happy but they are not.
A recent mori poll asked just over 1000 people in Basra if they felt more secure after the war and British occupation and over 80% said no!!! Saddam may have been a despot that used horrendous genocidal tactics, but on the wholoe the countries factions new there place and stayed there. You cant say that now. The USA imo only wanted to obtain another foothold in the region by taking Iraq; then It gradually surounds Iran- The bigger picture! Troops in Iraq, troops in Afghanistan etc etc .
Polls? uh huh... laughable. I'll take the reelection as a sign of them thanking us. They have not capitulated to the pressures of Iran. They want their freedom, they want their representation. An election is a far greater indication....and vindication that Bush made the right call on Iraq, as did Congress.


out. :blsmoke:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Paddy, we went to war for many reasons, not just a simplistic us or them. Saddam broke the treaty of peace many many times but was never called on it. Even he admitted to having and using WMD's on his own people. he also admitted to seeking a nuke program as soon as the pressure was off. he simply miscalculated about Bush's response after 9/11. Bush made Iraq the central front on Al Queda as did Osama Bin laden. We won there...they lost.


out. :blsmoke:
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
i spent 2 tours in Iraq(well one then 9 months again before gettin hurt) i can honestly say that every single born and bred iraqi i met loved the US and the fact that we saved them from that regime, also its about oil? Iraq has almost no oil why the fuck do you think they invaded kuwait? and no i did not enjoy killing people, i enjoyed killing the murderers who dont deserve life. I often think back and wonder how many hundreds or thousands of innocent Iraqis did i save because i helped to take out those who would blow them up? maybe before you pussy liberals start talking about things you should do a little research past what msnbc tells you, and yes the band of brothers thing is a real part of the military, i have my brothers who i would take a bullet for in a heart beat and i know for a fact they would do the same any time.
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
Paddy, we went to war for many reasons, not just a simplistic us or them. Saddam broke the treaty of peace many many times but was never called on it. Even he admitted to having and using WMD's on his own people. he also admitted to seeking a nuke program as soon as the pressure was off. he simply miscalculated about Bush's response after 9/11. Bush made Iraq the central front on Al Queda as did Osama Bin laden. We won there...they lost.


out. :blsmoke:
thats right paddy saddam has used wmd's in the past(kurtish syrin gas attacks ring a bell? 10,000 kurds dead with one hit) so that whole Bush lied about the wmd is bullshit he had used them before and would have again, even the UN techs sayd he had the materials and could have them built within 2 weeks.
 

suedonimn

Well-Known Member
Do you think America went into Iraq for Iraq or for America?

This is a very simple question, don't make it more complicated by trying to squeeze around it and avoid answering it, do you think the American military and the people who made the final decisions to invade had the best interest of the Iraqi people in mind as a top priority or not?
Both... let me explain. First America did not go there, the U.S. Gov't went there with American Military slaves, yes property of the U.S. Gov't. The U.S. Gov't would not have done so if there were not interest in that area. Second the Iraqi Military slaves would have fought harder if it was not more desirable to have Hussain ousted. I know I might get flack for this statment, but you know it is thhe truth. I never joined the military for one simple fact, I don't want to kill people. It is a well known fact that the U.S. Gov't considers all military personel as PROPERTY of the U.S. Gov't. to volunteer for slavery is not my IDEA of what being American is all about. To volunteer to defend Americans if invaded is what I consider a right. When and if that day ever comes I will be helping Americans in what ever capacity I can, including killing in self defense, but just because some one says "go kill these people for me", I will not serve I will make my own choice in that dept. Back to Iran, why did they not get involved? Because they were more that happy to see Hussain gone, remember Hussain invaded Iran in the 1980's, and was probably going to attempt another invasion after gobbbling up the smaller states like kuwait. But anyway....
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
i spent 2 tours in Iraq(well one then 9 months again before gettin hurt) i can honestly say that every single born and bred iraqi i met loved the US and the fact that we saved them from that regime, also its about oil? Iraq has almost no oil why the fuck do you think they invaded kuwait? and no i did not enjoy killing people, i enjoyed killing the murderers who dont deserve life. I often think back and wonder how many hundreds or thousands of innocent Iraqis did i save because i helped to take out those who would blow them up? maybe before you pussy liberals start talking about things you should do a little research past what msnbc tells you, and yes the band of brothers thing is a real part of the military, i have my brothers who i would take a bullet for in a heart beat and i know for a fact they would do the same any time.
Producers1Total oil
production Exporters2Net oil
exports Consumers3Total oil
consumption Importers4Net oil
imports 1. Saudi Arabia10.72 1. Saudi Arabia8.65 1. United States20.59 1. United States12.22 2. Russia9.67 2. Russia6.57 2. China7.27 2. Japan5.10 3. United States8.37 3. Norway2.54 3. Japan5.22 3. China3.44 4. Iran4.12 4. Iran2.52 4. Russia3.10 4. Germany2.48 5. Mexico3.71 5. United Arab Emirates2.52 5. Germany2.63 5. South Korea2.15 6. China3.84 6. Venezuela2.20 6. India2.53 6. France1.89 7. Canada3.23 7. Kuwait2.15 7. Canada2.22 7. India1.69 8. United Arab Emirates2.94 8. Nigeria2.15 8. Brazil2.12 8. Italy1.56 9. Venezuela2.81 9. Algeria1.85 9. South Korea2.12 9. Spain1.5610. Norway2.7910. Mexico1.6810. Saudi Arabia2.0710. Taiwan0.9411. Kuwait2.6711. Libya1.5211. Mexico2.03 12. Nigeria2.4412. Iraq1.43 12. France 1.97 13. Brazil2.1613. Angola1.36 13. United Kingdom 1.82 14. Iraq2.0114. Kazakhstan1.11 14. Italy 1.71
No oil huh? If there wasnt major isssues with pipeline security the oil produced would be doubled.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Woo is exactly why kids need to stay in school. STAY IN SCHOOL KIDS!!! Don't end up like WOO! lawdy, so dense.


out. :blsmoke:
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Paddy, we went to war for many reasons, not just a simplistic us or them. Saddam broke the treaty of peace many many times but was never called on it. Even he admitted to having and using WMD's on his own people. he also admitted to seeking a nuke program as soon as the pressure was off. he simply miscalculated about Bush's response after 9/11. Bush made Iraq the central front on Al Queda as did Osama Bin laden. We won there...they lost.

Can't answer it huh?

You people can make all the excuses you want about Iraq, or the reasons we invaded, the FACT is, we did not win anything, we lost over 5 thousand American soldiers, damaged our international image beyond repair, spent ourselves into an almost unattainable level of debt, and pissed allllll over the United States Constitution.

What did we "win" in Iraq, CJ?

You spend a lot of time talking about 'what would have happened' or 'what might have happened' if we hadn't invaded, something which you have no idea about and could never possibly predict... unless you're back to your old 'CrackerDamus' ways again. This is not a valid argument to use when talking about supporting the Iraq war as you have no idea, I have no idea...it's a moot point to make, stop bringing it up, you have no clue what you're talking about.

And if you think Bush did such a great thing removing such a horrible dictator who was supposedly developing all these terrible weapons to unleash upon the world... what about Kim Jong Ill? What about Putin? What about all the atrocious shit that happens in Serbia and Bosnia and all over central Africa? Why isn't our government completely up in arms about all that? You know why... because none of those places INTEREST the American government. There is no strategic value to them. So our government will sit back and let any amount of people die for whatever random reasons around the world and you people have NOTHING to say about that, but then when they decide to actually invade a country and start an entire war based on AMERICAN INTERESTS, they feed you this crap about 'he had weapons', 'he was a baaad dictator', 'his people were being oppressed..', and you swallow it down with a smile on your face and like Tiny Tim, ask "please sir, may I have some more?"...

FACT is, this war has never been about the Iraqi people's interests. It's about what America wants, what America 'needs', and what almost everything else in this world always comes down to... money.


i spent 2 tours in Iraq(well one then 9 months again before gettin hurt) i can honestly say that every single born and bred iraqi i met loved the US and the fact that we saved them from that regime, also its about oil? Iraq has almost no oil why the fuck do you think they invaded kuwait? and no i did not enjoy killing people, i enjoyed killing the murderers who dont deserve life. I often think back and wonder how many hundreds or thousands of innocent Iraqis did i save because i helped to take out those who would blow them up? maybe before you pussy liberals start talking about things you should do a little research past what msnbc tells you, and yes the band of brothers thing is a real part of the military, i have my brothers who i would take a bullet for in a heart beat and i know for a fact they would do the same any time.

Iraq is the second largest oil producer in the world behind Saudi Arabia. Oil is one of the main factors involved in this war, to disregard that fact is retarded, of course the oil is important.

Top ten oil reserves by country;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_ten_largest_oil_reserves_by_country.GIF

According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), "Iraq holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves."

While its proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks Iraq second in the work behind Saudi Arabia, EIA estimates that up to 90-percent of the county remains unexplored due to years of wars and sanctions. Unexplored regions of Iraq could yield an additional 100 billion barrels. Iraq's oil production costs are among the lowest in the world.

...yeah, they discovered the oil reserves right before the invasion of Kuwait.

You enjoyed killing people. Murderers, rapists, young, old, religious, atheist... we're all people. Just because your terrorist government tells you who to point your gun at doesn't make anyfucking thing right about it, you're still killing people. Some of it might have been justified, but I'm willing to bet not all of it was, which means you've probably killed innocent people with the mask of 'protecting Americans freedoms' covering your eyes.

It must be a mantra or something, these people are always talking about 'what would have happened' (had they not been there) or 'what might have happened', just like I told CD, none of that shit matters as you and I have no idea what 'might' have happened, speculation is pointless, it's moot, stop bringing it up. It would be like Kennedy saying he completely stopped WW3 because he got rid of the missile sites in Cuba... yeah, maybe he did, but hey...maybe he didn't, who the fuck knows, not you, not me... pointless shit.

Your 'band of brothers' way of life has nothing to do with the military buddy, that's all in your head and the US government uses it against you to manipulate you into thinking it can't be seen anywhere else. Open your eyes.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I did answer it, just not to your liking. I expect you don't use petroleum products, right? Or does your hypocrisy know no bounds... :lol:

out. :blsmoke:
 

suedonimn

Well-Known Member
Can't answer it huh?

You people can make all the excuses you want about Iraq, or the reasons we invaded, the FACT is, we did not win anything, we lost over 5 thousand American soldiers, damaged our international image beyond repair, spent ourselves into an almost unattainable level of debt, and pissed allllll over the United States Constitution.

What did we "win" in Iraq, CJ?

You spend a lot of time talking about 'what would have happened' or 'what might have happened' if we hadn't invaded, something which you have no idea about and could never possibly predict... unless you're back to your old 'CrackerDamus' ways again. This is not a valid argument to use when talking about supporting the Iraq war as you have no idea, I have no idea...it's a moot point to make, stop bringing it up, you have no clue what you're talking about.

And if you think Bush did such a great thing removing such a horrible dictator who was supposedly developing all these terrible weapons to unleash upon the world... what about Kim Jong Ill? What about Putin? What about all the atrocious shit that happens in Serbia and Bosnia and all over central Africa? Why isn't our government completely up in arms about all that? You know why... because none of those places INTEREST the American government. There is no strategic value to them. So our government will sit back and let any amount of people die for whatever random reasons around the world and you people have NOTHING to say about that, but then when they decide to actually invade a country and start an entire war based on AMERICAN INTERESTS, they feed you this crap about 'he had weapons', 'he was a baaad dictator', 'his people were being oppressed..', and you swallow it down with a smile on your face and like Tiny Tim, ask "please sir, may I have some more?"...

FACT is, this war has never been about the Iraqi people's interests. It's about what America wants, what America 'needs', and what almost everything else in this world always comes down to... money.





Iraq is the second largest oil producer in the world behind Saudi Arabia. Oil is one of the main factors involved in this war, to disregard that fact is retarded, of course the oil is important.

Top ten oil reserves by country;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_ten_largest_oil_reserves_by_country.GIF

According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), "Iraq holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves."

While its proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks Iraq second in the work behind Saudi Arabia, EIA estimates that up to 90-percent of the county remains unexplored due to years of wars and sanctions. Unexplored regions of Iraq could yield an additional 100 billion barrels. Iraq's oil production costs are among the lowest in the world.

...yeah, they discovered the oil reserves right before the invasion of Kuwait.

You enjoyed killing people. Murderers, rapists, young, old, religious, atheist... we're all people. Just because your terrorist government tells you who to point your gun at doesn't make anyfucking thing right about it, you're still killing people. Some of it might have been justified, but I'm willing to bet not all of it was, which means you've probably killed innocent people with the mask of 'protecting Americans freedoms' covering your eyes.

It must be a mantra or something, these people are always talking about 'what would have happened' (had they not been there) or 'what might have happened', just like I told CD, none of that shit matters as you and I have no idea what 'might' have happened, speculation is pointless, it's moot, stop bringing it up. It would be like Kennedy saying he completely stopped WW3 because he got rid of the missile sites in Cuba... yeah, maybe he did, but hey...maybe he didn't, who the fuck knows, not you, not me... pointless shit.

Your 'band of brothers' way of life has nothing to do with the military buddy, that's all in your head and the US government uses it against you to manipulate you into thinking it can't be seen anywhere else. Open your eyes.
Mr. Bater, I have to say the reason for the U.S. Gov't staying out of certain places is it would probably start an even bigger war than what transpired. It all depends who is involved, behind the scenes. As for Bosnia, Croatia, Serb deal, Americans were there, under the umbrella of the U.N. Maybe not so much in man power, but surely the Navy Seals took out many of the leaders that started the whole mess. Where ever the U.N. is we are there either with personnel, equipment(usually), and always MONEY. We just sent the U.N. over $900,000 to be used exclusively in Iran of all places. It will most likely be misappropriated, and directed toward Hamas. I am sure they will use it to rebuild(ya'right).
 

joepro

Well-Known Member
I'm reading this FBI profiler book and a few chapters back the subject was eyewitness accounts.
In short, 10 people can be eyewitnesses to a crime, 3 stories won't match the crime sceen or the other statements.
A % won't be able to get the color of clothes right and the police use all the statements to piece together the crime as thats the only way to recreate the reality of what had happend.
kinda relates to this thread, no?.....

The first chapter was wild!(since im all of topic n all)
FBI claims that we produce more serial killers than other country.
and the shocking numbers are 1000 serial killers per large city.(just chilin I guess)

hahaha ok back to the pissing contest.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Paddy is a prime indicator of my previous post...not able to take in the larger issues. Merely left to focus in on the spin of others....


out. :blsmoke:
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
I did answer it, just not to your liking. I expect you don't use petroleum products, right? Or does your hypocrisy know no bounds... :lol:

out. :blsmoke:
When did I say anything about using petroleum products?

So by me disagreeing with how and why the oil is gathered (in the middle east, apparently you're disregarding all the other LEGAL means of gathering oil...), I'm not allowed to use anything petroleum based, otherwise that would make me a hypocrite? It is impossible to not use petroleum based products in our world today, do you have any idea how many things are created from petrol?

Exactly how our money system is, I'm completely against that system, but do you see any substitute available? What, do you expect me to go try to barter potato's and rice because I don't agree with they monetary policy?! Great line of logic you've come up with this time...

Paddy is a prime indicator of my previous post...not able to take in the larger issues. Merely left to focus in on the spin of others....


out. :blsmoke:
Again, all you can ever do is spit random shit that doesn't make any sense to anyone other than you without ever addressing any points I make.

-why the rage from the American government over Iraq and not other countries with worse dictators, worse 'terrorism' problems, and a greater ability to develop you're oh so feared "WMD's!"?

You can't answer that.

-why the unyielding support for Israel and the terrorist tactics they use?

Talk about a hypocrite, fuck!
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Paddy, put down the pipe!!

I never said anything about not using currency...

As for oil, I'm all for getting our own and getting off the Middle east bandwagon. Only problem is the Democrats. It is a problem I agree. We are awash in oil, but no dice say the political barons. Oh well.

Oil or no oil, i believe we would have invaded Iraq, the first time and the second, so it's a moot point to me.

I agree with you about other dictators out there, but we usually try and focus on folks we actually have treaties with (that's what they are for) and the Middle east, because it's a powder keg and the world economy needs the petroleum (not just us). It's a global market and someone has to step up to the plate. The only other nation that has been willing to fill that role is Russia. Which would you prefer?

out. :blsmoke:
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Paddy, put down the pipe!!

I never said anything about not using currency...

As for oil, I'm all for getting our own and getting off the Middle east bandwagon. Only problem is the Democrats. It is a problem I agree. We are awash in oil, but no dice say the political barons. Oh well.

Oil or no oil, i believe we would have invaded Iraq, the first time and the second, so it's a moot point to me.

I agree with you about other dictators out there, but we usually try and focus on folks we actually have treaties with (that's what they are for) and the Middle east, because it's a powder keg and the world economy needs the petroleum (not just us). It's a global market and someone has to step up to the plate. The only other nation that has been willing to fill that role is Russia. Which would you prefer?

out.

Dude, I brought up the currency analogy because you claimed I'm being a hypocrite by using petroleum based products while being against the way some of the oil produced around the world is gathered. They are very similar, I cannot live my daily life without using oil based products, even if I tried, it is an impossibility, exactly how I couldn't live my day to day life without using money, also, an impossibility with the way the current systems are set up. There's nothing hypocritical about it. Do you understand?

It's always the democrats, huh? - No CJ, it's the POLITICIANS, not just the democrats. Tell me, if the democrats are all a bunch of liberals who are against the wars, why would they be against an idea that would increase American oil production and simultaneously ween us off foreign oil, effectively decreasing our involvement in middle eastern affairs? .... because they want to save the environment? lmfao

If Iraq did not have any oil, we would not be there.

Wrong CJ, our government focuses on what is best for our government, and that's it. They have power, they want to keep it, they will do anything they can to do that. A simple way for you to prove me wrong if you don't agree is find me one instance where the American government has done something for some country and expected absolutely nothing in return. (every single government on earth is in it for themselves, not just the American government)
 

CrackerJax

New Member
If you look at who is overwhelmingly against oil exploration , you will find it is the democrats by a WIDE WIDE margin.

Iraq was warned over and over to get out of Kuwait ( a separate nation ), they did not. Warning after warning was dismissed, hence desert storm.

Saddam then violated the peace treaty he signed over and over again during the Clinton years, but with no response. Then the oil for food program was enacted and promptly corrupted by Saddam and several EU big wigs including the very top tiers of the UN. This in and of itself was MORE than enough cause to re engage. certainly the legal thresholds were met at that point alone. After 9/11, it was just a calculated but horrific mistake on Saddams part that a blind eye to his violations would go unanswered. He thought it would be business as usual like with Clinton. Another mistake...one he admitted himself. Both invasions were completely legal and justified and voted upon. Saddam was using Al Queda for his own ends, but after 9/11 that scheme turned around and bit him on the arse. Pretty simple. He realized it before his death.

Of course our govt. is looking out for US, that's their JOB. You are free to move on out if you don't agree with it. We still have open borders, use them. :peace:

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