Income tax and freedom!

Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Now a little more info for you in the recent past and today.

The federal tax system is the nation's biggest welfare system. In 1995, special tax breaks cost $456 billion. Most of these tax breaks went to rich individuals and corporations. Corporations got another $86 billion in direct subsidies. By contrast, welfare for poor people (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) cost the federal government $22 billion. Yet, to hear the politicians talk, social welfare programs are breaking the federal budget.

Since 1960, the tax structure has become less progressive. In the early 1960s, there were the first of many capital gains tax cuts. Then corporate income tax rates were cut. Then tax rates on personal income taxes for the highest tax brackets were cut. Then regressive payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare were raised dramatically in the early 1980s, while tax rates for the rich were cut once again. Today, the federal tax structure is less progressive than it has ever been. We favor restructuring the federal tax structure so that it is progressive, with higher rates for high-income people than for low income people.

Another serious problem with the existing tax structure is tax rate competition among states and localities. It has a virtual civil war between states and localities offering tax breaks, subsidies, and other government favors to lure corporate investment into their jurisdictions. Instead of corporations competing for customers, we have states and cities competing for corporations. In addition, unfunded federal spending mandates force local governments to raise regressive property and sales taxes, further shifting the costs of government on to middle and low income people. To remedy these problems, we favor centralized collection of most taxes by the federal government, combined with revenue sharing with Community Assemblies, municipalities, counties, and states where decentralized administration of government services is rendered more democratic and accountable.


In case you haven't noticed, since 1960 gross domestic product has fallen off more and more. And yet they started cutting tax for Corporations and the Rich. I wonder why that is Vi? Hmmmmm?
 
B

bleorg

Active Member
Yeah Vi, it sure was an experience, especially for a guy in his early twenties. The best part I forgot to mention, when we first started to deliberate, we held a quick vote and only 2 of us voted guilty. It took most of the day to make everyone realize that the "reasonable doubt" a lot of them had was just a smokescrean thrown up by a decent defense lawyer. You could see in the faces of the witnesses(Doctors and Nurses), that something really bad had definitely taken place. Like I said, afterwards we all learned that this guy was a lot worse than we were allowed to hear, but he was only on trial for this one incident.

I have to agree with you on what to do if asked for your views on marijuana. How can a guy get a fair trial if the whole jury is just people who think pot smokers should be in jail?
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
One More factoid Vi,

During World War I rates rose in an almost vertical ascent to 77 percent. During the prosperous 1920s the tax structure was scaled down, only to be reversed by huge Treasury deficits during the depression years. With the entry of the United States into World War II, taxation once again became directly connected with national survival and the top rate reached 91 percent. In 1943 Congress imposed a withholding system on income tax payers, making collections easier and doubling the government's yield in the first year, an important revenue boost during the war. Although Roosevelt vetoed the withholding bill as neglectful of the welfare of the low- and medium-income groups, the bill became law without his signature. At the same time, however, exemptions were lowered and the base broadened so that what had been a class tax became a mass tax. This can be seen in the numbers of people required to pay in two significant years: in 1939, 4 million people and in 1945, 42.7 million. Today the reach of the tax is shown in figures for 1989 indicating that the irs processed 107.7 million individual returns. This number will rise, the agency estimates, to 118.3 million in 1995. By a wide margin, the income tax is the largest single source of federal receipts.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Velly interesting, except I'm too dense to make head nor tails out of it. All I know is the plutocrats want to eliminate it and with the fed running the country, I almost have to agree with them. We need some kind of balance taxation, I'd really like to kick the Bankers out of the equation. I realize it aint that simple, Simon, but there needs to be a major overhaul of our monetary system whereby we don't spend every dime of our tax money on interest for rich bankers! Some Brainiac could figure it out, Hell I could even come up with a simple plan.
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
My Point is that lowering taxes only boost the economy short term, but long term tax cuts drive an economy downward.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Dankdude said:
My Point is that lowering taxes only boost the economy short term, but long term tax cuts drive an economy downward.
Click to expand...
So If I agree with this, are you responding to Vis assertion that the tax cuts have been responsible for the "booming Economy". It's has only boomed for the richest 10%. If the Income tax could be taken away from the FED and the FED eliminated, I think it would be a workable progressive tax. But with the FED involved in stealing the money, Then we must eliminate it and start over. Fuck those Bankers, let them go Bankrupt. We also need to nationalize the debt owed to other countries like China that holds Billions in US treasury bonds, tell them to go after the rotten bankers for their debt. I realize this is probably not workable, But some changes need to be made to wrest control of our monetary system from rich Bankers!
 
Chronic_Productionz

Chronic_Productionz

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Vi, you might find this interesting, after watching this I can see why you are so against the Income tax. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...dom+to+fascism I agree with the arguements presented here, I just feel there needs to be a citizen funded pool of money to take care of the less fortunate. I'm not in favor of bankers running the country and of the citizens having to pay the bankers interest on the borrowing of the federal government. That is highly oportunistic on the few Bankers whom profit from this arangement. I don't know how to stop or revamp this system but agree that it is out of control. If this makes you feel vindicated, then so be it. I guess I didn't fully understand the scope of the Income tax. Like I said, something needs to replace it for the welfare of the society, but the Bankers need to be shut out of the equation! This is scary stuff!
Click to expand...

I thank you for the link to that video. I am currently about to email this video to a large group of News Stations Newspapers and whatever other media I can get to listen to me... We all need to realize if we don't pay income taxes because it's not a law we'd have MORE money in our pockets so all of our nations families would not struggle as much as they do.. I'm almost 20 years old I will be in about a week and a half and if I didn't pay income taxes I would already be living in a nice house have a better car and NOT be in 3,000 dollars worth of debt through credit cards Cell phone Bills and everything else... We all as americans need to come together and bring the IRS and Federal Income taxation DOWN so we can live better, healthier more fullfilling lives!
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Chronic_Productionz said:
I thank you for the link to that video. I am currently about to email this video to a large group of News Stations Newspapers and whatever other media I can get to listen to me... We all need to realize if we don't pay income taxes because it's not a law we'd have MORE money in our pockets so all of our nations families would not struggle as much as they do.. I'm almost 20 years old I will be in about a week and a half and if I didn't pay income taxes I would already be living in a nice house have a better car and NOT be in 3,000 dollars worth of debt through credit cards Cell phone Bills and everything else... We all as americans need to come together and bring the IRS and Federal Income taxation DOWN so we can live better, healthier more fullfilling lives!
Click to expand...
I think you'll find massive rejection by the media as they don't want the wrath of the IRS decending upon them, But I say go ahead and try. If just one would air this in prime time, It might change some minds!
 
Chronic_Productionz

Chronic_Productionz

Well-Known Member
That's the problem. Everyone is more affraid of their own government than their own personal enemies. I will do whatever I have to do to get this to the massive of American Citizens. There's already people out there doing this but it's obviously not working. Maybe time for a new perspective? That's what I will bring who ever hears of an average regular 20 year old American fighting for the rights of the American citizens? You don't. Maybe if we start showing that this isn't a problem that just business people in suits care about then MAYBE it will be better and make more of an impact. We could all live much better lives without income tax. We wouldn't have to worry so much about bills because we'd have the money that we EARNED to pay for them!.. Iuno.. I feel that it's the right thing to do... First income tax whats next dictatorship????

iuno thanks for the encouragement though!
 
pauliojr

pauliojr

Well-Known Member
I actually saw this entire movie and it is excellent!!! All true facts and all are proven. Income Tax is fraud by the government.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
what happened to that guy in NH? did the gvnmnt extract him from his fort in Waco fashion yet?
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Thanks for the reminder, 7x. I had forgotten about that guy. Hmmm ... a Google search is in order.

Vi

PS: Is Janet Reno in Hell yet?
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Here's an article:


CONCORD, N.H. — A man who has holed up with armed supporters in his fortress-like house for most of his tax evasion trial was found guilty Thursday, along with his wife, of engaging in an elaborate scheme to avoid paying federal income taxes for a decade.

Ed Brown has said he will defend himself against capture if necessary; U.S. marshals said they have no plan of escalating the situation.

A jury decided the Browns plotted to hide their income and avoid taxes on Elaine Brown's income of $1.9 million between 1996 and 2003. Over 10 years, they also used $215,890 of postal money orders broken into increments just below the reporting threshold to pay for their hilltop compound and for Elaine Brown's dental offices.

A jury also found she didn't pay adequate taxes for her practice's employees, leading to a total of 17 felony convictions.

"I just hope this (verdict) sends a message to those who would rely on frivolous tax theories," Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Morse said afterward.
Ed Brown heard of the verdict in the middle of an interview with a radio station. "The verdict is in. I can guarantee you all hell's going to break loose," he told WNTK-FM in New London.

He later said, "It's all bogus charges. None of these charges are lawful."
Ed Brown stayed in his wooded, 110-acre home this week. The large, cement-walled house features a watchtower that offers 360-degree views of the rural setting. He said the home is capable of generating enough electricity to operate if cut off from the main grid.

"My life is destroyed, what more can I say?" Brown said when reached for a brief phone conversation. "I lost my wife and she lost her business."
Brown said he expected federal agents to swarm his property soon.

"Live free or die," he said, quoting Gen. John Stark and the state's motto. "What else can I say?"

Brown and about 25 supporters said they will defend themselves against capture if necessary. Bernie Bastian, a supporter who said he was carrying two guns, said they would stand with their friend.

"He's here at the house, and he's not leaving of his own free will," Bastian said.

It's unclear how many others were carrying weapons.
"We don't like to talk about that. It's cold up here. People up here are wearing their jackets," Bastian said.

The frenzy came up during the question of leaving Elaine Brown out on bail pending the couple's April 24 sentencing. Judge Steven McAuliffe reminded Brown that she was, under no circumstances, to return to the home.

"I don't want her to barricade herself with her husband up there," McAuliffe said.

Brown said his way of handling the case is not hers.

"It's not in my mind-set or my character," Elaine Brown said. "I have no intention of returning as long as he's there."

Ed Brown is in contempt of court and has violated his bail conditions, Morse said.

"Mr. Brown has indicated he's rather die than serve a prison sentence. ... I just hope Ed decides to end this in a way that doesn't result in harm to him or his wife or anyone else involved in bringing this matter to justice," Morse said.

On Wednesday, Brown told reporters at his home: "If I should be killed or imprisoned, or my wife is killed or imprisoned, or both, those responsible will join us."

U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier said Thursday that members of his staff continued talking by telephone with Brown, but had no plans to confront him. It could be months before the Browns are sentenced and marshals have to consider how to seize the Browns' assets, possibly including their home.
Click here for more Crime news.

"We've established a good line of communication, all of our conversations have been amicable and friendly, and that's how we expect they will continue," Monier said.

The Browns, who were charged with conspiring to evade taxes, conspiring to disguise large financial transactions and disguising large transactions, maintained there was no law requiring them to pay federal income taxes.

Elaine Brown, who earned most of the couple's income, attended proceedings and accepted a court-appointed attorney to help her. She considered, then rejected a plea bargain earlier this week. McAuliffe has allowed her to stay with her son, who lives in Worcester, Mass., but not in her home.

She testified she had tried to work out a payment plan with the Internal Revenue Service in the early 1990s after her tax bill significantly exceeded her estimates one year, the Concord Monitor reported.

She said the IRS didn't respond for months, then demanded that she pay her bill in full, plus interest and penalties, even though she had made payments. She said she eventually refused to pay when she later learned of an additional fine for $3,300 and the money was seized from her bank account.
"Some people are drawn to the anti-tax movements and the false representation that there is no legal requirement to file and pay taxes.

Today's verdict clearly reaffirms the repeated rejection of these arguments in the courts," IRS Special Agent Douglas Bricker said in a statement.

On Thursday, a jury found that the couple spent $215,890 through 311 postal money orders on real estate principal. The couple purchased four, $700 postal money orders at a time to pay their bills. By staying under what was then a $3,000 threshold, they avoided federal reporting and intended to keep the government guessing about their income.

The jury found the Browns must forfeit $215,000, at least part of which must by satisfied by giving up their home or the dental practice's offices.
Ed Brown, a retired exterminator, stayed home to protest a system he said had already convicted him and a media he said was in search of soundbites over truth.

"Most Americans would cower and cringe and raise their hands and surrender like a good little slave," he said this week.

"I won't. Under no circumstances. I do not tolerate cowardliness, oppression, bulliness, and I certainly don't tolerate a federal agency that has absolutely zero jurisdiction in my state, never mind in my county, in my town."

During the past few decades, Brown has claimed membership in several anti-government and militia groups including the Constitution Rangers of the Continental Congress of 1777, the Constitution Defense Militia and the UnAmerican Activities Investigations Commission, which he founded. FAIR USE NOTICE: The above may be copyrighted material, and the use of it on LibertyPost.org may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available on a non-profit basis for educational and discussion purposes only. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in 17 USC § 107. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
won't. Under no circumstances. I do not tolerate cowardliness, oppression, bulliness, and I certainly don't tolerate a federal agency that has absolutely zero jurisdiction in my state, never mind in my county, in my town."
While I admire this mans courage of his convictions, I feel it rather harsh to risk years in jail by confronting them. If He has the 215,000, It certainly would be my choice to pay. This man is a self described activist, so he can expect the full force to come down on him. Thank God we have men with this kind of courage. This needs to be well documented and stored in History, never to be lost or forgotten so our grandkids will know how we ended up on prison planet.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
i believe that Janet R. came to us from hell Vi, she was on a sort of work release program from what i hear.

U.S. marshals said they have no plan of escalating the situation

the gvnmnt agencies have certainly take a reversal in how they treat citizens since her reign.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
I think they got more flack from the public over Waco and Ruby Ridge than we can ever imagine.

Vi
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top