In America today, who has it worse?

londonfog said:

The government makes sure markets don't knowing sell spoiled food. Are you against that

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I'm against fraudulent sales. Although your assumption about the role the government plays is flawed, maybe another time I'll explain that one to you.


So, who owns you? Who owns your property ? You or somebody else?

londonfog said:

that was a yes or no question. Lets try it once more
Do you feel a man has the right to deny service to another based on the color of skin.

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If they don't have a right to peacefully not associate with somebody, wouldn't that mean the person or entity forcing the association in some way has acquired ownership over them via violent means?

Who owns you and your property ? Somebody else or you?

Rob Roy said:

I'm against fraudulent sales. Although your assumption about the role the government plays is flawed, maybe another time I'll explain that one to you.


So, who owns you? Who owns your property ? You or somebody else?

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ok so now the FDA has nothing to do with food inspection
I own my business and I follow the rules so I don't hurt the environment, which in turn could hurt he next man and/or his business.

londonfog said:

ok so now the FDA has nothing to do with food inspection
I own my business and I follow the rules so I don't hurt the environment, which in turn could hurt he next man and/or his business.

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I see you haven't answered the questions I've asked.


Do you own yourself, but not other people? If you do own yourself (and I believe that you do) would you want others to make you serve them against your will?

I suppose you are afraid to ponder the questions I've asked. It's okay, that cognitive dissonance monster you feed is pretty scary isn't he?

Rob Roy said:

I see you haven't answered the questions I've asked.


Do you own yourself, but not other people? If you do own yourself (and I believe that you do) would you want others to make you serve them against your will?

I suppose you are afraid to ponder the questions I've asked. It's okay, that cognitive dissonance monster you feed is pretty scary isn't he?

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I answered the question . You refuse to accept the answer.
If I did not want to serve certain people, I would make my business PRIVATE and call it a CLUB whilst charging a membership.
Unlike you I have ZERO problems serving ALL

unfortunatly for rob roy no man is an island so his argument mute. all your choices effect others, so if you cant hurt others, that limits your choices you are not free to make any choice.we vote that means the majority makes laws thats the closest you will get to your world. oh look thats where we live now your just now becoming the minority so things are shifting to fast and its scary i know but you will be ok .you should do as you please cause you own you thats funny.

There was a time when the Federal Government needed to step in and bust some heads to protect people from oppressive state and local laws.

In the 1950's it wasn't the owner of the restaurant necessarily that was denying blacks a seat and service inside. State and local law compelled him to keep it closed to blacks.

Fast forward to present day and there isn't a state and i dare say a locality that would pass laws forbidding equal treatment of blacks.

There are still individuals who would deny blacks services or goods.

If those people were allowed to deny services today, we would need to protect them more than protect blacks.

I'd wager even in a mostly white town in Mississippi I'd wager these guys would be put out of business rather quickly due to the vast majority of whites not wanting to patron such a business.

There was a "what would you do" hidden camera show on TV where a business was discriminating against a minority in a predominantly white Texas town. A significant percent of people were vocally upset at witnessing this. I don't think such a place would stay in business very long.

londonfog said:

I answered the question . You refuse to accept the answer.
If I did not want to serve certain people, I would make my business PRIVATE and call it a CLUB whilst charging a membership.
Unlike you I have ZERO problems serving ALL

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No, you shifted the question sideways and avoided the real question and then blathered something about "obeying the rules" which means that you think some people CAN and SHOULD control other people, even if the people being controlled are leaving you alone.

So, it can now be inferred that you think it is okay to force people to serve you....and that you have no understanding of what a property right is when it is in reference to other people.

I own me, you own you, neither of us owns other people or their justly acquired property. Also the coercive government doesn't own me, but I think they own you given your lack of response.

SmokeyDan said:

There was a time when the Federal Government needed to step in and bust some heads to protect people from oppressive state and local laws.

In the 1950's it wasn't the owner of the restaurant necessarily that was denying blacks a seat and service inside. State and local law compelled him to keep it closed to blacks.

Fast forward to present day and there isn't a state and i dare say a locality that would pass laws forbidding equal treatment of blacks.

There are still individuals who would deny blacks services or goods.

If those people were allowed to deny services today, we would need to protect them more than protect blacks.

I'd wager even in a mostly white town in Mississippi I'd wager these guys would be put out of business rather quickly due to the vast majority of whites not wanting to patron such a business.

There was a "what would you do" hidden camera show on TV where a business was discriminating against a minority in a predominantly white Texas town. A significant percent of people were vocally upset at witnessing this. I don't think such a place would stay in business very long.

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The federal government is guilty of racism, mass murder and theft of property and peoples right of self ownership. I hardly think that entity is the fairy godmother of justice. If you don't believe me, state your full name here and tell the people that monitor these sites to suck your dick.

I agree with you that individuals who practice discrimination of others based on race would not be in business long as most people would shun them. That is the proper way to solve the problem. Congratulations for concluding that.

Rob Roy said:

No, you shifted the question sideways and avoided the real question and then blathered something about "obeying the rules" which means that you think some people CAN and SHOULD control other people, even if the people being controlled are leaving you alone.

So, it can now be inferred that you think it is okay to force people to serve you....and that you have no understanding of what a property right is when it is in reference to other people.

I own me, you own you, neither of us owns other people or their justly acquired property. Also the coercive government doesn't own me, but I think they own you given your lack of response.

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sorry guy can't have a world were people can just do what they want. Reason why we have laws. again if you don't want to serve others based on what ever sick reason you have, you can always open a PRIVATE CLUB...what part of that you don't understand.

londonfog said:

If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation

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Because the answer is obvious, I don't need to ask him. His is a property rights stance that is obvious to "nearly" everyone.

Are you OK with denial of service based on reasons other than being black? Can property owners discriminate for other reasons? Why is it worse to deny me service because I'm black than it is to deny me service because I"m over 6' tall? Or have a lisp? Or black hair? Or certain eye colors? Or favorite sports team? I can legally not serve you if you are born in Tuscon as my reason unless you are x y or z. How does this create equality in your mind?

H R Puff N Stuff said:

unfortunatly for rob roy no man is an island so his argument mute. all your choices effect others, so if you cant hurt others, that limits your choices you are not free to make any choice.we vote that means the majority makes laws thats the closest you will get to your world. oh look thats where we live now your just now becoming the minority so things are shifting to fast and its scary i know but you will be ok .you should do as you please cause you own you thats funny.

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Sometimes really good dope can a person unintelligible eh?

ginwilly said:

Because the answer is obvious, I don't need to ask him. His is a property rights stance that is obvious to "nearly" everyone.

Are you OK with denial of service based on reasons other than being black? Can property owners discriminate for other reasons? Why is it worse to deny me service because I'm black than it is to deny me service because I"m over 6' tall? Or have a lisp? Or black hair? Or certain eye colors? Or favorite sports team? I can legally not serve you if you are born in Tuscon as my reason unless you are x y or z. How does this create equality in your mind?

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If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation

londonfog said:

sorry guy can't have a world were people can just do what they want. Reason why we have laws. again if you don't want to serve others based on what ever sick reason you have, you can always open a PRIVATE CLUB...what part of that you don't understand.

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But you don't have to open a private club to deny service based on whatever sick reason, as long as that reason isn't x y or z.

Also, the fact that I don't, you don't, and most people here don't know of any private clubs that deny service based on skin color probably means the problem isn't as bad as you imagine. Condy Rice is a member at Augusta National, I'd say that's a huge shift from the past.

londonfog said:

sorry guy can't have a world were people can just do what they want. Reason why we have laws. again if you don't want to serve others based on what ever sick reason you have, you can always open a PRIVATE CLUB...what part of that you don't understand.

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No the reason why most laws exist is for some people to maintain control over others and perpetuate a fraudulent and coercive system.

You are right, people should NOT do "anything they want", that is precisely why the concept of property exists. You get to do what you want with yourself and your justly acquired property, but you don't get to force others to use their body or property to serve you unless all parties are consenting. I really don't think it is necessary for me to insult your intelligence, given that you are doing fine on your own.

ginwilly said:

But you don't have to open a private club to deny service based on whatever sick reason, as long as that reason isn't x y or z.

Also, the fact that I don't, you don't, and most people here don't know of any private clubs that deny service based on skin color probably means the problem isn't as bad as you imagine. Condy Rice is a member at Augusta National, I'd say that's a huge shift from the past.

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If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation. You wasting your time. Im now not even bothering to read what you type. This is the message you will receive going forward.

londonfog said:

If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation

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Because it's been asked and answered over and over, you just won't give up for some reason until you get to call RR racist for his stance that has nothing to do with skin color.

I guess it's your reality though, you are welcome to it, it's just sad to me how skin color is at the forefront of all of your arguments.

londonfog said:

If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation. You wasting your time. Im now not even bothering to read what you type. This is the message you will receive going forward.

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translation = I have run into my cognitive dissonance and it scares me.

Rob Roy said:

No the reason why most laws exist is for some people to maintain control over others and perpetuate a fraudulent and coercive system.

You are right, people should NOT do "anything they want", that is precisely why the concept of property exists. You get to do what you want with yourself and your justly acquired property, but you don't get to force others to use their body or property to serve you unless all parties are consenting. I really don't think it is necessary for me to insult your intelligence, given that you are doing fine on your own.

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You have your believe and thank bejesus that the majority think you are wrong. Even to have your sick way of thinking we would still need a law to make it so.

ginwilly said:

Because it's been asked and answered over and over, you just won't give up for some reason until you get to call RR racist for his stance that has nothing to do with skin color.

I guess it's your reality though, you are welcome to it, it's just sad to me how skin color is at the forefront of all of your arguments.

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If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation. You wasting your time. Im now not even bothering to read what you type. This is the message you will receive going forward.