In America today, who has it worse?

SmokeyDan said:

Have you not given any thought into how that would work in practice?

It would have to be a one generational government, with 100% agreement on who the leaders and what the laws are.

If anyone was born and grew up they would get a voice in all past decisions that affected them. What happens the first time someone grows up who does not like an existing law or maybe someone changes their mind. Then you have coercion.

Rob, it's not a real world concept you have.

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I suppose if you read some of the books I've suggested you might gain a different perspective.

I've given alot of thought to how a world that isn't full of coercion would work....it's part of what I do.

If a person doesn't want to be part of something, they should have the option to opt out, if they don't, THAT is where coercion is birthed. The point you tried to make is, "what happens if everybody isn't under the same set of rules"? Well, that's a good question you didn't ask....care to explore that?

londonfog said:

do you think you have the right to piss in the coffee in a coffee shop you owned. I mean you do own said coffee shop.

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Only if they need a warmup and agreed to it.

Rob Roy said:

Only if they need a warmup and agreed to it.

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Guy it would violate health codes. It's a reason why some things are not allowed. You are one sick individual and I would never want to live in your fucked up world.

londonfog said:

Guy it would violate health codes. It's a reason why some things are not allowed. You are one sick individual and I would never want to live in your fucked up world.

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That's a red herring strawman sidestep.

In my world, you own yourself and your justly acquired property, but you don't own others. Why wouldn't you want to live in that world again?

Rob Roy said:

That's a red herring strawman sidestep.

In my world, you own yourself and your justly acquired property, but you don't own others. Why wouldn't you want to live in that world again?

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because your world would have people denying service based on color of skin and your coffee would taste like piss

londonfog said:

do you think you have the right to piss in the coffee in a coffee shop you owned. I mean you do own said coffee shop.

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I don't completely agree with RR's position but it's painfully clear you don't understand it. How many times has he repeated he believes it is wrong to cause harm against others. Pissing in coffee without consent of the coffee drinker goes against that grain. I don't need that spelled out, I'm curious as to why you do? You seem fairly intelligent.

He never mentions race, in fact, he's stated over and over skin color has nothing to do with his position yet you and Buck continually assign that to him. Why is that? Is it that skin color plays such a significant role in your life that it's impossible for you to believe it's not the same for others?

Rob Roy has the most consistent philosophy of any of us here. He's been clear and concise when not forced off the tracks by race baiters.

I don't know what's happened to you in your life to make skin color the central focus of all conversation, but I don't think you are the norm anymore, or at least I hope not. We are trending away from that thought process thankfully, a little help from the race baiters (or less "help") would be appreciated.

ginwilly said:

I don't completely agree with RR's position but it's painfully clear you don't understand it. How many times has he repeated he believes it is wrong to cause harm against others. Pissing in coffee without consent of the coffee drinker goes against that grain. I don't need that spelled out, I'm curious as to why you do? You seem fairly intelligent.

He never mentions race, in fact, he's stated over and over skin color has nothing to do with his position yet you and Buck continually assign that to him. Why is that? Is it that skin color plays such a significant role in your life that it's impossible for you to believe it's not the same for others?

Rob Roy has the most consistent philosophy of any of us here. He's been clear and concise when not forced off the tracks by race baiters.

I don't know what's happened to you in your life to make skin color the central focus of all conversation, but I don't think you are the norm anymore, or at least I hope not. We are trending away from that thought process thankfully, a little help from the race baiters (or less "help") would be appreciated.

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GTFO...His views represents discrimination
ask him if he feel that a man has the right to not serve blacks in a restaurant

londonfog said:

because your world would have people denying service based on color of skin and your coffee would taste like piss

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Obviously pissing in somebodies coffee is not acceptable and would be fraud if it were done in a secretive way.



So, you never answer why you think it is okay to make somebody serve another under the threat of force?
How about explaining why you on one hand correctly abhor slavery, but on the other hand you endorse using force to make some people serve others....against their will.



Wouldn't it be better if people that want to be left alone are left alone, as long as they leave others alone too?

You seem to run from my questions and I believe I answer yours.....warmup for your coffee sir?

Rob Roy said:

Obviously pissing in somebodies coffee is not acceptable and would be fraud if it were done in a secretive way.



So, you never answer why you think it is okay to make somebody serve another under the threat of force?
How about explaining why you on one hand correctly abhor slavery, but on the other hand you endorse using force to make some people serve others....against their will.



Wouldn't it be better if people that want to be left alone are left alone, as long as they leave others alone too?

You seem to run from my questions and I believe I answer yours.....warmup for your coffee sir?

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If you don't want to serve EVERYONE in a business open to the public you should not have a business open to the public. That is my answer.

londonfog said:

GTFO...His views represents discrimination
ask him if he feel that a man has the right to not serve blacks in a restaurant

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Ask yourself if a man has a right to go to somebody else property and threaten force to make the property owner serve him.

My views represent that everybody has the right to chose how they will use their own body, but not the body of others. Your view is that forcing others to serve another is acceptable. You can't deny that.

Your cognitive dissonance is terminal.

Rob Roy said:

Ask yourself if a man has a right to go to somebody else property and threaten force to make the property owner serve him.

My views represent that everybody has the right to chose how they will use their own body, but not the body of others. Your view is that forcing others to serve another is acceptable. You can't deny that.

Your cognitive dissonance is terminal.

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I know Ginwilly is not man enough to ask ...so I will
Do you think a man should have the right to deny service at his place of business base on color of skin.

londonfog said:

If you don't want to serve EVERYONE in a business open to the public you should not have a business open to the public. That is my answer.

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So your answer is that the owner of a persons body is not that same person? Somebody else can make their decisions for them about how they will use their body, even if they have to use force against them? Why do you like to make people do things with their body and their property that haven't done anything to you?

Rob Roy said:

So your answer is that the owner of a persons body is not that same person? Somebody else can make their decisions for them about how they will use their body, even if they have to use force against them? Why do you like to make people do things with their body and their property that haven't done anything to you?

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I'm not making them ...They made that choice when the decided to open a business that is open to the public..now if it was a PRIVATE CLUB..then they can deny me. What part of that you don't understand.

londonfog said:

I know Ginwilly is not man enough to ask ...so I will
Do you think a man should have the right to deny service at his place of business base on color of skin.

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You just don't get it....

Remove skin color from the equation.

What reasons other than skin color are you cool with re: discrimination? There are millions of reasons people discriminate re: services, which ones other than those already in protected status would you add to the unlawful list?

londonfog said:

I know Ginwilly is not man enough to ask ...so I will
Do you think a man should have the right to deny service at his place of business base on color of skin.

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I think all people should be able to define the use of their body and their justly acquired property by their own terms as long as it does not lessen the ability of another to do the same with their body or does not infringe on anothers justly acquired property.

How people exercise their peaceful freedom may differ from how I would behave in a similar circumstance.

So, for the hundredth time, I personally think racial discrimination is silly and don't practice it. I also think if you don't want to do something and are on your own property, you should be left alone rather than be forced to serve me.

Forced associations are a component of slavery and rape are they not?

ginwilly said:

You just don't get it....

Remove skin color from the equation.

What reasons other than skin color are you cool with re: discrimination? There are millions of reasons people discriminate re: services, which ones other than those already in protected status would you add to the unlawful list?

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If you can't ask Rob Roy that one question...you and I have no conversation

londonfog said:

I'm not making them ...They made that choice when the decided to open a business that is open to the public..now if it was a PRIVATE CLUB..then they can deny me. What part of that you don't understand.

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The underlying incorrect assumption you have made is that government is an exception and can make people do things using initiated force and is immune from the morality of it.

Declaring a persons justly acquired property subject to control beyond the owner is what happened when coercive government started playing fuck fuck with redefining what property is and isn't.

Rob Roy said:

I think all people should be able to define the use of their body and their justly acquired property by their own terms as long as it does not lessen the ability of another to do the same with their body or does not infringe on anothers justly acquired property.

How people exercise their peaceful freedom may differ from how I would behave in a similar circumstance.

So, for the hundredth time, I personally think racial discrimination is silly and don't practice it. I also think if you don't want to do something and are on your own property, you should be left alone rather than be forced to serve me.

Forced associations are a component of slavery and rape are they not?

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that was a yes or no question. Lets try it once more
Do you feel a man has the right to deny service to another based on the color of skin.

Rob Roy said:

The underlying incorrect assumption you have made is that government is an exception and can make people do things using initiated force and is immune from the morality of it.

Declaring a persons justly acquired property subject to control beyond the owner is what happened when coercive government started playing fuck fuck with redefining what property is and isn't.

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The government makes sure markets don't knowing sell spoiled food. Are you against that

londonfog said:

If you don't want to serve EVERYONE in a business open to the public you should not have a business open to the public. That is my answer.

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Yet you continue to avoid my direct questions. So I'll ask again. Simpler this time.

Who owns you? Who owns your property?