If "Organic" Includes Bottled Ferts, What Is Plain 'Ol Soil Called?

LNT, Living Nutrient technique. Seriously, I'm all for your guys style of growing, But some of you need to get down off your high horse.

ROLS is likely the best name. This was more of a conversation generator than anything. I think it's good to bring this up. There's a lotta folks that have made the move and are happy campers so it's worth talking about.

But I agree, we can't be slamming other people's grow styles. That's not the point. For me, at least, I just want to keep reminding folks that this is a great option to consider, and there are folks like me who want to help make the move.

Rrog said:

ROLS is likely the best name. This was more of a conversation generator than anything. I think it's good to bring this up. There's a lotta folks that have made the move and are happy campers so it's worth talking about.

But I agree, we can't be slamming other people's grow styles. That's not the point. For me, at least, I just want to keep reminding folks that this is a great option to consider, and there are folks like me who want to help make the move.

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If I had the room to do a rols, I would. I had a kid the other day show me his bud and he kept on about how it was all organic. I'm laughing inside Because I know he used all bottled stuff with the word "organic" on it and he had no idea what a living soil was. Most indoor growers just don't understand the difference, so Getting the word out is a great idea. I just wanted you guys to understand that Not everyone has the room or time to do it. That doesn't make them lazy.

Rrog said:

^^^easy.....lol.....

Seriously, just mix the shit up.

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dude its not ............. i would have to spend every free minute mixing soil doing science experiments drilling holes in coconuts cutting the grass around my plants ........ searching for missing lizards...........piss on that ..........you got great info on a lot of stuff but that shit aint easy.......

Chuck- agreed. I think the recycled aspect makes this lower maintenance.

Woody- a guy has to mix a soil, but if the soil was built with an eye toward recycling, and you never dumped the pots again, that becomes a time and money saver long term. If the number of ingredients makes this a challenge, then for sure the bagged soil grows great weed. I've used many bags of Roots in my time.

The organic benefit and the cost/time savings are two separate and distinct plusses to ROLS.

Rrog, can you please explain your watering method and frequncey thoughout the grow using coconut water, aloe vera, teas, etc. and how the plants respond compared to plain water? Watering daily?

woody333333 said:

dude its not ............. i would have to spend every free minute mixing soil doing science experiments drilling holes in coconuts cutting the grass around my plants ........ searching for missing lizards...........piss on that ..........you got great info on a lot of stuff but that shit aint easy.......

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Woody, I was in the same boat as you about 8 months ago. I liked the concept, but it looked like an overwhelming task to source all of the ingredients, mix the soil, allow it to inoculate, and piss around with coconut juice, aloe juice, fulvic acid, etc etc.

I decided to take the plunge, in large part due to me being a caregiver for two very sick patients. I felt compelled to offer them the best meds that I could. I had done the hydro thing, and the chemical bottles/soil routine as well .... both with good results, but I wanted to see if I could step things up even further.

I would be lying if I said it was easier than buying a bag of soil, sticking a clone in there, and measuring out a few teaspoons of bloom juice. It's not. But most things that are worthwhile are not easy, imo. The most difficult aspect of this was sourcing all of the organic ingredients. I visited dozens of feed stores and garden centers in my area. Often leaving disappointed and empty handed. I eventually found everything I was looking for, and now I have a nice collection of relatively inexpensive organic goodies, and I now know where to go if I need more. The soil has all been made, and I am able to reuse that soil which makes life a little easier, and the process less expensive. But, most importantly I have been able to smoke the end result, and imo it is a superior product. Worth all of the time and effort for sure.

I think if you take the plunge, you will find yourself really rolling your sleeves up and digging in to this. I was obsessed with learning as much as I could. It really lit a flame under my ass!

One thing to point out that could make things exponentially easier for you and others is that there are some really good "all-in-one" products out there that you can use instead of trying to track down 20 different items to add to your soil. Espoma makes some good "tone" products, and Down to Earth has a nice product called "Vegan Mix" which is very good as well. You could get away with using just one of those if you have a good source of compost/vermicompost, and then just add stuff like neem seed meal in to the mix as you come across it.


http://www.groworganic.com/vegan-mix-3-2-2-6-lb-box.html

Crab Pot said:

Rrog, can you please explain your watering method and frequncey thoughout the grow using coconut water, aloe vera, teas, etc. and how the plants respond compared to plain water? Watering daily?

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Crab Pot: I've been conducting a bit of an experiment on exactly this. I ran one batch of plants through using only RO water, and my other batches (of the same strain) I have been feeding them the following each 1x per week, 3 feedings per week total.

Sunday am= aloe juice/coconut water
Tuesday afternoon= Pro=tekt/Ful Power (fulvic acid)
Thursday evening= ACT (in veg and early flower) or malted barley flour from the third week of flower to harvest

I honestly can't tell the difference between the "just add water" plants and the others that have been getting all of the goodies. I'd say I'm a little skeptical at this point. I will reserve final judgement on this until I have been able to do this again with some soil that has been through one cycle, and is being reused. I know that some of the initial inputs used in my soil take much longer to become bio available and may interact differently with some of this stuff being watered in.

Rrog said:

That's mighty funny Dgringo!

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I'm a recovering "bottle head". I honestly thought three years ago, when I was growing Botanicare Pro line in soil, that i was organic. Been doing my research since then and this year I am proud to say I am 100% bottle free with 100% happy plants and an even happier wallet. Now I spend my free time on here trying to convert the lost souls. I have really pulled some gems from the ROLS thread that Cann and yourself are a large part of so.. Thanks! I must admit that I am thinking about grabbing up a bottle of Protekt. It is so tempting! Are there support groups for recovering bottle heads?

I would like to take this opportunity to ask a question that has been on my mind for weeks.. I am on my first of grows intended to be a ROLS grow. Since it is the first generation I suppose it is considered a "pre ROLS" grow. Either way ROLS is the path that I am on. I also intend on being "no dump" or "no till". My question is this- When it comes time to amend between grows, how are the amendments worked into the soil? I have been busting my ass trying to find the answer to this question without having to ask but I have failed. I'm sure it is super simple but I don't get it. If you aren't supposed to disturb the soil structure in the pot then how do you amend aside from top dressing?

when i kept seeing "no till" i wondered the same.......After i chopped my girl down i let the pot sit and the roots actually broke down into the soil....it was pretty cool lol. then i broke it up and mixed in some more castings and stuff. I figured it would be good for aeration too since it had become more compact

What I do, as a result of talking with others, is to leave several inches of space in your pot for future amendments. You can add an amendment and lightly mix into the top of the existing soil. It's cool. Water it in.

Dgringo- What I do, as a result of talking with others, is to leave several inches of space in your pot for future amendments. You can add an amendment and lightly mix into the top of the existing soil. It's cool. Water it in.

Stowe- That's a great comparison RO vs no. Some of the items you have there I think can cover deficits, but a truly loaded soil, especially with vermicompost, doesn't leave much room for improvement. The aloe is great for new plants and transplants, clones. Fulvic Acids, like Humic Acids, are part of the humus already. With regular applications of vermicompost, you will reach a max CEC point. So I don't supplement these acids. Similarly, the CEC system will hold and re-use plant enzymes, so continually adding them will get you to another saturation point quickly. ACT I'm not a fan of, again because my soil is already bursting at the seams and I don't need the speed of ACT.

I'm very much in the camp of focusing the amendment attention to the worm bin. Add these products and they'll be incorporated and balanced. Then apply to the plant.

I also agree that there is not doubt a pile of stuff to buy and mix. It would be cool to buy some of these components in a simple mix that you would add to your locally acquired peat, pumice and vermicompost.

Thanks guys. I will be leaving the roots in for sure and essentially amending with what could be considered a "deep top dressing". Man it feels good to have that cleared up. Moving forward..

Rrog said:

Dgringo- What I do, as a result of talking with others, is to leave several inches of space in your pot for future amendments. You can add an amendment and lightly mix into the top of the existing soil. It's cool. Water it in.

Stowe- That's a great comparison RO vs no. Some of the items you have there I think can cover deficits, but a truly loaded soil, especially with vermicompost, doesn't leave much room for improvement. The aloe is great for new plants and transplants, clones. Fulvic Acids, like Humic Acids, are part of the humus already. With regular applications of vermicompost, you will reach a max CEC point. So I don't supplement these acids. Similarly, the CEC system will hold and re-use plant enzymes, so continually adding them will get you to another saturation point quickly. ACT I'm not a fan of, again because my soil is already bursting at the seams and I don't need the speed of ACT.

I'm very much in the camp of focusing the amendment attention to the worm bin. Add these products and they'll be incorporated and balanced. Then apply to the plant.

I also agree that there is not doubt a pile of stuff to buy and mix. It would be cool to buy some of these components in a simple mix that you would add to your locally acquired peat, pumice and vermicompost.

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Great info Rrog! I'm really trying to focus on my compost bin and worm bin. It makes complete sense to add beneficial ingredients and allow the worms to break it down for you.

Relating to the "re-amending" ..... I was reading a thread on IC touching on this. The consensus seemed to be that liming agents should not be added after the initial soil has been put together, due to how slowly it breaks down. Dolomite lime, oyster shell powder, etc.

They also felt that adding in stuff like kelp meal, alfalfa meal, etc should be done at a 50% rate of what you originally used.

Agree? Disagree?

I would completely agree and thanks for saying this. The minerals also are in there for a long time. I think Gas adds rock powders after the sixth cycle or so as a top dressing. I may not be recalling that right.

The 50% rate, I guess. I dunno. I'd be adding them to the worm bin now and again. But not a lot is needed, as you're breaking down all that vegetation already which contains a lot. So not sure how to correlate to 50%.

A worm bin with a well balanced food supply is one of the greatest adjustments I made in my garden. Don't get me wrong I feed them all the veggy srcaps we have, but when I think of it they get things like alfalfa meal ( in small amounts) Kelp meal, rock dusts..etc. They eat so fast its crazy. I also have worms living in each of my pots, and they seem to be thriving. A well balanced soil food web is in my opinion the most import aspect of "organics".. Gardening with nature is my definition of organics.

Nice! Thanks for that. Your own vermicompost is really the single best thing you can do IMHO.

The cultivation editor for Skunk mag created a term for the super soil method (which is another name for it) but he calls it TLO (True Living Organics)

Would there be any benefit to adding humics/fulvics to the worm bin?