I have defoliated my plants in the hope to increase my yeild :)

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tip top toker

tip top toker

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joe macclennan said:
if you really have a degree in botany then you should understand how defoliation would bring the process of translocation to a halt.

or how being an inefficient grower is in no way good.


anyone can get a degree anymore.

hmmm, I wonder why we don't defoliate apple trees during the summer? Or pick all the leaves off a grape vine?


why have plants with leaves at all? It seems like they would grow naturally with just stalks and fruit if this would produce more?

why the fuck do trees have leaves?
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Hit a nail on the head with that one. every other plant and fruit we have, we just let it do it's thing, we use water straight from the hose, use any plant food on offer at the garden center, but the moment it get's to cannabis, oh no, we have to do 101 things under the guise of it being right, or better. But that seems to run with the pre-conception of growing things. You grow 10 different fruits in your garden, whoo-fucking-hoo, you grow one cannabis plant and you're suddenly seen as some horticultural god :D I'm sure when ABC was first grown, people thought hey, let's do this, let's do that, then the reality became apparent and people suddenly realised why the fuck are we wasting our time trying this when it already knows what it wants.

This thread is very simple really. The grower grew a plant, and then chopped it to shit so that he could start from scratch and scrog it, it has nothing to do with defoliation, or increasing yields, or any such bullshit. He cocked up and essentially started from scratch and got the same yield he would have gotten had he just grown it properly in the first place. But instead of just accepting he cocked up, tries to turn it around as "this new amazing way of growing"

Next time you try and argue the case of defoliation, at least do a side by side, and at least end up with something a little less embarassing than 5 ounces. Fuck, i've grown plants with 2 weeks of veg without any training that got that yield.
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
Hit a nail on the head with that one. every other plant and fruit we have, we just let it do it's thing, we use water straight from the hose, use any plant food on offer at the garden center, but the moment it get's to cannabis, oh no, we have to do 101 things under the guise of it being right, or better. But that seems to run with the pre-conception of growing things. You grow 10 different fruits in your garden, whoo-fucking-hoo, you grow one cannabis plant and you're suddenly seen as some horticultural god :D I'm sure when ABC was first grown, people thought hey, let's do this, let's do that, then the reality became apparent and people suddenly realised why the fuck are we wasting our time trying this when it already knows what it wants.

This thread is very simple really. The grower grew a plant, and then chopped it to shit so that he could start from scratch and scrog it, it has nothing to do with defoliation, or increasing yields, or any such bullshit. He cocked up and essentially started from scratch and got the same yield he would have gotten had he just grown it properly in the first place. But instead of just accepting he cocked up, tries to turn it around as "this new amazing way of growing"

Next time you try and argue the case of defoliation, at least do a side by side, and at least end up with something a little less embarassing than 5 ounces. Fuck, i've grown plants with 2 weeks of veg without any training that got that yield.
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thank you :)
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
joe macclennan said:
if you really have a degree in botany then you should understand how defoliation would bring the process of translocation to a halt.

or how being an inefficient grower is in no way good.


anyone can get a degree anymore.

hmmm, I wonder why we don't defoliate apple trees during the summer? Or pick all the leaves off a grape vine?


why have plants with leaves at all? It seems like they would grow naturally with just stalks and fruit if this would produce more?

why the fuck do trees have leaves?
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruning#Types_of_pruning

  • Thinning: A more drastic form of pruning, a thinning out cut is the removal of an entire shoot, limb, or branch at its point of origin.[SUP][1][/SUP] This is usually employed to revitalize a plant by removing over-mature, weak, problematic, and excessive growths. When performed correctly, thinning encourages the formation of new growth that will more readily bear fruit and flowers. This is a common technique in pruning roses and for implifying and "opening-up" the branching of neglected trees, or for renewing shrubs with multiple branches.
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[video=youtube;fI7d7kE4hng]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI7d7kE4hng[/video]

Just so you understand, I don't condone completely cutting every leaf off the plant, I haven't said once that that is a good idea. The information above is why I do what I do..

Get it?

Training techniques date further back than dumbasses growing in their moms house.
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
joe macclennan said:
apples and oranges there man.

this isn't about thinning or training

those are two totally different subjects entirely

nice try tho
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You really should re-read my posts. Maybe I didn't explain it simple enough because you seem to be under the assumption that I agree with stickybuds borderline killing his plant.

Also, I lol'd that you said "apples and oranges" when you're the one bringing up trees and grape vines like people grow that shit indoors.
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
so here is the link you posted in case anyone cares [h=1]Pruning[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This article is about the pruning of plants in general. For the pruning of fruit bearing trees, see Fruit tree pruning. For other uses, seePruning (disambiguation).

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Pruning: dense growth after shearing​

Pruning is a horticultural and silvicultural practice involving the selective removal of parts of a plant, such as branches, buds, or roots. Reasons to prune plants include deadwood removal, shaping (by controlling or directing growth), improving or maintaining health, reducing risk from falling branches, preparing nursery specimens for transplanting, and both harvesting and increasing the yield or quality of flowers and fruits. The practice entails targeted removal of diseased, damaged, dead, non-productive, structurally unsound, or otherwise unwanted tissue from crop and landscape plants. Specialized pruning practices may be applied to certain plants, such as roses, fruit trees, andgrapevines. Different pruning techniques may be deployed on herbaceous plants than those used on perennial woody plants. Hedges, by design, are usually (but not exclusively) maintained by hedge trimming, rather than by pruning.
Arborists, orchardists, and gardeners use various garden tools and tree cutting tools designed for the purpose, such as hand pruners, loppers, or chainsaws. In nature, meteorological conditions such as wind, ice and snow, and salinity can cause plants to self-prune. This natural shedding is called abscission.
In general, the smaller the branch that is cut, the easier it is for a woody plant to compartmentalize the wound and thus limit the potential forpathogen intrusion and decay. It is therefore preferable to make any necessary formative structural pruning cuts to young plants, when possible, rather than removing large, poorly placed branches from mature plants.
[h=2]Contents[/h] [hide]​


[h=2]Pruning landscape and amenity trees[edit][/h][h=3]Types of branch union[edit][/h]

Pruning when there's a branch collar: Note the swollen area where the branch joins the trunk, this is known as the collar, do not cut off the collar​



Pruning when there's a collarless union: Note there's no swollen area where the branch joins the trunk, this is known as a collarless union, cut at a mirror angle to the BBR (branch bark ridge)​



Pruning when it's a codominant stem: Note the bottom of the BBR and where it meets the outside of the stem, cut where the red line is.​

For arboricultural purposes the unions of tree branches (i.e. where they join together) are placed in one of three types: collared, collarless or codominant. Regardless of the overall type of pruning being carried out, each type of union is cut in a particular way so that the branch has less chance of regrowth from the cut area and best chance of sealing over and compartmentalising decay. This is often referred to by arborists as "target cutting".[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
[h=3]Dead-wooding[edit][/h]Branches die off for a number of reasons ranging from light deficiency, pests and disease damage to root damage. A dead branch will at some point decay back to the parent stem causing abscission and fall off. This is normally a slow process but can be shortened by high winds and extremities of temperature. Therefore the main reason deadwooding is carried out is safety. The situations that usually demand such removal would normally be trees that overhang public roads, houses, public areas and gardens. Trees that are located in wooded areas are usually considered and assessed as lower risk but such assessments would need to consider the amount of visitors. Usually, trees adjacent to the footpaths and access roads are considered for deadwood removal. Another reason for deadwooding is amenity value, i.e. a tree with a large amount of dead throughout the crown looks more aesthetically pleasing with the deadwood removed. The physical practice of deadwooding can be carried out most of the year although preferably not when the tree is coming into leaf. The deadwooding process will speed up the natural abscission process the tree follows. It will help remove unwanted weight; wind resistance the tree carries and can help the overall balance.
[h=3]Crown and canopy thinning[edit][/h]Increase light and reduce wind resistance by selective removal of branches throughout the canopy of the tree. This is a common practice which improves the tree's strength against adverse weather conditions as the wind can pass through the tree resulting in less "load" being placed on the tree.
[h=3]Crown canopy lifting[edit][/h]Crown lifting involves the removal of the lower branches to a given height. The height is achieved by the removal of whole branches or removing the parts of branches which extend below the desired height. The branches are normally not lifted to more than one third of the tree's total height.
Crown lifting is done for access; these being pedestrian, vehicle or space for buildings and street furniture. Lifting the crown will allow traffic and pedestrians to pass underneath safely. This pruning technique is usually used in the urban environment as it is for public safety and aesthetics rather than tree form and timber value.
Crown lifting introduces light to the lower part of the trunk; this, in some species can encourage epicormic growth from dormant buds. To reduce this sometimes smaller branches are left on the lower part of the trunk. Excessive removal of the lower branches can displace the canopy weight, this will make the tree top heavy, therefore adding stress to the tree. When a branch is removed from the trunk, it creates a large wound. This wound is susceptible to disease and decay, and could lead to reduced trunk stability. Therefore much time and consideration must be taken when choosing the height the crown is to be lifted to.
This would be an inappropriate operation if the tree species’ form was of a shrubby nature. This would therefore remove most of the foliage and would also largely unbalance the tree. This procedure should not be carried out if the tree is in decline, poor health or dead, dying or dangerous (DDD) as the operation will remove some of the photosynthetic area the tree uses. This will increase the decline rate of the tree and could lead to death.
If the tree is of great importance to an area or town, (i.e. veteran or ancient) then an alternative solution to crown lifting would be to move the target or object so it is not in range. For example, diverting a footpath around a tree’s drip line so the crown lift is not needed. Another solution would be to prop up or cable-brace the low hanging branch. This is a non-invasive solution which in some situations can work out more economically and environmentally friendly.
[h=3]Directional or formative pruning[edit][/h]Removal of appropriate branches to make the tree structurally sound whilst shaping it.
[h=3]Vista pruning[edit][/h]Selectively pruning a window of view in a tree.
[h=3]Crown reduction[edit][/h]Reducing the height and or spread of a tree by selectively cutting back to smaller branches And in fruit trees for increasing of light interception and enhancing fruit quality.
[h=3]Pollarding[edit][/h]Main article: Pollarding
A regular form of pruning where certain deciduous species are pruned back to pollard heads every year in the dormant period. This practice is usually commenced on juvenile trees so they can adapt to the harshness of the practice.
[h=2]Types of pruning[edit][/h]Regardless of the various names used for types of pruning, there are only two basic cuts: One cuts back to an intermediate point, calledheading back cut, and the other cuts back to some point of origin, called thinning out cut.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Removing a portion of a growing stem down to a set of desirable buds or side-branching stems. This is commonly performed in well trained plants for a variety of reasons, for example to stimulate growth of flowers, fruit or branches, as a preventative measure to wind and snow damage on long stems and branches, and finally to encourage growth of the stems in a desirable direction. Also commonly known as heading-back.

  • Thinning: A more drastic form of pruning, a thinning out cut is the removal of an entire shoot, limb, or branch at its point of origin.[SUP][1][/SUP] This is usually employed to revitalize a plant by removing over-mature, weak, problematic, and excessive growths. When performed correctly, thinning encourages the formation of new growth that will more readily bear fruit and flowers. This is a common technique in pruning rosesand for implifying and "opening-up" the branching of neglected trees, or for renewing shrubs with multiple branches.
  • Topping: Topping is a very severe form of pruning which involves removing all branches and growths down to a few large branches or to the trunk of the tree. When performed correctly it is used on very young trees, and can be used to begin training younger trees for pollarding or for trellising to form an espalier.
  • Raising removes the lower branches from a tree in order to provide clearance for buildings, vehicles, pedestrians, and vistas.
  • Reduction reduces the size of a tree, often for clearance for utility lines. Reducing the height or spread of a tree is best accomplished by pruning back the leaders and branch terminals to lateral branches that are large enough to assume the terminal roles (at least one-third the diameter of the cut stem). Compared to topping[disambiguation needed], reduction helps maintain the form and structural integrity of the tree.[SUP][2][/SUP]
In orchards, fruit trees are often lopped to encourage regrowth and to maintain a smaller tree for ease of picking fruit. The pruning regime in orchards is more planned and the productivity of each tree is an important factor.
Deadheading is the act of removing spent flowers or flowerheads for aesthetics, to prolong bloom for up to several weeks or promote rebloom, or to prevent seeding.
[h=2]Technique[edit][/h]

Some tools utilized for pruning.​

The general rule of pruning is to always cut in a location where growth will occur, whether the cut is next to a bud or another branch. Cutting a branch beyond where growth will occur will prevent the plant from forming a callus over the cut surface, which in turn will invite insects and infection. It effectively kills all portions of that branch back to the closest branch, bud, or dormant bud clusters, leaving a stub of dead wood. The withered stub will eventually rot away and fall off. All cuts should be relatively smooth since this will aid in healing.
Also, the pruning cut should not be too large when compared to the growing point. For instance, a large cut on a 20 cm trunk down to a 15 cm branch should be fine, but the same cut to the trunk down to a 1 cm twig or bud is considerably less ideal and should be avoided if possible.
[h=3]Pruning to a bud[edit][/h]A correct pruning cut will allow for quick healing and promote vigorous growth from the closest bud to the cut. The cut should be close enough to the bud to reduce the size of the stub of dead wood that will form from the cut, but far enough away to prevent the bud from being adversely affected by the cut through desiccation. Cutting too close to the bud (under-cutting) sometimes results in the death of the bud, which results in a scenario similar to cutting too far away from the bud (over-cutting). In general, a correct cut should be angled at a moderate 35-45 degree slant such that its lowest point is situated on the same level as the tip of the growth bud. This technique is usually applied when pinching or when cutting-back.[SUP][3][/SUP]
[h=3]Pruning to a main branch[edit][/h]The pruning cut should occur slightly away from and follow the branch collar. When cutting away branches growing directly from the roots, the cut should be flush and level to the ground. This technique is usually applied when thinning or to remove larger dead or damaged branches.
When using pruning shears or loppers to remove a branch back to a main branch, the "hook" portion of the shears should always face away from the main branch. This ensures that the blade will not leave a protruding stub and the hook will not damage the branch collar or parts of the main branch.[SUP][4][/SUP]
[h=3]Large heavy branches[edit][/h]Depending on the weight of the branch, the first cut should be a notch on the underside of the branch about a third to half of the way through. The bulk of the branch should then be removed with a follow-through cut slightly above the first cut, thus leaving a limb stub. The purpose of this is to stop the weight of the branch from tearing the bark of the tree from the underside, which would normally occur if the removal was done with one cut. The limb stub ensures that any cracking of the wood resulting from the branch separation is limited to the portion of the wood to be removed. The branch collar should then be located, and can be identified by the strip of rough bark running down from the topside of the branch at its junction with the stem. The cut for removing the limb stub should be just outside the branch collar, leaving a small bump. The bump and the branch collar should not be removed since this action can increase healing time, which could result in a major infection.
[h=2]Time period[edit][/h]Pruning small branches can be done at any time of year. Large branches, with more than 5-10% of the plant's crown, can be pruned either during dormancy in winter, or, for species where winter frost can harm a recently pruned plant, in mid summer just after flowering. Autumn should be avoided, as the spores of disease and decay fungi are abundant at this time of year.
Some woody plants that tend to bleed profusely from cuts, such as maples, or which callous over slowly, such as magnolias, are better pruned in summer or at the onset of dormancy instead. Woody plants that flower early in the season, on spurs that form on wood that has matured the year before, such as apples, should be pruned right after flowering, as later pruning will sacrifice flowers the following season. Forsythia,azaleas and lilacs all fall into this category.






nothing in there about defoliation being beneficial....at all
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
mr2shim said:
You really should re-read my posts. Maybe I didn't explain it simple enough because you seem to be under the assumption that I agree with stickybuds borderline killing his plant.

Also, I lol'd that you said "apples and oranges" when you're the one bringing up trees and grape vines like people grow that shit indoors.
Click to expand...

you liked my pun eh?

why does being indoors change what a plant wants or needs?
 
SunJ

SunJ

Member
Would this be a good time to mention I did some light defoliating or, uh, canopy management?

Here's what it looked like when I was done.

Peace.jpg

We're all growing ganja and we're all loving what we do! We all just do it a little differently!
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
SunJ said:
Would this be a good time to mention I did some light defoliating or, uh, canopy management?

Here's what it looked like when I was done.

View attachment 3005340

We're all growing ganja and we're all loving what we do! We all just do it a little differently!
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Because people like joe macclennan can't get off their high horse of arrogance long enough to realize he isn't the almighty and people can at the end of the day do what the fuck they want. This is a place to advise and help, not to be a complete dickbag when someone does something different. People like that are the reason why I don't frequent RIU as much anymore. Used to be a chill place, now it's littered with self-entitled douchebags that know everything about everything(i.e. twenty-somethings)
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
mr2shim said:
Because people like joe macclennan can't get off their high horse of arrogance long enough to realize he isn't the almighty and people can at the end of the day do what the fuck they want. This is a place to advise and help, not to be a complete dickbag when someone does something different. People like that are the reason why I don't frequent RIU as much anymore. Used to be a chill place, now it's littered with self-entitled douchebags that know everything about everything(i.e. twenty-somethings)
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oh he mad^^

probably been growing longer than you've been out of your mothers basement mrshim...but whatever.

and no i'm certainly not always right.

and you confuse arrogance with confidence.

you want to advise and help? then do so. show us something that proves defoliation is good.

and i'm not talking about pruning, or thinning as you tried to change the subject too a minute ago.

but no, get mad call names, and show what kind of an immature child you are.

edit: "ima do what the fuck I want"

sounds like my teenage daughter right there
 
SunJ

SunJ

Member
joe macclennan said:
not gonna read the whole thread. BUt the plants on the first page are not defoliated. heres a pic
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Perhaps that is where your problem lies. You are to far stuck up your own arse to look into what other people are doing and have done. It's that muddy vision that leads your confidence to become arrogance. I mention that I don't recall exactly where he starts his defoliation experiment to encourage you to discover it for your self. Based on your post totals and the sheer volume of negativity you like to spew, it does not surprise me that you would only skim the surface and never find the hidden gems. It is much, much later in the reading where he does the defoliation experiment and goes from a non-believer, such as yourself, into a believer of a balanced approach to gradual leaf removal. You posed a question. I answered it. Sorry if that upset you. :)
 
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

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stickybuds* said:
thanks mr2shim, yeh there a lot of growers on here that saydefoliating plants is wrong and I have a degree in botany lol
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So if you have a degree in botany, why would you post such a sophisticated growing technique in the "newbie" section?
Perhaps this thread would have been more appropriate and accepted in the “Advance Marijuana Cultivation” section, where the highly skilled members reside.
Dr. Jekyll


To post your controversial technique in the “newbie” section as opposed to the “Advance Marijuana Cultivation” demonstrates you are either a coward or lack the skills required to debate with experienced growers
Mr. Hyde
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
no need to apologize. I've done the defol thing myself before....as i posted several times in this thread alone. (3x now I think)

and I'm a non believer only because I believe in translocation and photosynthesis. You know the basic processes by which all plants live and grow?

If you do not believe in this then you need to do some research and experimentation of your own.

perhaps somewhere more credible than a marijuana forum



just a thought
 
J

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde said:
So if you have a degree in botany, why would you post such a sophisticated growing technique in the "newbie" section?
Perhaps this thread would have been more appropriate and accepted in the “Advance Marijuana Cultivation” section, where the highly skilled members reside.
Dr. Jekyll


To post your controversial technique in the “newbie” section as opposed to the “Advance Marijuana Cultivation” demonstrates you are either a coward or lack the skills required to debate with experienced growers
Mr. Hyde
Click to expand...

lol, didn't even think of that one.

~off to the advanced section to look for defol threads~
 
SunJ

SunJ

Member
You can't even acknowledge the fact that you posed this question and I answered it. Contrary to what you were trying to achieve with your question, you continue to ignore something that resides right here on this very site that could be very insightful for you.

Thank you for recommending that I do some research. I happen to be very familiar with this concept, in case you were unaware. And I have been conducting my own experiments. Isn't that what this is all about? Next one I'm considering is one that will involve clones that will be in 3 groups. Natural (No leaf removal until it's fallen off itself) and my own group that I will defoliate as I see fit. Same lights. Same soil. Same nutes. Same temps. Same everything else. I'll send you a personal invitation when I get it going. Perhaps you can observe and let me know what I'm doing wrong along the way?

:joint:
 
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