HpLVd, information, Vendors, Testing and Reviews

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
The virus isn't an enigma. Great cuts are called as such because they have typically been vetted for many years by respected people and found to have archival qualities. Sourcing a vetted cut and spending $50 for labwork is more efficient than popping hundreds or thousands of seeds to find a plant that might possess half the desirable traits. It isn't logical to disregard cuts that displayed elite traits, which were potentially maintained for decades because poor grower practices lead to pathogen contamination. If you can't take basic precautions when acquiring outside genetics, searching for a win over a lifetime of seed popping is the way to go.
I've done plenty of pheno hunts from multiple breeders across the board. I have grow reviews going back serveral years and I can honestly say I've found very few keepers that could stand up to the quality of some of these cuts and thats the truth! Its what led me on the path to acquire the original breeder cuts.
I'd rather buy the vetted cuts and chuck my own seeds rather than pay 2-300 bucks for a single pack...or worse, be stuck growing a bunch shwaggy bag seeds that produce nothing but mids. Eff that.
Its like anything else in life, over time, our standards change.
 
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sunsetdaydreamer

Well-Known Member
I've done plenty of pheno hunts from multiple breeders across the board. I have grow reviews going back serveral years and I can honestly say I've found very few keepers that could stand up to the quality of some of these cuts and that the truth! Its what led me on the path to acquire the original breeder cuts.
I'd rather buy the vetted cuts and chuck my own seeds rather than pay 2-300 bucks for a single pack...or worse, be stuck growing a bunch shwaggy bag seeds that produce nothing but mids. Eff that.
Its like anything else in life, over time, our standards change.
I agree with that. I've done lots of pheno hunting. And generally end up with mids. a lot of people who say seeds are better often forget that the breeders who make those seeds are using clone onlys some old or new hype cuts.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Copy and paste from dark heart, I thought this would be a good intro..

Hop latent viroid (HpLVd), the causal agent of dudding, is a current and important topic in the cannabis industry. Given the negative impacts to quality and yield, the ease of transmission, and the difficulty in identifying early infections, the disease will likely be an industry-wide problem for years to come. From a scientific perspective it is a very interesting pathogen, with characteristics that make it very well suited to take advantage of the standard practices in this industry.
.

Part I: the Pathogen
Your plants are under vegetative lights and look good. Mostly. Well, maybe some have a less dense canopy, leaflets are overlapping, internodes are short, and branching angles are a bit off. It’s really subtle, though, so maybe you are imagining it. The schedule is to flip to flowering lights next week, so you don’t think much of it. A few weeks into flower you notice that a significant number of your plants have small, loose buds developing, or no flowers at all. You look at nutrient levels, light levels, and dial in as many parameters as possible. The worst-off plants have almost no flowers, and the small buds also have fewer trichomes. When harvest occurs the overall yield is way down, and the quality is lacking. This is a common scenario with hop latent viroid (HpLVd) infection, a very small pathogen causing big issues in cultivation.

First, a little introduction to the pathogen. HpLVd is one of a group of pathogens collectively known as viroids, of which there are 27 known species.[1] They infect higher order plants, with 25 that infect dicots and two that infect monocots.[2] They are all circular single-stranded RNA molecules that range in size from about 245 to 465 nucleotides in length.[1] HpLVd is on the smaller side at 256 nucleotides; the full sequence is at the end of this post.[3] To put that in perspective, the genome of SARS-CoV-2 is 29,903 nucleotides and the genome of cannabis is about 818 Megabase pairs.[4,5] Viroids differ from viruses in that they do not code for proteins and do not have a capsid structure. Even the simplest viruses have coding sequences to make proteins of their own for basic functions. They also have coat proteins forming a shell around their genomes to protect their genetic material against degradation when moving between hosts. Viroids rely entirely on the cells they take over for necessary processes: replication and movement. Their RNA genome has a lot of secondary structure, which allows for shapes that interact with the cellular proteins and enzymes. Viroids are also known to cause small RNA production within host cells, further disrupting normal processes.[1,6] By highjacking and disrupting cellular functions, they cause the symptoms we do not want.

If they have no proteins, no capsid structure, and rely on their host to do everything, how do viroids infect new plants? Through us, of course. Okay, we have not been around for the entire history of viroids, but once humans arrived on the scene and started developing agriculture life became easier for them. Viroids spread through seeds, clonal propagation, and sap transmission.[1,7,8] They are generally not transmitted by insects, though one has been shown to be effectively transmitted by aphids. Collectively, this means our actions and sanitation practices in the greenhouse directly impact the spread of HpLVd.

So why do we call it hop latent viroid? In virology, the first researcher who describes the disease and proves the causal organism gets naming rights. Plant virology naming conventions include the plant host it is first described in and symptoms associated with the disease it causes. HpLVd was originally described from symptomatic hop fields in 1988, Germany.[3] In hops, very few cultivars are symptomatic when infected with HpLVd and only show symptoms under certain environmental conditions.[9] This is pathogen latency, so the pathogen description, a viroid that is latent in hops, is shortened to hop latent viroid.
You gave a nod to Dark Heart but not the link;
They deserve the views. Did they give you permission to republish in its' entirety here?
 

sunsetdaydreamer

Well-Known Member
I doubt it. A virus would most likely be present in the phloem and not in xylem sap. Aphid stylets are used to puncture the phloem and it's a way transfer can occur, however, literature I've read indicates aphid transfer is not taking place. I think plant-to-plant transfer would require a cut or puncture of the stem or petiole to then contaminate an open wound of a neighboring plant. Plants are typically able to seal wounds quickly. Plants brushing up against each other repeatedly with a force such as a fan might facilitate the transfer. Transfer of phloem sap via mechanical cutting tools lacking proper disinfection seems to be the main cause for concern. Something I point out is household bleach is typically sub 10% sodium hypochlorite. People need to pay attention to how long tools are dipped and at what solution strength. I suspect people are quickly dipping their pruning tools in 6% bleach and calling it a done deal. This lack of attention to detail is why the virus will continue to spread, even among many vendors claiming to be clean.
The only problem I have with this theory is that obviously a virus or viroid has evolved to infect a host. I'd think that in a wild environment if it only passed through open wounds, it probably wouldn't really get very far in terms of longevity. And what about in winter when plants die back. Then also dark heart or some other lab said that it can be passed from dry flowers so that would mean the viroid can survive being dried out. I don't think it's as simple as just not using the same tools. It must have different means of spreading.
 

sunsetdaydreamer

Well-Known Member

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Well you just posted the link so there you go..
Thanks
You're welcome but it still doesn't answer if Dark Heart allowed you to copy and paste the three articles in their entirety instead of just a fair use snippet which isn't a copyright violation. They worked hard to nail this and spent a lot of money doing it. They should get the views from their work.
 

SilencePlz

Member
Here's a Gorilla Butter from Pink Box Clones that tested positive for HPLVD. My other clone stock all tested negative. I'm taking a tissue culture class to hopefully setup my own lab to refresh all my genetics in the future. From what I've seen the only way to cure HPLVD is to perform a hot treatment on a plant for a month then take a tissue culture via the meristem.




I got 6 clones from pink box, 4 out of 6 definitely had the stunted 'mini' growth, laterals growing wide out, and when you put even the slightlest downward pressure a branch it would tear off the stem.

Probably should stay away from this person.

I've heard that high dosages of Zerotol 2.0 for plant/cutting dunks can help for some genetics you really can't afford to get rid of but also cannot get in TC. Haven't found great information on the rates though. I've been dunking cuttings in 15mL/gal, but now I'm testing clone dunks of 100mL/gal of what I believe to be infected. Will come back with results.
 

sunsetdaydreamer

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in these "Elite" strains. There are plenty of others making and popping great stuff from seed. They're just not these "Known" breeders with connections winning some "Cup". I've grown stuff from seed as good or better than anything I've come across in the 4+ decades I've been smoking weed.

I've never bought in to the hype. Just recently I got a call from a guy I gave some plants to. Some of them came from seeds of my own pollen chucks. The guy was livid. He wanted to know what it was he was growing because it was so great. He didn't seem satisfied when I told him it was just a pollen chuck I made. He wanted to hear that it was some "X" strain from some super "X" breeder. He seemed disappointed that it wasn't.

Who wants a great strain from a nobody like me? It's not pre-1990 super Smash Bling Monkey Skunk from Billy Big Banger Best breeder Ever. You can't brag to your buddies.

The cannabis strain/breeder scene is one big soap opera I don't need and want nothing to do with. I'll still be growing and smoking weed as good or better without worrying about that world. Cartoon and Candy names and packaging is something I have no need for.
Interesting story... I'm sure you grow some nice plants. But there's lots of threads for talking about what you like to grow from seed.. Maybe you will one day breed an amazing plant and decide to keep it as a clone. That will then be known as a rare clone only. No dramas involved.

Back on topic..
 

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
Who wants a great strain from a nobody like me?
How do you think some of these "elites" were found? It was a "nobody" that shared it with a bunch of other "nobodies" until it gained traction and went on to become some of the most highly sought after strains around the world.

Instagram is full of hype and many create these so-called soap operas as a marketing technique because at the end of the day, conflict sells. And it goes without saying that not all available clones meet "elite" status but its really shortsighted to say that some of them dont deserve recognition or that its all hype considering some of these "elites" are literally the backbone of 80% of todays genetics. Every person on this forum has likely shown off at least one plant made with some of these "elite'. Some have entire rooms full of them. Some use the breeder cuts to chuck their own to further hunt or work the line for its healing properties.

Either way its moot point here because this thread was intended to gather and share info about pathogens effecting cannabis. If it helps just one person spot it before it spread through their grow, I consider that a win.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
They also fucked up a lot of peoples grows when they sent duds around the community. It's good they are giving something back.
I'm not making money from this so I'll post anything I like. They don't have a monopoly on hplvd. Or making money from it.
So let me get this straight you believe copyright infringement on your part is justified because DH owes people. Oh gawd I love delusional children. Please carry on.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
It wasn't theirs to copy right or steal since they used other references

References
  1. Hammond RW, Owens RA. Viroids: New and Continuing Risks for Horticultural and Agricultural Crops. APSnet Featur Artic. 2006. doi:10.1094/apsnetfeature-2006-1106
  2. Viroids – an overview | ScienceDirect Topics. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/viroids. Accessed January 13, 2021.
  3. Puchta H, Ramm K, Sänger HL. The molecular structure of hop latent viroid (HLV), a new viroid occurring worldwide in hops. Nucleic Acids Res. 1988;16(10):4197-4216. doi:10.1093/nar/16.10.4197
  4. Chang T-J, Yang D-M, Wang M-L, et al. Genomic analysis and comparative multiple sequences of SARS-CoV2. J Chinese Med Assoc. 2020;83(6):537-543. doi:10.1097/JCMA.0000000000000335
  5. van Bakel H, Stout JM, Cote AG, et al. The draft genome and transcriptome of Cannabis sativa. Genome Biol. 2011;12(10):R102. doi:10.1186/gb-2011-12-10-r102
  6. Owens RA, Hammond RW. Viroid pathogenicity: One process, many faces. Viruses. 2009;1(2):298-316. doi:10.3390/v1020298
  7. Mink GI. POLLEN-AND SEED-TRANSMITTED VIRUSES AND VIROIDS. Vol 31.; 1993. www.annualreviews.org. Accessed October 23, 2018.
  8. Adkar-Purushothama CR, Perreault JP. Current overview on viroid–host interactions. Wiley Interdiscip Rev RNA. 2020;11(2). doi:10.1002/wrna.1570
  9. Pethybridge SJ, Hay FS, Barbara DJ, Eastwell KC, Wilson CR. Viruses and Viroids Infecting Hop: Significance, Epidemiology, and Management. 2008. doi:10.1094/PDIS-92-3-0324
  10. Paduch-Cichal E, Kryczyński S. A Low Temperature Therapy and Meristem-Tip Culture for Eliminating four Viroids from Infected Plants. J Phytopathol. 1987;118(4):341-346. doi:10.1111/j.1439-0434.1987.tb00465.x
The way research works is you build on the research of others, or you are replicating the research of others or you're doing a meta-analysis or a survey of other research which isn't primary research et al.

You aren't quoting, verbatim, the research you used in your article etc... instead you are citing the work and it's location so others can access it. So they can see how your work compares, what you're building on or replicating. It's pretty basic college level work in the sciences.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Tbh this isnt a thread to argue about how good clones are or not. Some like popping seeds some like to grow clones. It's not about drama, it's about preserving unique clone only plants for the future.
The title of the thread is HpLVd. Now it's about preserving some unique cut?

I could care less about these cuts. Tomorrow someone will make a cross and pop a seed of something better.

I stand by my comments about this cut/pheno/breeder soap opera drama because that's what it is.

Have fun chasing.
 

sunsetdaydreamer

Well-Known Member
The title of the thread is HpLVd. Now it's about preserving some unique cut?

I could care less about these cuts. Tomorrow someone will make a cross and pop a seed of something better.

I stand by my comments about this cut/pheno/breeder soap opera drama because that's what it is.

Have fun chasing.
Well it has to be about preservation.. If it was a plant you didn't want to preserve, you could toss it in the bin and clean down. Then hplvd wouldn't be an issue.

We all have our tastes or opinions.. There drama in every hobby... Golf, fishing or whatever. Especially on the forums and Instagram etc.
 

Smallbud

Well-Known Member
It wasn't theirs to copy right or steal since they used other references

References
  1. Hammond RW, Owens RA. Viroids: New and Continuing Risks for Horticultural and Agricultural Crops. APSnet Featur Artic. 2006. doi:10.1094/apsnetfeature-2006-1106
  2. Viroids – an overview | ScienceDirect Topics. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/viroids. Accessed January 13, 2021.
  3. Puchta H, Ramm K, Sänger HL. The molecular structure of hop latent viroid (HLV), a new viroid occurring worldwide in hops. Nucleic Acids Res. 1988;16(10):4197-4216. doi:10.1093/nar/16.10.4197
  4. Chang T-J, Yang D-M, Wang M-L, et al. Genomic analysis and comparative multiple sequences of SARS-CoV2. J Chinese Med Assoc. 2020;83(6):537-543. doi:10.1097/JCMA.0000000000000335
  5. van Bakel H, Stout JM, Cote AG, et al. The draft genome and transcriptome of Cannabis sativa. Genome Biol. 2011;12(10):R102. doi:10.1186/gb-2011-12-10-r102
  6. Owens RA, Hammond RW. Viroid pathogenicity: One process, many faces. Viruses. 2009;1(2):298-316. doi:10.3390/v1020298
  7. Mink GI. POLLEN-AND SEED-TRANSMITTED VIRUSES AND VIROIDS. Vol 31.; 1993. www.annualreviews.org. Accessed October 23, 2018.
  8. Adkar-Purushothama CR, Perreault JP. Current overview on viroid–host interactions. Wiley Interdiscip Rev RNA. 2020;11(2). doi:10.1002/wrna.1570
  9. Pethybridge SJ, Hay FS, Barbara DJ, Eastwell KC, Wilson CR. Viruses and Viroids Infecting Hop: Significance, Epidemiology, and Management. 2008. doi:10.1094/PDIS-92-3-0324
  10. Paduch-Cichal E, Kryczyński S. A Low Temperature Therapy and Meristem-Tip Culture for Eliminating four Viroids from Infected Plants. J Phytopathol. 1987;118(4):341-346. doi:10.1111/j.1439-0434.1987.tb00465.x

Where does it say hop virus affects hemp and marijuana in that!?

Never had this virus and grown alot. The virus in mj and hemp you showed looks like natural stress heat, light, water.

If every good grower indoors never gets it since their plants didn't tank I highly doubt I will either.

Wtf are you and D.Heart selling?
 

Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
Where does it say hop virus affects hemp and marijuana in that!?

Never had this virus and grown alot. The virus in mj and hemp you showed looks like natural stress heat, light, water.

If every good grower indoors never gets it since their plants didn't tank I highly doubt I will either.

Wtf are you and D.Heart selling?
HpLVd is infecting hemp and marijuana. What you are seeing is how viral infection affects nutrient uptake. You can find pictures two decades old of poorly grown marijuana crops all over the forums caused by grower error. Yes, you can screw up a grow and get bunk flowers that mimic dudding. During 2014-2018 there was denial that a pathogen was being passed along. It's 2021 and HpLVd is confirmed. Protect your wife and children. "It's just magnesium deficiency bro. Tis but a scratch!"
 
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