High PH signs, symptoms and correcting...Pictorial!! A must read for newb'z

sativa indica pits said:

It takes alot of water to leach lime. You could try correcting it with an acid that is stronger than lime.

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This post, this one RIGHT HERE is proof you know nothing about pH. An acid stronger than lime? Fucking lime is a base not an acid. I'd call you a moron but we're not supposed to call names here.

So have a good day.

dubcoastOGs said:

In soil - ph is a symptom, and tells you nothing about the real issue at hand

I'm really enjoying this now

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Your right but to an extent. If ph is the only limitation then its no longer a symptom and now becomes the cause. Before I can properly and accurately diagnose my plants or others, ph is #1 on my check list. Then soil and amendments, then water source/quality (measurements too), fertilizer, lights and enviromental conditions. I made a post eariler about "process of elimination" and i learned that in my minor degree. Basic concept really but its sadly not often used. Common sense is another and finally "every action has a reaction" seems to me any indoor grower has to recreate natural conditions as best he can. If he can't well that's a limitation is it not? Even 10 degrees under or over changes everything. And how can anyone argue with the notion that ph feed/plain water should be at 6.5 regardless of the soils ability to buffer. 6.5 is optimal why would you put in anything else ever. Unless a adjustment of ph is necessary but ok n small increments. Just enough not to cause run off but enough to cause a ph change up/down.

sativa indica pits said:

oh just another fun tid bit i found http://vric.ucdavis.edu/pdf/Soil/ChangingpHinSoil.pdf

thats straight from the university of California. good to know. I will consider this during my next greenhouse grow!!

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You're not growing in real soil on a greenhouse are you? Nice study, for actual soil. Fact is most decent CONTAINER mixes have plenty of pH buffer capability in them. They are designed that way, to be used with a WIDE range of water sources.

plaguedog said:

Of course and that's the whole point. pH can also change and very quickly IN YOUR WATER depending on what type of fertilizer you are using...Especially important is the type of nitrogen. I see it all the time, people in hydro using RO water and wondering why the fuck they get crazy pH swings. Because your water has little to no pH buffering capability.....

For some of you that think you can change the pH of a soil/soiless medium in a container crop that takes but a few months to grow are a little off base here. It takes longer than you think UNLESS your water source has a very HIGH alkalinity content in it to raise the substrate pH.

Almost all quality commercial soiless mediums are just fine out of the bag. A lot of them don't require extra lime (like promix) or for fucks sake all the perlite people like to mix in. Once you start fucking around by adding more drainage amendments, you start to screw with the CEC of the medium and just add to the problem.

This thread has some decent info in it, but a lot of real bad as well.

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Good information. Any time anyone adds to already fortified bag mixes should know the Cec of the additional amendments

plaguedog said:

I see it all the time, people in hydro using RO water and wondering why the fuck they get crazy pH swings. Because your water has little to no pH buffering capability.....

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this could be a number of factors, tells me nothing... my RO and rain water hold at a stable pH of 6.2. I used about 3000ppm of organic ACT in my flood rez, it does not smell like shit, I am a chemist and I know all about these things.

For some of you that think you can change the pH of a soil/soiless medium in a container crop that takes but a few months to grow are a little off base here. It takes longer than you think UNLESS your water source has a very HIGH alkalinity content in it to raise the substrate pH.

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sorry, this is complete nonsense and lies.. shame on you...

Almost all quality commercial soiless mediums are just fine out of the bag. A lot of them don't require extra lime (like promix) or for fucks sake all the perlite people like to mix in. Once you start fucking around by adding more drainage amendments, you start to screw with the CEC of the medium and just add to the problem.

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you must be getting special coco from space... coco has VERY little buffer... everything you say is becoming a lie.

This thread has some decent info in it, but a lot of real bad as well.

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the bad info is coming from people like you who do not know what they are talking about OR spreading lies on purpose.. Kick rocks..

tikitoker said:

Your right but to an extent. If ph is the only limitation then its no longer a symptom and now becomes the cause. Before I can properly and accurately diagnose my plants or others, ph is #1 on my check list. Then soil and amendments, then water source/quality (measurements too), fertilizer, lights and enviromental conditions. I made a post eariler about "process of elimination" and i learned that in my minor degree. Basic concept really but its sadly not often used. Common sense is another and finally "every action has a reaction" seems to me any indoor grower has to recreate natural conditions as best he can. If he can't well that's a limitation is it not? Even 10 degrees under or over changes everything. And how can anyone argue with the notion that ph feed/plain water should be at 6.5 regardless of the soils ability to buffer. 6.5 is optimal why would you put in anything else ever. Unless a adjustment of ph is necessary but ok n small increments. Just enough not to cause run off but enough to cause a ph change up/down.

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I'll tell you why, because in my experience it isn't worth the time. If your water source is so hard then by all means. Fact is most municipal tap water isn't that hard. Well water can be a problem. Along time ago I used to worry about pH before I knew what my water source was, and how it reacts with the type of nutrients I used. Then I stopped and never looked back. My water is 7.6 pH out of the tap and I never have pH issues because I use a decent commercial soiless mix, and the water doesn't have a high alkalinity content. Most of the nutrients people use LOWER the pH of your water not raise it depending on the type of nitrogen in it. Ammonical and Urea tend to lower it more than nitrate sources.

I garden all the time and read many forums and never have I seen so many people growing in containers with soiless/soil mixes as I have seen people worry about pH as MJ growers. It's like a bad disease on these forums.

I see guys on these forums have so many issues when they try to adjust things, only to find out their pH meter wasn't calibrated correctly and that just compounded the problem. I also see people poo-pooing pH drops which is idiotic. Drops don't lie, you get the pH close to the range you need the plants will be fine in hydro. Pro's(huge hydro growers...) use them, they don't waste their fucking time with pH meters they have to fuck with every day.

plaguedog said:

Along time ago I used to worry about pH before I knew what my water source was, and how it reacts with the type of nutrients I used. Then I stopped and never looked back. My water is 7.6 pH out of the tap and I never have pH issues because I use a decent commercial soiless mix, and the water doesn't have a high alkalinity content.

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this is why you can't re-use your medium... so what are you fertilizing the coco with and at what pH? lolol... 7.6? I doubt that, it will make your plants sick, real fast but the pH buffer of tap water at 7.6 is not enough to probably kill your plants. If you flush your medium with a few gallons of tap water @ 7.6, see what happens.. I bet you the nitrogen and phosphorous will begin to lock out, followed by cal and mag.


soil buffers are designed for people who do not go the extra-mile for their cannabis.

tiki. I think the general consensus (at least from our side of the table) is that Ph adjusting your nutrient regime, or plain water, can actually do more harm than good. I think alot depends on what your using to adjust ph. not talking soil ammendments here, just the water going in. It's better to let the soil adjust it, than to force it with things like potassium hydroxide, or soidum bisulfate, or even vinegar. It's just not neccessary. That's all we're trying to say here. nobody ever said ph is non-important. I feel like you knew that though.

plaguedog said:

You're not growing in real soil on a greenhouse are you? Nice study, for actual soil. Fact is most decent CONTAINER mixes have plenty of pH buffer capability in them. They are designed that way, to be used with a WIDE range of water sources.

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Exactly! There is a huge difference between mineralized soils found outside and the peat/coco based mixes we use in our containers.

dubcoastOGs said:

tiki. I think the general consensus (at least from our side of the table) is that Ph adjusting your nutrient regime, or plain water, can actually do more harm than good. I think alot, depends on what your using to adjust ph. not talking soil ammendments here, just the water going in. It's better to let the soil adjust it, than to force it with things like potassium hydroxide, or soidum bisulfate, or even vinegar. It's just not neccessary. That's all we're trying to say here. nobody ever said ph is non-important. I feel like you knew that though.

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the General Hydro gear sux, imo... it is all pH salts and gets too salty if you are trying to stabilize tap water.. need a rez dump every week or two.. potassium hydroxide, careful if its the caustic version, yucky.. sodium bisulfate will release large amounts of sodium, you don't want that in the roots.. I use Earth Juice : Natural Down (citric acid), holds my coco+perlite flood-drain with 1-gallon buckets, perfectly... 3-4 ounces each is standard for my set-up.





here is a portion of one of my tents, I harvest about 2lbs per 1kw light. this is 10 days into 12/12..

the strains are DJ Short: BlueBerry, Paradise Seeds: Sensi Star, Sensi Seeds: NL5xHaze, pSi-Pink Haze, pSi-Deep Blue, pSi-Clops; Nor-Cal clones ~ L.S.D., UK Cheese, T.G.A.: Agent Orange, Blue Kush, Cherry Pie, Ken's GDP, and Cherry Kush

pSi007 said:

this is why you can't re-use your medium... so what are you fertilizing the coco with and at what pH? lolol... 7.6? I doubt that, it will make your plants sick, real fast.

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I don't use coco, and BS you can't reuse your medium. If you do, you will have to amend it for sure. But not right out of the bag. What do you think I'm just making this shit up? Keep on thinking pH is the cause to all plant problems in containers....lol Coco has shit all buffer capability, one of the reasons I don't use it. It works fine if you want to be hanging around the garden all day long. I have little time for that. I don't grow to sell, I grow not to buy. Peat based mixes are soiless also.... Coco isn't the only substrate.

dubcoastOGs said:

tiki. I think the general consensus (at least from our side of the table) is that Ph adjusting your nutrient regime, or plain water, can actually do more harm than good. I think alot, depends on what your using to adjust ph. not talking soil ammendments here, just the water going in. It's better to let the soil adjust it, than to force it with things like potassium hydroxide, or soidum bisulfate, or even vinegar. It's just not neccessary. That's all we're trying to say here. nobody ever said ph is non-important. I feel like you knew that though.

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Thats right Dub. Every time you introduce pH up into your medium(hydro grows not included)your adding carbonates and sodium which will soon build up in the medium and start causing actual lockout/up conditions. Which in turn gets the grower trying to correct the problem only to add momentum to an already sinking ship. Its a vicious cycle I see played out on a daily bases.

pSi007 said:

this could be a number of factors, tells me nothing... my RO and rain water hold at a stable pH of 6.2. I used about 3000ppm of organic ACT in my flood rez, it does not smell like shit, I am a chemist and I know all about these things.




sorry, this is complete nonsense and lies.. shame on you...




you must be getting special coco from space... coco has VERY little buffer... everything you say is becoming a lie.






the bad info is coming from people like you who do not know what they are talking about OR spreading lies on purpose.. Kick rocks..

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WTF are you even talking about? Where did I mention COCO? I should say commercial PEAT based container mixes. Most fucking greenhouse ops wouldn't be caught dead using coco. To expensive, no buffer capability. NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

Fucking pot growers think they are the next big thing when most of you would go broke in a week while trying to commercially grow anything else.....

A little background here. I worked in one of the most successful and largest perennial growing companies in the midwest when i was younger for over 5 years. You think we fucked with pH all day long when growing thousands of perennials in containers to sell wholesale and retail? And I am talking about top notch perennials here, 100's of varieties. I learned a shit load about growing in containers when i worked there.

Only on pot forums do i see people worry so much about pH. Yes it matters but all you micromanagers don't get the fact that there are a number of variables here and adjusting your water source to the "perfect" pH isn't all it's cracked up to be. More plant problems in containers come from moisture stress (over fertilization, under or over watering) then pH problems alone. That's a FACT.

plaguedog said:

Fucking pot growers think they are the next big thing when most of you would go broke in a week while trying to commercially grow anything else.....

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Absolutely no question about that!

they're pretty good at growing, and distrubuting bullshit.

is there any mention in this thread about what soil the OP uses? or if he mixed his own, what ammendments? also what water source? what nutrients? and what other bottles of crap are going in there? aside from almost pure PH up, lol.

I have to thank the hack that posted this thread. His ignorance concerning ph has motivated people with hampsters that really do spin the wheel to contribute to this thread making it worth more than what it was before, which was a pile of indica shits. The sad thing is that the op continues to try and spread lies throughout the plant problems section, providing new growers with serious issues with misinformation. I urge anyone with a monitor to keep an eye on mr indica shits and feel free to correct his stupidity when they stumble upon it. Thanxs for trying to keep rui free from trash.

pSi007 said:

the General Hydro gear sux, imo... it is all pH salts and gets too salty if you are trying to stabilize tap water.. need a rez dump every week or two.. potassium hydroxide, careful if its the caustic version, yucky.. sodium bisulfate will release large amounts of sodium, you don't want that in the roots.. I use Earth Juice : Natural Down (citric acid), holds my coco+perlite flood-drain with 1-gallon buckets, perfectly... 3-4 ounces each is standard for my set-up.

...

here is a portion of one of my tents, I harvest about 2lbs per 1kw light. this is 10 days into 12/12..

the strains are DJ Short: BlueBerry, Paradise Seeds: Sensi Star, Sensi Seeds: NL5xHaze, pSi-Pink Haze, pSi-Deep Blue, pSi-Clops; Nor-Cal clones ~ L.S.D., UK Cheese, T.G.A.: Agent Orange, Blue Kush, Cherry Pie, Ken's GDP, and Cherry Kush

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pSi, With all due respect, of course. posting pics of your grow, and or just typing about your setup, or what you do. Really isn't worth shit online. You must know this.

when people start rambling off about themselves. it's hard to take them seriously. just like the OP has demonstrated.

plaguedog said:

and BS you can't reuse your medium.

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I re-use my medium.. I grow baseball bat sized stalks with re-used medium. I don't need to decontaminate because I don't use tap water with water-softeners and a shitty pH.


kick rocks, dub... you have no friends.

get a new line.