Possible light stress/overwater/high EC?

Dirig0 · Saturday at 12:12 PM

Hey guys! Semi newbie here getting back into the swing of things after taking a 8 year hiatus. Bit of learning experience switching from 1k HID to LEDs and VPD. But anyways here’s what I’m dealing with.

5 different strains all week 5 of veg, temps hover around 75-78 rh 60-70 and 72/60 lights out leaf surface temps around 75 soil temp at 68, VPD of.8-1.2, slowly been increasing from .5 throughout the weeks. Growing in mix of 70%FFOF20%HF with roughly 10% added perlite and about a cup of worm castings. Lights are photobio mx2 680w turned down to 30% at 36’ above canopy which brings me to right around 300 ppfd. My parameters seem pretty on point but here’s my issue. I just transplanted from #6 pots after seeing rootbound symptoms into 5 gallons, but I also swapped to 2 4x4 LEDs from 1 1k MH, the ppfd levels are the same but the spectrum might be a little different. When I transplanted I watered with 6.5 250ppm (well water at 80ppm raised to 250 with calmag) until just a light bit of runoff. Runoff was around 5ec which seems to be normal with fresh FF and could’ve been concentrated since it was only about a cup of runoff, ph was 6.5. Plants seemed to love it immediately, where doing fantastic, praying and nice deep green color coming back. But it’s been 7 days since the transplant and the soil still seems kinda moist 2 inches below top soil. Plants have all started to have a slight droop at the new growth sites along with slight taco and lime green center, my theory is maybe a combination of slight overwater symptoms from transplant along with high EC as water evaporated around roots and possible light stress from swapping to LED. Maybe transpiration issues with fans on canopy? Just wanted some advice from some veterans here to help steer me in the right direction. Was thinking of watering the droopiest and typically thirstiest plant with recharge until 10% runoff to get some numbers and see if it’s maybe just under watering from the whole transplant limbo. Any advice appreciated!

Wastei · Saturday at 12:24 PM

Dirig0 said:
Hey guys! Semi newbie here getting back into the swing of things after taking a 8 year hiatus. Bit of learning experience switching from 1k HID to LEDs and VPD. But anyways here’s what I’m dealing with.

5 different strains all week 5 of veg, temps hover around 75-78 rh 60-70 and 72/60 lights out leaf surface temps around 75 soil temp at 68, VPD of.8-1.2, slowly been increasing from .5 throughout the weeks. Growing in mix of 70%FFOF20%HF with roughly 10% added perlite and about a cup of worm castings. Lights are photobio mx2 680w turned down to 30% at 36’ above canopy which brings me to right around 300 ppfd. My parameters seem pretty on point but here’s my issue. I just transplanted from #6 pots after seeing rootbound symptoms into 5 gallons, but I also swapped to 2 4x4 LEDs from 1 1k MH, the ppfd levels are the same but the spectrum might be a little different. When I transplanted I watered with 6.5 250ppm (well water at 80ppm raised to 250 with calmag) until just a light bit of runoff. Runoff was around 5ec which seems to be normal with fresh FF and could’ve been concentrated since it was only about a cup of runoff, ph was 6.5. Plants seemed to love it immediately, where doing fantastic, praying and nice deep green color coming back. But it’s been 7 days since the transplant and the soil still seems kinda moist 2 inches below top soil. Plants have all started to have a slight droop at the new growth sites along with slight taco and lime green center, my theory is maybe a combination of slight overwater symptoms from transplant along with high EC as water evaporated around roots and possible light stress from swapping to LED. Maybe transpiration issues with fans on canopy? Just wanted some advice from some veterans here to help steer me in the right direction. Was thinking of watering the droopiest and typically thirstiest plant with recharge until 10% runoff to get some numbers and see if it’s maybe just under watering from the whole transplant limbo. Any advice appreciated!

You're letting the pots go too dry between waterings causing EC spikes in the medium hence the drooping. 5.0 EC on the runoff is way high in veg. It's better to start with a lighter seedling mix and later transplant into a stronger mix for late veg and flower.

You shouldn't have to feed anything other than water for the first 4-6 weeks after transplant. Only start adding plant food when the plants start look hungry in a heavily amended soil.

Cheers!

Dirig0 · Saturday at 12:31 PM

Wastei said:
You're letting the pots go too dry between waterings causing EC spikes in the medium hence the drooping. 5.0 EC on the runoff is way high in veg. It's better to start with a lighter seedling mix and later transplant into a stronger mix for late veg and flower.

You shouldn't have to feed anything other than water for the first 4-6 weeks after transplant. Only start adding plant food when the plants start look hungry in a heavily amended soil.

Cheers!

Thank you! That’s what I was thinking, I figured they were just thirsty combined with a heavily amended soil causing nutrient lockout like symptoms. I’ll give them a solid watering and see what the runoff EC is. Appreciate it!

Boatguy · Saturday at 1:32 PM

Dirig0 said:
Hey guys! Semi newbie here getting back into the swing of things after taking a 8 year hiatus. Bit of learning experience switching from 1k HID to LEDs and VPD. But anyways here’s what I’m dealing with.

5 different strains all week 5 of veg, temps hover around 75-78 rh 60-70 and 72/60 lights out leaf surface temps around 75 soil temp at 68, VPD of.8-1.2, slowly been increasing from .5 throughout the weeks. Growing in mix of 70%FFOF20%HF with roughly 10% added perlite and about a cup of worm castings. Lights are photobio mx2 680w turned down to 30% at 36’ above canopy which brings me to right around 300 ppfd. My parameters seem pretty on point but here’s my issue. I just transplanted from #6 pots after seeing rootbound symptoms into 5 gallons, but I also swapped to 2 4x4 LEDs from 1 1k MH, the ppfd levels are the same but the spectrum might be a little different. When I transplanted I watered with 6.5 250ppm (well water at 80ppm raised to 250 with calmag) until just a light bit of runoff. Runoff was around 5ec which seems to be normal with fresh FF and could’ve been concentrated since it was only about a cup of runoff, ph was 6.5. Plants seemed to love it immediately, where doing fantastic, praying and nice deep green color coming back. But it’s been 7 days since the transplant and the soil still seems kinda moist 2 inches below top soil. Plants have all started to have a slight droop at the new growth sites along with slight taco and lime green center, my theory is maybe a combination of slight overwater symptoms from transplant along with high EC as water evaporated around roots and possible light stress from swapping to LED. Maybe transpiration issues with fans on canopy? Just wanted some advice from some veterans here to help steer me in the right direction. Was thinking of watering the droopiest and typically thirstiest plant with recharge until 10% runoff to get some numbers and see if it’s maybe just under watering from the whole transplant limbo. Any advice appreciated!

Looks like a whole host of issues... Measuring runoff ppm from a soil mix wont help you.
With your approach toward growing i suggest trying something more suited to it. Cocoa, dtw, dwc, or any of that sort of thing.
Good luck with this grow :leaf:

Hollatchaboy · Saturday at 2:02 PM

Dirig0 said:
Hey guys! Semi newbie here getting back into the swing of things after taking a 8 year hiatus. Bit of learning experience switching from 1k HID to LEDs and VPD. But anyways here’s what I’m dealing with.

5 different strains all week 5 of veg, temps hover around 75-78 rh 60-70 and 72/60 lights out leaf surface temps around 75 soil temp at 68, VPD of.8-1.2, slowly been increasing from .5 throughout the weeks. Growing in mix of 70%FFOF20%HF with roughly 10% added perlite and about a cup of worm castings. Lights are photobio mx2 680w turned down to 30% at 36’ above canopy which brings me to right around 300 ppfd. My parameters seem pretty on point but here’s my issue. I just transplanted from #6 pots after seeing rootbound symptoms into 5 gallons, but I also swapped to 2 4x4 LEDs from 1 1k MH, the ppfd levels are the same but the spectrum might be a little different. When I transplanted I watered with 6.5 250ppm (well water at 80ppm raised to 250 with calmag) until just a light bit of runoff. Runoff was around 5ec which seems to be normal with fresh FF and could’ve been concentrated since it was only about a cup of runoff, ph was 6.5. Plants seemed to love it immediately, where doing fantastic, praying and nice deep green color coming back. But it’s been 7 days since the transplant and the soil still seems kinda moist 2 inches below top soil. Plants have all started to have a slight droop at the new growth sites along with slight taco and lime green center, my theory is maybe a combination of slight overwater symptoms from transplant along with high EC as water evaporated around roots and possible light stress from swapping to LED. Maybe transpiration issues with fans on canopy? Just wanted some advice from some veterans here to help steer me in the right direction. Was thinking of watering the droopiest and typically thirstiest plant with recharge until 10% runoff to get some numbers and see if it’s maybe just under watering from the whole transplant limbo. Any advice appreciated!

Everytime you water to runoff with ffhf/ffof, you wash out all the nutrients in the medium. Organic soil, doesn't need runoff, or calmag.

Ppfd in veg, for plants that size, should be closer to 400-500, strain dependent.

Temps for led should be in the lower to mid 80's.

Looks like they may be thirsty. They look more like they're wilting, than drooping. Hard to tell from the pics though.
Are the containers light?

Dirig0 · Saturday at 5:02 PM

Hollatchaboy said:
Everytime you water to runoff with ffhf/ffof, you wash out all the nutrients in the medium. Organic soil, doesn't need runoff, or calmag.

Ppfd in veg, for plants that size, should be closer to 400-500, strain dependent.

Temps for led should be in the lower to mid 80's.

Looks like they may be thirsty. They look more like they're wilting, than drooping. Hard to tell from the pics though.
Are the containers light?

Yes I try not to get much runoff, and I know with FF being semi organic the runoff won’t really tell me too much anyways until I deplete most of the organic nutrients and supplement with salts. I only use 1ml calmag because my well water is very soft, but I’ve read FF should have plenty of calcium and magnesium so I’ll just pause on the cm for a month or so. I was keeping the temp around 78-80 but I backed off when I saw what seemed like light stress from the new LEDs, I also dialed back the % to drop the ppfd for the same reason, just to give them a cushion while they focused on root development after the transplant. Honestly I feel kinda dumb because I do believe they were just thirsty and a little worn out from the lights since I took those photos 14 hours into their day. They look like they’re getting better today just from dialing back the light and I watered one of the more vigorous strains and she’s perking up already. So all in all I believe it was just lack of turgor and too much intensity after the transplant. But as I said it’s been years, and I’m a little rusty and I’m also starting to think FF isn’t as great as it was years ago. But I appreciate everyone’s replies and I’ll keep updating here as I progress! Thanks again!

Hollatchaboy · Saturday at 5:11 PM

Dirig0 said:
Yes I try not to get much runoff, and I know with FF being semi organic the runoff won’t really tell me too much anyways until I deplete most of the organic nutrients and supplement with salts. I only use 1ml calmag because my well water is very soft, but I’ve read FF should have plenty of calcium and magnesium so I’ll just pause on the cm for a month or so. I was keeping the temp around 78-80 but I backed off when I saw what seemed like light stress from the new LEDs, I also dialed back the % to drop the ppfd for the same reason, just to give them a cushion while they focused on root development after the transplant. Honestly I feel kinda dumb because I do believe they were just thirsty and a little worn out from the lights since I took those photos 14 hours into their day. They look like they’re getting better today just from dialing back the light and I watered one of the more vigorous strains and she’s perking up already. So all in all I believe it was just lack of turgor and too much intensity after the transplant. But as I said it’s been years, and I’m a little rusty and I’m also starting to think FF isn’t as great as it was years ago. But I appreciate everyone’s replies and I’ll keep updating here as I progress! Thanks again!

If you're talking about ff soil, it's not semi organic. It is organic.

This is what it get from ffhf/ffof....

For the most part, it's tsp water only, and top dress with ffof. At flip it's flower girl, plus more ffof. Repeat every 2 weeks till last flower, and top water recharge every week.

You just gotta learn how to use it.

Dirig0 · Saturday at 5:28 PM

Hollatchaboy said:
If you're talking about ff soil, it's not semi organic. It is organic.

This is what it get from ffhf/ffof....View attachment 5458861
View attachment 5458862

For the most part, it's tsp water only, and top dress with ffof. At flip it's flower girl, plus more ffof. Repeat every 2 weeks till last flower, and top water recharge every week.

You just gotta learn how to use it.

Oh wow, well damn that’s good news then. I kept doom scrolling Reddit and forums and everyone kept smashing on FF but I remember I had fantastic results through 20-30 different runs using strictly ffof with their trio and dry amendments. I only meant semi organic since they use high amounts of anmmonium nitrate along with organic material, also their trio is salt based except for big bloom I believe. But that’s good news, I think I’m just off to a bumpy start with these LEDs and transplant. I just watered one of them with 1 gallon plain well water with 3/4 tsp of recharge and she’s looking great already. I think I’ll stick with plain water/microbes for a couple more weeks then start supplementing with the trio once they look hungry.

Hollatchaboy · Saturday at 5:38 PM

Dirig0 said:
Oh wow, well damn that’s good news then. I kept doom scrolling Reddit and forums and everyone kept smashing on FF but I remember I had fantastic results through 20-30 different runs using strictly ffof with their trio and dry amendments. I only meant semi organic since they use high amounts of anmmonium nitrate along with organic material, also their trio is salt based except for big bloom I believe. But that’s good news, I think I’m just off to a bumpy start with these LEDs and transplant. I just watered one of them with 1 gallon plain well water with 3/4 tsp of recharge and she’s looking great already. I think I’ll stick with plain water/microbes for a couple more weeks then start supplementing with the trio once they look hungry.

Yea ocean forest contains ammonium nitrate. It's what makes it hot. I just use it for top dressing. It's gotta be pretty good though, cuz i have a bag sitting in a tote, for the past couple months. I opened it and found this.....

When i top dressed with it, this happened....

With that much fungus, it's gotta be good stuff.

Possible light stress/overwater/high EC?

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