Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
IMO ... ignore it . It’s flowering every which a ways .
Help? Never seen this before! Mutant or???
- Thread starter JakStraw from Wichita
- Start date
neville930
Active Member
How much light. They will foxtail if there is too much
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Wonder what has changed in the last two grows compared to previous ones? Even the leaves do not look right in the first set of pictures posted. The first two pictures in post 15 look lovely. What could have changed?
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
there is something fishy going on with the *node* itself, this:
is not properly formed.
@ OP
did you use motherplants (guess so...) or clones from clones from clones.... anyway, this here is a very fine example + proof of how fast things can go astray sometimes (there's people denying this...)
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
If this has been happening the last 2 grows it would seem likely that SOMETHING has changed in the OPs grow, or the genetics got damaged from any number of issues (pests,pathogen, or environmental conditions). This did not just happen from taking clones off clones off clones.
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
of course, please don't take my statement in a way as if I would suggest that the cause of it is the cloning process in itself. But thing is, plants can get a number of issues - some may not even be currently known - but the cloning process actually preserves them as well... in contrast to if one goes by seed, upon harvest any acquired weakness may die with it.
So many places that look fishy - IMO we have a TRUE genetic mutation here - plus the internodes are sort of too long and the stem-materiaul also doesn't look right (where are the "lines" or patterns...)
zooming in doesn't give a precise view though... but what I can observe is:
- main shoot axxis doesn't grow strictly gravitrope
- nodes lack thickness + add. material to give strength to the sideshoots/fanleaves
- stems generally are too thin (notice how he had to artifically support them)
- alternating shoots are not 180° but sometimes just 90° (big blue circle)
there are indeed suspicious dots @ the lower fanleaves (Thripse?)
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
Thanks for looking into it, yes had thripes for a min but they are gone... and I’ve been cloning and cloning off this BD strand for years, have had its share of different stresses thru it’s days. Maybe it’s mutating from some stressful past life’s? I’m using 6x1000 hps and 1x600 mh
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
This is the grand daddy perp in same room, same nutes, same everything doing great, so that’s why I’m not to concerned about those parameters, there’s just something really strange with that BD lately
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
its buds look nice, but what I find strange are the 3-fingered fanleaves... usually thats a sign of light deprivation (also weak stems)
HPS + MH rocks - together its the best spectrum so far, almost sunlight-alike, although one would need the same number and then evenly distributed.
How great is your area?
yeah if its genetic it wont be contagious
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I’m pretty certain thrips are among the list of pests which can cause permanent damage to the plant. I am not however an expert on pests so further research would be best.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
The only issue I see is overfed plants. The bud growth at the bottom is just coming out of a node and is not uncommon to see. It is not robbing nutrients from the top cola's and removing it will not make the top cola's bigger. The top buds are small and stunted from overfeeding. There isn't much you can do about it now.
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
Feed once daily using coco as my medium, alternate every other day between calcium nitrate @ 700 ppm, then next day once daily using Peters hydro 15-11-26 @ 800 ppm, ph is 5.9-6.1, humidity is round 60-70 (I know it high) and temp is round mid 70-80 with lights on. Room is 22’x18’ with fresh air in 8” vortex, 2x12” circulating vortex, and 10” vortex exhaust right out chimney of house. So when ya say over feeding... to much nutes because it can’t be feeding to often right?
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Got me stumped. Nothing changed since previous grows with same clone stock. And the other variety is performing as per normal. Most curious and interesting situation.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I don't know what you did but those BD in the first set of pictures all have extremely clawed leaves which is not normal and a sign of overfeeding.
Why are you alternating the feeding between the Peters and calcium nitrate? You can mix the calcium nitrate and the Peters into the same nutrient solution and feed that each watering which is how it is intended to be used. Not one this day and the other the next.
You're feeding 700 ppm of calcium nitrate every other day. Yes that's overfeeding. You can't look at those plants and the clawing and not notice something was wrong?
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
ive mixed them for 20+years but at bottom of barrel there is always calcium chunks, so I went with using two different barrels and the calcification went away, so now all the calcium is dissolved in one barrel and the Peters is all dissolved in separate barrel.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
700 ppm of calcium nitrate at one feeding is too much. Have you been doing it that way for 20 years? I mix basically the same thing and have been doing it for years as well. The Method for mixing is to dissolve the Peters and then add it to the solution. Then dissolve the calcium nitrate and add it to the solution. If you mix quantities that will sit for awhile you need something in the barrel like a pump on the bottom to keep the solution stirred up.
I find it odd that if you've been feeding this way for 20 years that you haven't had issues until now. Are your plants leaves always clawed like that?
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
I be always mixed it the way you are stating and always use an air pump for circulation, 55 gal barrel but I go thru that in one day roughly so it doesn’t sit for a long amount of time by any means, but yes for 20 some years always had and issue with massive calcium build up in bottom of barrels and even on drip systems with this solution it would clog pumps and lines with calcium, first time I’ve tried the 2 barrel method and like I said Im not getting ANY calcium left in bottom of barrel, I do know if ya mix the two (Peters and calcium) it will instantly precipitate and render useless, so when using one barrel its 30 gal water and add peters then when it’s almost full (50 gal) add calcium, this recipe has worked well with skunk 1, GSC, granddaddy perp, and other shit I’ve experimented with, the BD has been fine for a few years now just the last 2 crops its doing this
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Can you post pics of the runs before you encountered this erratic growth (but used the same feeding schedule).
Heavy N overfeed would actually create darkgreen clawing leaves - but, it appears, that the darker leaves (at the top of each cola) don't claw but look healthy, whereas the brighter ones look erratic. I do not see any clawing at all - they are just weak.
It could be that you got such a tremendous salt builtup in your pot that the plant lost parts of its ability to draw nutritients from the soil - in this case it may only "drink" and take the nutes from its leaves instead ("auto-cannibalism") which always starts at the bottom of the fanleaves, and slowly works upwards.
If your plant would be in a true physiological state of N-tox abundancy then your buds wouldn't have swollen at all, because such a state is heavily stunting a plant, also resulting sometimes in a full yellow newgrowth of shoots.
Could you also take some measurements like
- drain EC & pH
- slurry pH & EC test (proper slurry EC is difficult to do correctly - you know the standardized "1:5 method" that many soil manufacturers use?)
Huow much do you drain with each consecutive watering? (I agree you could always water with the same, although even soilless buffers quite something, so that shouldn't be the culprit)
Heavy overfeeding wouldn't complain why e.g. the phyllotaxis is out of whack, esp. not on clones that, most likely, aren't fed at all...
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
I don’t have EC meter but will test run off with TDS, and WTF is a ph slurry?, I use 1 gallon every time I feed and get probably a pint run off. And i have no other pics of my room except all I’ve shared here, I try to stay under radar and pics seem sketch but I did it here cuz I need the help. BTW thanks for your time
JakStraw from Wichita
Active Member
I’ll also add that this is 4th round on the coco and I’ve never really “cleaned/flushed“ it, nute build up in coco from not flushing?