Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
What's the evidence for this? Or maybe you could supply a good reason why we should all just take your word for it?
Health of Organic vs Synthetic Flowers
- Thread starter sourgummy
- Start date
What's the evidence for this? Or maybe you could supply a good reason why we should all just take your word for it?
Olive Drab Green
Well-Known Member
Acapulco Gold grown with Roots Organics 5 weeks and a day into flower:
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
BTW, I've gone at this with Yodaweed before, his claims about organic and terps don't have any substance. The one study I already mentioned. Flavinoids only seem to appear in the context of cannabis when organic growers are trying to justify it, otherwise there isn't any reason to think flavinoids have any impact on the smell/taste of Cannabis except that the words seem similar.
Just a couple a months ago Yodaweed was claiming that organic supplies "hundreds of elements" that you don't get from using inorganic fertilizer and was therefore superior. So his ability to evaluate the evidence is suspect, to say it nicely.
Just a couple a months ago Yodaweed was claiming that organic supplies "hundreds of elements" that you don't get from using inorganic fertilizer and was therefore superior. So his ability to evaluate the evidence is suspect, to say it nicely.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
Well this thread started out interesting but as usual egos take over and it quickly devolves into yet another measuring contest.
And pictures don't prove anything other than a persons ability to grow a plant. It is, after all, just gardening.
Does anyone have any sources they could cite please?
I'm interested in this topic and plan to run a few side by sides. Mostly because I'm tired of all the bottled lines I have taking up space and I'd like to use them up rather than let them go to waste.
Still not sure what approach I'll take but I'm going to put everything I have up against my soil and see what happens.
And, I'll probably start a journal as a way to help me keep track rather than take notes. My findings will be purely anecdotal unless I decide later on to send some product out for testing.
If anyone's interested the nutes I'm going to run
NFTGs (I think this one has like 8 bottles!!!)
Roots (dry and liquids)
GH (using the lucus formula)
Dyna (FP and Protekt)
Botanicare (kind)
If anyone has any experience running any of the above I'd love to hear your thoughts on them.
(OP, I really would like to read whatever you found for studies on this. I could search myself but I'd inevitably lose my train of thought and end up on eBay buying shit or right back here, lol)
And pictures don't prove anything other than a persons ability to grow a plant. It is, after all, just gardening.
Does anyone have any sources they could cite please?
I'm interested in this topic and plan to run a few side by sides. Mostly because I'm tired of all the bottled lines I have taking up space and I'd like to use them up rather than let them go to waste.
Still not sure what approach I'll take but I'm going to put everything I have up against my soil and see what happens.
And, I'll probably start a journal as a way to help me keep track rather than take notes. My findings will be purely anecdotal unless I decide later on to send some product out for testing.
If anyone's interested the nutes I'm going to run
NFTGs (I think this one has like 8 bottles!!!)
Roots (dry and liquids)
GH (using the lucus formula)
Dyna (FP and Protekt)
Botanicare (kind)
If anyone has any experience running any of the above I'd love to hear your thoughts on them.
(OP, I really would like to read whatever you found for studies on this. I could search myself but I'd inevitably lose my train of thought and end up on eBay buying shit or right back here, lol)
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dstroy
Well-Known Member
There’s this one study:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2014/253875/
I haven’t really done any more research on it because who cares? The people who say they can tell the difference probably wouldn’t be able to in a blind test of the same strain. There have been a lot of studies about organic taste vs hydro taste. Some people just have a need to feel like what they are doing is better because they’re insecure as a person, so they fiercely and irrationally defend their beliefs because they have decided that they are “right” and you are “wrong”. Ain’t nobody got time for that shit.
As you can see in the study, there is a difference. But it is a very small difference.
Olive Drab Green
Well-Known Member
I run Roots Organics Dry Nutrients Player Pack and 5mL Master Pack exclusively. Highly recommended.
charface
Well-Known Member
Since the thread has derailed ill ask a semi related question.
I heard recently that there are microbes from soil that actually contribute to the developing terpenes.
I assumed they left the soil and did this from the exterior of the buds rather than via the roots.
I cant remember the source, maybe someone pushing his microbe line.
To me this isn't a hydro vs soil question because if true we could all benefit from applying the appropriate ones.
Anyone else hear about this?
I heard recently that there are microbes from soil that actually contribute to the developing terpenes.
I assumed they left the soil and did this from the exterior of the buds rather than via the roots.
I cant remember the source, maybe someone pushing his microbe line.
To me this isn't a hydro vs soil question because if true we could all benefit from applying the appropriate ones.
Anyone else hear about this?
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
Those are two I have plus an extra quart bottle of Surge that wasn't included in the Master Pack.
I have high hopes for this one but only because I've already tried the dry ingredients (sort of)
I had a couple plants I knew were going to push 80 days in flower so I topdressed my soil with a mixture of Roots Orig. soil, the dry nutes and some EWC around wk 4 of flower. It worked great and took the plants to the finish line. The only thing I needed to add other than water was one or two doses of Epsom.
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I bought some Jacks 321 formula and I think my next run will be just that. Ive already grown well enough in soil to compare something to it. I consistently have gotten great smells and tastes from my all organic flowers, so really I think I am a good person to at least try and check it out.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
I used botanicare kind trio for a couple of years. It is an excellent bottled line as the base is calcium nitrate and the rest of the nutrients are in the Grow and bloom bottle.
Also includes seaweed extract which is one organic substance proven to benefit our plant in a few ways. Micronutrients and natural growth hormones.
We tested using only base and grow. And base and bloom and both worked in flower pretty much the same.
Mixes clear and clean with no strong odor.
I would likely just use base and grow all the way through next time. It’s 3-1-2 if directions are followed but can lower the nitrogen when needed.
thenasty1
Well-Known Member
prove those pics are yours
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
I would be very interested to see this study you found that stated that organic soils lead to MORE heavy metals in cannabis. Everything I am reading is stating the exact opposite... do you have a source to site?
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I scanned over it and I'm going read it in its entirety and possibly read a few of the references cited. (I'm really fucking bored tonight) I've read similar articles in the Maine Blueberry Assoc. news letter we get. Those focused on flavonoids/antioxidants from organically grown wild blueberries and cognitive/brain develop.
I'd also like to see how much of this is related to cannabis being a biodynamic accumulator plant.
And I cant say for certain whether organic is "better". I'm not sure anyone can with certainty.
For me, its more important to have a healthy, pest and pathogen free plant brought to full maturity and cured well.
Anytime I've had weed taste off its because I fucked up my watering method or the drying/cure process.
dstroy
Well-Known Member
Yeah I get you, it’s an interesting topic if you look at it from an objective viewpoint.
I wish I had time to read about stuff like this more than I do.
Phytoremediation is what it’s called when you use a plant to leech heavy metals or other contaminants out of soil, cannabis is very good at doing that, it “accepts” heavy metals easily. So any excess heavy metals will be readily absorbed and retained in the plant tissues. Information about where it would be concentrated, I’m not sure about. Or how much of a certain substance in the soil needs to be present before it accumulates appreciably in plant tissue. It’s a fascinating subject.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
this article is interesting in reference to the heavy metal issue. https://www.analyticalcannabis.com/articles/how-to-test-for-heavy-metals-in-cannabis-296518
southernguy99
Well-Known Member
There is some truth to synthetic nutes in hydro system being cleaner and not leaving as much heavy metals etc in the plant/flowers, but its not as easy as just running hydro. first you need a good healthy root system the plant has be able to easily intake and discharge. second its all about the feed , when the plant is through its heaviest flower weeks and is starting to come to an end you need to start eliminating the elements it doesn't need. Remember a plant will uptake some elements whether it needs them or not , it just stores it, and some elements are not very moveable with in the plant. so the amounts of these elements have to be none or at least low enough that virtually all of it will be used, otherwise your last resort is getting them out in the flush.and third is the flush , Ideally a week of just pure clean water, and changed often. This can flush out a lot of stuff out of the plant. now i know some guys say no need to flush its a waist of time, here is what I say. take some samples of a plant that has not been flushed and send it out for testing for exactly what is in it and percentages. and then do the same for one that has been properly flushed for a week, and then say it doesn't matter.Also this is hard to do with bottled or pre made nutes because your always throwing shit at your plant it doesn't need, really you need to mix your own nutes and adjust the elements as needed.
Olive Drab Green
Well-Known Member
I used to have a bottle of Surge, too. When I was partners with that 50 year old hippie chick who I didn’t know was an incorrigible alcoholic and who eventually pulled a gun on me because I wouldn’t sleep with her. I also use a mixture of Roots 707 and GreenLite.
NaturalFarmer
Well-Known Member
As an organic farmer, I can tell you that it is obvious that soil on average is going to have more heavy metals than a salt based hydro nutrient. This doesn't mean however that the plant will uptake it. Much also depends where you are on this rock.
Lead concentrations are heaviest in soils near LA, Chicago and NYC because of leaded gasoline use in the 70's. Azomite is often used by cannabis growers (for some unknown reason to me) yet introduces levels of cadmium that would not be seen otherwise.
Early sources of Super rock phosphate came from Nauru (an island off of New Zealand) which were later found to be contaminated with cadmium.
Cadmium is of the biggest concern because it can be taken up by the plant unlike lead or arsenic.
High levels of SOM and a pH above 6.2 will lessen any uptake.
Again to the OP, whose soil and whose facts? It makes a big difference.
Lead concentrations are heaviest in soils near LA, Chicago and NYC because of leaded gasoline use in the 70's. Azomite is often used by cannabis growers (for some unknown reason to me) yet introduces levels of cadmium that would not be seen otherwise.
Early sources of Super rock phosphate came from Nauru (an island off of New Zealand) which were later found to be contaminated with cadmium.
Cadmium is of the biggest concern because it can be taken up by the plant unlike lead or arsenic.
High levels of SOM and a pH above 6.2 will lessen any uptake.
Again to the OP, whose soil and whose facts? It makes a big difference.
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dstroy
Well-Known Member
3.1. Role of Plants in Remediation of Arsenic
Plants require an adequate supply of all nutrients, as part of normal growth and development [58], including arsenic, for their normal physiological and biological functions.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/921581/
The reasons why plants accumulate and metabolize arsenic are considered in an evolutionary context.
https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1469-8137.2002.00363.x
People need arsenic too, but like a tiiiiiiny amount. Some elements are purely toxic to us though, such as mercury.
I wish there was more cannabis specific research, but rest assured, that it can and does absorb heavy metals.
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