Straw man much?
Entitlement mentality
- Thread starter RickWhite
- Start date
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Hey morgantaler, I see you're in Canada. How's the health care up there, in your opinion? Are Canadians laughing at us for being so morally bankrupt as to not provide health care for all our citizens? Or, given the chance, would you prefer a system like the US has?An "all sports lake" is one of the features they market on expensive building developments. It's not grammatically incorrect. Just a marketing term most people don't see.
Anyway, regarding the subject of degrees - all a degree means is that you've become specialized in a specific area of knowledge. This can be quite a feat depending on the degree, but does it make someone a better person than someone who doesn't have one. Hardly.
Even within those who hold degrees there classism... "My medical degree trumps your degree in post modern art." And then the guy with the art degree comes out from behind the counter and dumps fry oil on the pretentious doctor.
morgentaler
Well-Known Member
Our health care is pretty good. There's a shortage of doctors though, mainly because a doctor can go down to the US and make 4 times the income in a year.
So there can be waits for anything not deemed immediately life threatening. To get in to see a specialist for the first time for a chronic illness it can take around 3 months.
If you have a lump or, in my case, sudden overwhelming headaches you can be in for a scan within a week.
Because people don't have to worry about having to pay for a trip to the doctor they're less likely to put things off, so early detection of illnesses is more likely. But it also means for stuff like a CT scan you might need to be willing to go in in the middle of the night, because they're doing a lot of them.
You'll hear propaganda that socialized healthcare means no choice in doctors, but what we have here is actually socialized insurance. Think of the health insurance coverage as similar to police and fire protection. The fire department doesn't check to see if you have a pre-existing condition before they come to your house to put out a fire
Canadians definitely aren't laughing at Americans about their health care. In some ways, there are benefits to the American system. If you have the cash, you can get faster treatment.
But it also angers us to see how much you pay in taxes, and instead of everyone having access to decent health care, money goes to companies like Haliburton and Blackwater, whose contractors can make 10 times the salary of marine.
Or to see people paying out money to an HMO and be turned down because the fine print eliminated them for some triviality they weren't aware of.
So it appears that the Canadian system mostly works, but doesn't pay enough money to be competitive with the American system, so it's currently overburdened.
And on the American side, corporate profiteering on health care is rampant.
Where would I stand on health care reform in the US? I'm definitely for reform. What I've seen mostly in the news lately though, is that anyone that says they are open to reform is drowned out by people yelling loudly about misinformation, spouted by the likes of Sarah Palin. There's no death panel. But when she speaks, some people would rather run out and react, and drown out debate rather than let people talk out resolutions.
Being pro-reform doesn't mean agreeing with Obama either. And I think if people can learn to agree on that point it will make dialog easier. The folks that are really pro-Obama chant about change, and treat him like a messiah. But he's just a politician, and the thing about politics is that the lobby groups have the power. And if he wants to get re-elected he has to keep most of them happy.
It would be nice to see some kind of protection for Americans, since you're already paying the taxes anyway, to be able to get health care without having to put up your car or house for a sudden illness. But if your taxes aren't going to properly benefit you, then they should give the money back, so you can put it into what you choose on your own.
I prefer less government intervention over more. But at least you can change government. Good luck changing the mind of an HMO that has to answer to shareholders.
Whew!
I recently had the wife of an American friend tell me that it was wrong of the government to keep the health care bill a secret. I found a full copy of the most current version at that time, via google, within 30 seconds of her saying that. Did she bother to read it? Nope, she just started throwing out more crazy accusations as made by extreme right wingers.
People need to shut up the extremists on both sides, so that the reasonable people can meet in the middle and talk about things. Shutting down reform, or trying to rush it through, neither is going to come to a good end.
CrackerJax
New Member
Open up state lines for insurance purchasing and pull off the lawyers and have serious tort reform, and one can just sit back and watch PRIVATE health care costs PLUMMET downwards.
Obama won't even consider it. This tells you that he doesn't want to FIX private health care, he wants to destroy it.
Obama won't even consider it. This tells you that he doesn't want to FIX private health care, he wants to destroy it.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
those are the two items that are on everyone's wish list. everyone except the government and the millions of attorneys that control our lives.
government hates the idea of tort reform and the concept of allowing us more choice is antithetical to government's desire for more centralized control. freeing the medical profession from the threat of liberal judges and vindictive juries would do more than any other one thing to bring down the cost of health care, but getting rid of that mechanism of wealth redistribution is a complete reversal of the direction the liberal establishment wishes us to travel. without that possibility of something for nothing, the greedy mob would be forced to realize that personal responsibility and hard work are the only avenues open to them to better their lot in life and we can't have that. trying to hit the jackpot in court is a favorite pastime of many folks who live within the systems of the welfare state, it is the only way to release themselves from their self-imposed bondage to the nanny state without admitting that they exist by the grace of state enforced charity. without that imaginary payday looming in the future, the despair that is barely held off by their government provided comfortable poverty would come crashing in and they would be forced to recognize their slavery to the state.
without the multi-million dollar judgments to leech off of, many of the parasites of the legal profession would soon find themselves in the ranks of the unemployable. the con men of the law, malpractice and personal injury attorneys, have created an entire industry around claims for inflated damages, turning our courtrooms into casinos and our judicial system into a farce, and perverted the very meaning of justice. while we are busy branding the insurance industry as a monster that profits from the misery of others, the real culprits stand unaccused. turning common errors into piles of cash, they victimize both their clients and the medical profession to fatten their bank accounts and inflate their own self-image. let's not forget who we have placed in most every position of power in this country - lawyers. why would the denizens our government do anything to thwart the avarice of their fellow thieves? try to read any document generated by our bureaucracy and you'll find you need a lawyer to help you sort it out. they have complicated even the most mundane tasks with jargon that they invented and only they seem to understand. we have placed ourselves at their mercy and we are now expecting them to be kind? even to hope that they are willing to do what is right is incredibly naive.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
The reason malpractice insurance is so expensive for doctors? It's INSURANCE, that's why. There's a profit margin, just like health insurance. Malpractice suits make up a fraction of a percent of the cost of health care. A fraction of a percent of the cost isn't going to make any difference in insurance prices. Now, if we reformed the malpractice insurance industry so that they weren't charging doctors an arm and a leg for coverage, then MAYBE the doctors wouldn't have to charge so much for their services
Allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines is going to take us down the same road for health insurance that we've already been down for CREDIT CARDS. All the companies will locate in ONE state, with the least regulation, and continue to screw people over.
Morgantaler: Thanks for the perspective. I agree, being pro-reform doesn't mean you have to agree with Obama's plan. I'm more in favor of the bill that's been introduced for the past 6 years that would provide universal coverage for every american through the government. Strangely, even though this bill has been working its way through Congress for SIX YEARS now and is cosponsored by over 80 representatives, there's hardly a peep about it on the news or in the papers. I guess its just as well, with all the scaremongering about "socialism".
Allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines is going to take us down the same road for health insurance that we've already been down for CREDIT CARDS. All the companies will locate in ONE state, with the least regulation, and continue to screw people over.
Morgantaler: Thanks for the perspective. I agree, being pro-reform doesn't mean you have to agree with Obama's plan. I'm more in favor of the bill that's been introduced for the past 6 years that would provide universal coverage for every american through the government. Strangely, even though this bill has been working its way through Congress for SIX YEARS now and is cosponsored by over 80 representatives, there's hardly a peep about it on the news or in the papers. I guess its just as well, with all the scaremongering about "socialism".
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
No, YOU are the nobody. Just look at how much time you spend in this forum. I respond to a few threads here and there and it is too much, you spend what must be your every waking moment obsessing over every single post. Really I fail to see how it is even possible how you have a job. And that doesn't even take your crappy attitude into account.
You talk nonsense about me knowing nothing about the real world but I grew up working in the ghettos of Detroit for peanuts and I built my own success from nothing and unlike you, I didn't whine about how the world owes me a living and free health care. But I guess that is just another example of you pretending to have knowledge you don't which is obviously your standard MO.
You claim to know everything about every topic but you are in fact an ignoramus who simply talks from his ass. And, you believe 911 was a conspiracy which proves you are an idiot. Bottom line, if you are so smart, why is it I'm so much more successful than you - that's all I'm saying.
And by the way, where did you get all this alleged knowledge? Can you recommend any good authors or do you, like I said, just get all your info from the Daily Kos and Huffington Post? I noticed I asked you this before and you didn't respond so I guess that means you are just parroting what you read in the Liberal rags.
And by the way for those interested, an "all sports lake" is a lake upon which all forms of recreation are legal as opposed to restricted lakes which are usually smaller and ban certain activities or have vessel restrictions.
Now why don't you go back to talking about the economics of health care reform as if you know the first thing about the subject. What a tool you are.
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
More of me making you look like the pathetic fool you are, that's about it.
Your avatar has no arms!He lives on a "all sports lake" lol
beat that
natrone23
Well-Known Member
You think he rolled that fatty with his feet?
No, like the Havana girls roll cigars. Between their thighs.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
He lives on a "all sports lake" lol
beat that
"All sports", eh? Sounds communist if you ask me. Shouldn't some sports be more respected than other, lesser sports? Some sports have been working hard for decades to get where they are, damnit! Why do these new sports think they can come in and take away from the old sports for their own gain?
It's socialism, I tell you. "All sports are created equal".... makes me sick! Sick!
Yanno what's funny is that RickWhite says he has a degree in molecular biology, but in another thread he says he never got a degree and owns a business that pays its workers $12 an hour, which sounds like construction work to me. Do you need a degree in molecular biology to be a building contractor? LOL!
londonfog
Well-Known Member
You can be anything you want on the internet....Hell most Republicans are now independents..why....don't ask why its the internet..
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
If I were a Republican I'd try to distance myself from them, too. "Independent" doesn't really mean much. "Independent" republicans will still vote for a republican candidate (doesn't sound too independent to me...) just as "independent" democrats (i.e. "progressives") vote for democratic candidates.
Libertarian is just a fancy new way to describe a conservative republican (because the ones calling themselves conservative have clearly been off their meds for too long, and nobody really wants to be associated with them anymore), and "Progressive" is just a fancy new word for "liberal", because the self-proclaimed "liberals" are really anything but.
I'm interested to see where we'll be in 10 or 15 years with this shift.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
You might want to check your definitions. You clearly have a misconception as to what a libertarian is.
A true libertarian, is more grounded in morality and a consistent philosophy as opposed to a run of the mill conservative or a liberal which are both often inconsistent.
For instance a typical conservative platform might be for "small government", low taxes etc. yet they often are against lifting the pot prohibition. It is a contradiction to be for small government and still think people shouldn't own their bodies.
A typical liberal approach might be supportive of pot legalization, yet they
often think while we should own our bodies, (regarding pot anyway) we shouldn't own our wallets and it is acceptable to apply government force to extract MY money for YOUR ideas.
Libertarians are for small government and believe YOU own your body AND your wallet. They believe Government force should be limited to preventing aggregius acts against others, real crimes with victims, not the imagined crimes liberals and conservatives
use government to pursue when their is no victim. Crimes against the state for instance.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Nope. I know exactly what a libertarian is, thank you.
There are different schools of libertarianism. What we have here in the US are Libertarian conservatives. In essence, they are what the fiscal and social conservatives USED to be, before they swallowed the crazy pill that sent a great number of self-described "republicans" running for their lives. The only real differences between libertarians and social conservative counterparts is they typically favor gay rights, drug law reform, and aren't as anti-abortion as the social conservatives.
Every developed nation on earth has taxes, dude. If you don't like it, I think there's a shuttle on its way to the moon this evening.