Entitlement mentality

doobnVA · Oct 13, 2009

maxamus1 said:
dude do you have kids is school? understand NCLB ha. we see the effects of it every day, that's why our kids are so F in dumb now. but your right it's doing it's job. as far as no lies being taught to our kids, that's why our kids believe that the US started slavery. our kids are told half truths and forced to think a certain way, so the government can control of how much they actually know. also if NCLB did so well why are we one of the dumbest country's? BTW i have had more then one teacher tell me they can't tell the hole truth about the things they teach for multiple reasons, but i know you have an answer for that to don't ya.

NCLB equates to "teaching to the test". It also serves as motivation for manipulation of test results. Because of NCLB, there is a significant focus on English and Mathematics, which leaves little time for other subjects. Schools are focusing on these things and leaving out a great deal of science instruction (My daughter has science class every other week. this is unacceptable), social studies, physical eduction, art, music, etc.

Instead of offering a broad, inclusive curriculum, schools offer narrow, math and english based curriculums. A big chunk of time at the beginning of the year is spent reviewing material from the previous year, and a big chunk of time at the end of the year is spent reviewing that year's material in order to prepare students for these tests. That leaves a much smaller chunk of time actually spent learning NEW material.

Financial incentives are awarded to schools who meet the criteria for adequate yearly progress, and schools who do not meet AYP are penalized. How does this make any sense? The schools that are underperforming should get MORE assistance, in order to improve their performance, should they not?

Green Cross · Oct 13, 2009

CrackerJax said:
No one is stopping anyone from applying for jobs. Let the BEST qualified get the job. Period at the end of that sentence.

If there wasn't a need for foreign talent, they wouldn't be coming over halfway from around the world. Fact is, despite the feelings of the matter, they are better educated and their intelligence, dedication, and talent helps the USA overall.

Let the best qualified do the job. You want that high science job.... get a quality education.

The problem is foreign labor is being imported (by lobbyists who push for changes in the labor and immigration laws) to provide the corporation, with more cheap labor!

This helps the companies balance sheet, but it lowers wages and standard of living for most indigenous Americans.

The politicians are more concerned with those corporate interests... because that's where most their campaign money comes from. Just follow the money trial.
:roll:

The same thing goes for Nationalized health care, which seeks to leave 40 million people without health insurance. For the Dems, this is more about Unions going broke because of health-care costs. Look at who is demanding (lobbying) for this, and even writing the Bill; the insurance companies who want my money. I have a gesture for them :finger:

When washington politicians start working for the average person again I'll have faith in government again, but it's pretty clear that the owe their loyalty to American corporations, and even foreign governments.

Hollander · Oct 13, 2009

I DO have a child. My child currently tests in the top 1 percent of the nation. However, every interim report that comes home talks about the lack of "focus" my child has. Mind you, my child is also a straight A student. There is not enough funding(even though I reside in an upper middle class area)for gifted programs. It has been a constant battle. My child is not a.d.d. nor suffers from any other learning problems. At some point you must be your child's advocate and take charge of the situation. No child gets left behind in our case also means that there are no possibilities of children such as mine moving ahead. There are no special programs or extra challenging work to aid these children. They get in trouble for distracting others, yet technically they are doing exactly what is asked of them. In turn, these bright children are often in trouble either from their parents for the lack of focus notes or from their teachers for not paying attention. I am quite liberal in most senses. I was born in this country but raised in one with a Social government (more liberal than one can imagine). I don't think that it's just about our edu system, I am a product of a retired educator, I do think that it may perhaps go back to entitlement. Parents think their kids are never wrong or naughty or disrespectful. I on the other hand am fully aware and live in reality that my kid is going to make mistakes and poor choices at times. I will not blame politics, it's a waste of energy. I WILL, however, take charge of my child's education and future and advocate for bettering the education of my kid. If you don't like something, change how you approach it. Bottom line for me is, it starts with parents and grown-ups living in todays times. If I am unhappy with a situation that I am directly involved in, shame on me for staying in that situation. I have the power to change it. I will always have choices because I will make a path where I am able to choose. If I get knocked down, only I can be blamed for staying down. No one can make us feel powerless or inferior but ourselves. Choose your path, friends.....

redivider · Oct 13, 2009

cracker jax believes that private industry will do the right thing.

it's called protecting local workers. it's the governments duty to pass legislation that makes it very attractive to operate within your own borders, and to hire local workers.

it's responsible government. CJ doesn't see that.

he believes that competition is good, yeah, it's good for the shareholders. that term is widely used so you believe millions of people are benefiting. actually, most companies have CEO's and shit that own more than 40% of the company, with the other officers owning 20-30%... the other 10% is publicly traded....

the government made it easier for companies to leave the US (outsourcing), so the companies are doing great, they are putting out record numbers, the country's GDP is through the roof, but since all but the home office is located elsewhere, none of that actual benefit is going to the local people. it's called FUNNEL UP economics. republicans love love LOOOVE it....

until it's them on the chopping block because their job is moving to El Salvador or the Dominican Republic, then they blame Obama....

CrackerJax · Oct 13, 2009

Green Cross said:
The problem is foreign labor is being imported (by lobbyists who push for changes in the labor and immigration laws) to provide the corporation, with more cheap labor!

This helps the companies balance sheet, but it lowers wages and standard of living for most indigenous Americans.

The politicians are more concerned with those corporate interests... because that's where most their campaign money comes from. Just follow the money trial.

The same thing goes for Nationalized health care, which seeks to leave 40 million people without health insurance. For the Dems, this is more about Unions going broke because of health-care costs. Look at who is demanding (lobbying) for this, and even writing the Bill; the insurance companies who want my money. I have a gesture for them

When washington politicians start working for the average person again I'll have faith in government again, but it's pretty clear that the owe their loyalty to American corporations, and even foreign governments.

You're talking about Mexican immigration, I'm talking about Indian and Japanese mathematicians and scientists.

I've just gone on for 2 posts now talking about the high end science jobs needing to be filled by foreigners because our education system is so unionized and banal, and you think I'm talking about cheap labor?????????????

Iron Lion Zion · Oct 14, 2009

RickWhite said:
WTF? Let me help you understand NCLB.

The purpose of NCLB is to ensure that students reach a minimum standard and are not simply passed along through the system. They do this by making all students pass a proficiency exam. This includes proficiency in math and English and what not. There are no "lies" taught to the children except what teachers who don't know squat opine on - something a public servant has no business doing in the first place.

The reason teachers hate NCLB is because they have limited control over the student's success and don't believe the system is fair.

But the main point is that NCLB was created to solve the problem of poorly performing teachers, not to encourage it.

Something else to add. In my state, Texas, we have the top 10% rule. If you are in the top 10% of your class (Texas residents) you are automatically accepted into any state school here. This means they accept sub-par students.
Ex: My cousin is a dumbass. However, she goes lives in a tiny town and attended a very small school. She finished #3 out of like 35 people. Therefore she is top 10%. My friend on the other hand attended the best private school in our "Big City." The class size was around 250 and basically everyone in the top 50-60 get into very good schools and are extremely intelligent. He finished around number 40, with a very good GPA. However, he was denied entrance into the state school that he wanted to attend. Side Note: He eventually transferred in because his GPA was good at the school he went to and a good chunk of students from small rural towns/other places with inferior standards, including my cousin, transferred to junior colleges because they couldn't handle the curriculum at the big state school.

It should be the other way around - the inferior students work their way into a better school, not the obviously more capable student.

Iron Lion Zion · Oct 14, 2009

CrackerJax said:
You're talking about Mexican immigration, I'm talking about Indian and Japanese mathematicians and scientists.

I've just gone on for 2 posts now talking about the high end science jobs needing to be filled by foreigners because our education system is so unionized and banal, and you think I'm talking about cheap labor?????????????

It's not the immigrating foreigners that are conquering the sciences. It's their children. Trust me, after spending 4 years in a pre-professional program I am very accustomed to hearing "Patel, Singh, Reddy, Lee, Wang, Chang" on the first day of classes. I am not saying it is a bad thing - those kids have the best study habits in the world and work their asses off to get into medicine. However, the vast majority of them have the personality of a textbook and refuse to hang out with people who do not share their heritage. I would go psycho if I stressed and studied as much as they do - definitely can be attributed to the work ethic instilled in them by their parents. Which to be honest, is another contributor to sub-par American education - the participation and encouragement of a child's education by their parents and often times parent (no s).

CrackerJax · Oct 14, 2009

Yes, those parents coming from a part of the world steeped with third world problems are not spoiled by the entitlement mentality Americans have.

But more than that....the fact that we have to import talent for the top science fields is appalling.

Our education system is an embarrassment.

maxamus1 · Oct 14, 2009

doobnVA said:
NCLB equates to "teaching to the test". It also serves as motivation for manipulation of test results. Because of NCLB, there is a significant focus on English and Mathematics, which leaves little time for other subjects. Schools are focusing on these things and leaving out a great deal of science instruction (My daughter has science class every other week. this is unacceptable), social studies, physical eduction, art, music, etc.

Instead of offering a broad, inclusive curriculum, schools offer narrow, math and english based curriculums. A big chunk of time at the beginning of the year is spent reviewing material from the previous year, and a big chunk of time at the end of the year is spent reviewing that year's material in order to prepare students for these tests. That leaves a much smaller chunk of time actually spent learning NEW material.

Financial incentives are awarded to schools who meet the criteria for adequate yearly progress, and schools who do not meet AYP are penalized. How does this make any sense? The schools that are underperforming should get MORE assistance, in order to improve their performance, should they not?

my oldest son is in second grade. already this year i have had to have a conference with his teacher over these state given test. they would give multiple answar questions with more than one right answer. if you didn't give the answer they wanted it would be marked wrong. this is forcing our children to think in one direction. tell me what dose that sound like to you?

maxamus1 · Oct 14, 2009

Hollander said:
I DO have a child. My child currently tests in the top 1 percent of the nation. However, every interim report that comes home talks about the lack of "focus" my child has. Mind you, my child is also a straight A student. There is not enough funding(even though I reside in an upper middle class area)for gifted programs. It has been a constant battle. My child is not a.d.d. nor suffers from any other learning problems. At some point you must be your child's advocate and take charge of the situation. No child gets left behind in our case also means that there are no possibilities of children such as mine moving ahead. There are no special programs or extra challenging work to aid these children. They get in trouble for distracting others, yet technically they are doing exactly what is asked of them. In turn, these bright children are often in trouble either from their parents for the lack of focus notes or from their teachers for not paying attention. I am quite liberal in most senses. I was born in this country but raised in one with a Social government (more liberal than one can imagine). I don't think that it's just about our edu system, I am a product of a retired educator, I do think that it may perhaps go back to entitlement. Parents think their kids are never wrong or naughty or disrespectful. I on the other hand am fully aware and live in reality that my kid is going to make mistakes and poor choices at times. I will not blame politics, it's a waste of energy. I WILL, however, take charge of my child's education and future and advocate for bettering the education of my kid. If you don't like something, change how you approach it. Bottom line for me is, it starts with parents and grown-ups living in todays times. If I am unhappy with a situation that I am directly involved in, shame on me for staying in that situation. I have the power to change it. I will always have choices because I will make a path where I am able to choose. If I get knocked down, only I can be blamed for staying down. No one can make us feel powerless or inferior but ourselves. Choose your path, friends.....

i agree with some of what you say. it is up to the parents to get their children the best education they can. as like you i know my kids make bad decisions a lot. i also tell my kids to think for themselves and come up with their own decisions. this seems to create problems at school for having a different opinion. so yes the schools have something to do with the problem.

CrackerJax · Oct 14, 2009

The teachers always blame the parents. The parents always blame the teachers.

Kids spend far more time at school than at home with their parents, even counting weekends.
But parents naturally have more influence over the child even though the actual exposure is less.

It's a push statistically, but each case is an individual situation. There are so many variables in the parents and the schools.

But if change is needed it has to be in the school, not the home. Outside of child abuse, no state/fed authority has the right to dictate parenting to a citizen.
Not so with the Board of education which is paid for by the citizens and should be held 100% accountable to them.

Them that pay the bill, should have the say.

Wavels · Oct 14, 2009

IMO the teachers unions themselves are an example of an entitlement mentality run amok.

The union exists and functions primarily to take care of teachers regardless of whether they (teachers) are good or totally inept.
The unions appear to expend far more energy and effort in promoting the welfare of the teachers and the students are merely a secondary consideration.
The union members feel they are entitled to protection and insulation from the imposition of any qualitative measurements of actual performance.
They despise any intrusion of true competition which may actually help the students (charter schools or home schooling).

Teachers unions did not exist until the early 1960s...are we better off today after over forty years of teacher coddling nationwide?
I think not!

CrackerJax · Oct 14, 2009

I don't think any taxpayer based employment should be unionized. period.

In a way, unions interfere with the interaction of the citizen and the respective union workers in XXX field.

Unions are there to protect the workers (uhh that's the BS they sell anyways) from the employer.
But with a govt. employee, that's not a real business in operation. If you work for the govt. ur not in business, you are outside of it.
The taxpayer should not be impeded from dealing directly with those receiving tax dollars in exchange for a service.
Unions impede the taxpayer..... ban them all. The taxpayer isn't EXXON, or FORD....they shouold not be insulated from our control.

robert 14617 · Oct 14, 2009

Hey, to RIU Admin, I got a question..perfect example

CrackerJax · Oct 14, 2009

Holey Moley... it's an epidemic....

see where it says elite.... there's ur recognition. altho I did have a personal medal made up and I wear it whenever I post...just for me.

Wavels · Oct 14, 2009

CrackerJax said:
I don't think any taxpayer based employment should be unionized. period.

So true...and the single largest growth of union enrollment is in the government sector.
This is not helpful to our nation.

Parasitic and destructive.

doobnVA · Oct 14, 2009

CrackerJax said:
The teachers always blame the parents. The parents always blame the teachers.

Kids spend far more time at school than at home with their parents, even counting weekends.
But parents naturally have more influence over the child even though the actual exposure is less.

It's a push statistically, but each case is an individual situation. There are so many variables in the parents and the schools.

But if change is needed it has to be in the school, not the home. Outside of child abuse, no state/fed authority has the right to dictate parenting to a citizen.
Not so with the Board of education which is paid for by the citizens and should be held 100% accountable to them.

Them that pay the bill, should have the say.

Really? How did you come up with that conclusion?

6 hour school days X 180 = 1080 hours

185 non-school days X 24 hours in a day= 4440 hours

Even if we remove the time spent sleeping, we still end up with over 2500 hours spent at home versus 1080 hours spent at school.

:confused:

CrackerJax · Oct 14, 2009

Wavels said:
So true...and the single largest growth of union enrollment is in the government sector.
This is not helpful to our nation.

Parasitic and destructive.

exactly true.... and the fastest growing union in the country right now are govt. employees.

Then they sit around telling us how they are going to save us money... :roll:

Only the apathetic and misinformed are fooled. Idiots too...can't forget them, some aren't capable of learning (shhh that's a secret to them).....

doobnVA · Oct 14, 2009

maxamus1 said:
my oldest son is in second grade. already this year i have had to have a conference with his teacher over these state given test. they would give multiple answar questions with more than one right answer. if you didn't give the answer they wanted it would be marked wrong. this is forcing our children to think in one direction. tell me what dose that sound like to you?

sounds like crap to me. Trust me, I'm with you on the NCLB thing. I think it SUCKS. Where I live, it's DOUBLY sucky, because of our state policies that have arisen out of NCLB.

Here, though, the standardized tests don't start until 3rd grade but the "teaching to the test" starts in KINDERGARTEN.

I seem to recall having textbooks in second grade, yet my daughter has none. Not one single textbook. The kids are taught using "Standards of Learning" worksheets but there is no textbook to reinforce the lessons or offer any instruction other than what's on these tests.

I'm trying to figure out how (or if) I can scrape together enough money for private school next year if we aren't lucky enough to "win" the charter school "lottery".

maxamus1 · Oct 14, 2009

i have thought of home school and private just dont know which one yet. then again they government is trying to get rid of the private schools around here so i may not have a choice in the matter.

Entitlement mentality

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