DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
sorry guys, got busy this weekend (it was sunny this weekend which doesn't happen much here) so no air stone test. I WILL be doing it this evening though. :)

Wish I had a fish tank to take a picture of the different bubbles. Also, I really wanted to geek out and measure the airflow but the only way I could think of to do this was to bubble air into an inverted container filled with water, or fill up something like a balloon and then measure the displacement by dunking it in a graduated bucket. Then again, I was stoned when I was thinking of all this shit and I don't get high that much these days so I'll probably stick to the game plan :) I was even scratching out statistics and trying to decide if a one tailed or two tailed ANOVA test would be appropriate to determine if the differences in the DO results were statistically different from each other cause I wanted to generate a P value for each stone based on the average DO rates. The phone rang, and it snapped me out of it so I just went and played battlefield 2. :)

I do have this issue though.....

I'm using a 120l/m pump and a 12 outlet manifold. Here is the deal though... airflow to each stone will differ based on the back pressure and the fact that I am using a non-pressure regulated manifold. Ergo.. If the micropore stone is resisting airflow..then that airflow will go to another stone. If I closed all the ports and tested one stone at a time, I would be pushing such a massive amount of air through the stones that DO rates would be at their maximum based on the temp of water and its physical ability to hold O.
 
SHABOOGY1

SHABOOGY1

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
sorry guys, got busy this weekend (it was sunny this weekend which doesn't happen much here) so no air stone test. I WILL be doing it this evening though. :)

Wish I had a fish tank to take a picture of the different bubbles. Also, I really wanted to geek out and measure the airflow but the only way I could think of to do this was to bubble air into an inverted container filled with water, or fill up something like a balloon and then measure the displacement by dunking it in a graduated bucket. Then again, I was stoned when I was thinking of all this shit and I don't get high that much these days so I'll probably stick to the game plan :) I was even scratching out statistics and trying to decide if a one tailed or two tailed ANOVA test would be appropriate to determine if the differences in the DO results were statistically different from each other cause I wanted to generate a P value for each stone based on the average DO rates. The phone rang, and it snapped me out of it so I just went and played battlefield 2. :)

I do have this issue though.....

I'm using a 120l/m pump and a 12 outlet manifold. Here is the deal though... airflow to each stone will differ based on the back pressure and the fact that I am using a non-pressure regulated manifold. Ergo.. If the micropore stone is resisting airflow..then that airflow will go to another stone. If I closed all the ports and tested one stone at a time, I would be pushing such a massive amount of air through the stones that DO rates would be at their maximum based on the temp of water and its physical ability to hold O.
Click to expand...
are conducting this in your res for your plants or in a seperate container???
 
SHABOOGY1

SHABOOGY1

Well-Known Member
I was asking because if he uses a separate container,,, then maybe he can boost the temps to lets say 90 degrees and measure the DO of every airstone(individually) using that big ass pump he has... Im high so dont mind me,,, took me 15 mins to write this and an hour to think it up!!!
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
6 separate containers. measurements taken at a couple different temperatures but certainly not at 90 cause if your rez is 90 degrees you deserve to be kicked in the balls, not given advice. :0
 
Mrfootball420

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
sorry guys, got busy this weekend (it was sunny this weekend which doesn't happen much here) so no air stone test. I WILL be doing it this evening though. :)

Wish I had a fish tank to take a picture of the different bubbles. Also, I really wanted to geek out and measure the airflow but the only way I could think of to do this was to bubble air into an inverted container filled with water, or fill up something like a balloon and then measure the displacement by dunking it in a graduated bucket. Then again, I was stoned when I was thinking of all this shit and I don't get high that much these days so I'll probably stick to the game plan :) I was even scratching out statistics and trying to decide if a one tailed or two tailed ANOVA test would be appropriate to determine if the differences in the DO results were statistically different from each other cause I wanted to generate a P value for each stone based on the average DO rates. The phone rang, and it snapped me out of it so I just went and played battlefield 2. :)

I do have this issue though.....

I'm using a 120l/m pump and a 12 outlet manifold. Here is the deal though... airflow to each stone will differ based on the back pressure and the fact that I am using a non-pressure regulated manifold. Ergo.. If the micropore stone is resisting airflow..then that airflow will go to another stone. If I closed all the ports and tested one stone at a time, I would be pushing such a massive amount of air through the stones that DO rates would be at their maximum based on the temp of water and its physical ability to hold O.
Click to expand...
as long as you have a big enough pump that is dialed in it should pressurize the entire system and dispense air evenly. your are just going to have to play with it and get it dialed in which could prove tricky and take time. maybe you could test it both ways. test it hooked upto all the diffusers and then just one diffuser with full air and see what kind of difference it makes.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hey guys LF's questions lead me to do some research which taught me a thing or two. I suggest everyone read this link which talks about a plant's roots use of oxygen.

Why do roots use oxygen? Because they can not perform photosynthesis. They oxidize compounds to make energy, which is then used by the canopy. The more oxygen available the better they can perform their function, and no matter how much DO you have in the water, you are only supplying about 1-2% of the roots total needs. The rest has to come from exposure to air. So how much air is enough or too much? Studies have shown that in atomized aeroponic systems roots can have as little as one second of total exposure to nute solution out of every 60 and still grow with extreme vigor. So it seems that in a DWC it is true; the more bubbles making contact with roots, the better.
 
SHABOOGY1

SHABOOGY1

Well-Known Member
HOLY SHIZZNIT!!! I took a look into my veg system(stinkbuddy's aero setup) and my roots are back in business!!! Actually,,, they're a thousand times better looking than any of my root systems have ever been... WTF!!! THE ROOTS ARE A HELL OF ALOT THICKER AND WHITER!!! Seriously,,, my girls were looking like the plant version of "the night of the living dead" and now im starting to see some vegetative growth,,, a little slow but i expect that being they were 2 beeps away from flatline... I have a confession to make though;;; I didnt follow the complete directions of cleaning the whole system out and then reapplying nutes along with adding the tea yadda-yadda-yadda... I brewed that shit up and dumped it in... At that time i didnt recieve my myco yet so i took Heisenberg's advice and started the brew with out it cause they were desperately in need of a phukan miracle... so instead of the recommended gallon,,, i added almost two and now my hoes are making a comeback!!! I'll say in 2 weeks they'll be ready for the "strip" with an addition of "recruiting" more bitches for the stable!!! Heisenberg,,, I cant THANK YOU enough!!!
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
BendBrewer said:
I checked out a different local hydro store over the weekend and the owner is a major Tea Head. He makes and packages a fine powdered Tea "Starter" or booster. Kelp, some fish, molasses, spirulina and yeast. (might be missing something) I was just picking up some Ancient Forest but man did we get on the subject of making Tea and this guy loves the topic. He just uses the AF mixed with some rich local compost and the Tea Starter. Told him it sounded real interesting but I had a recipe and the ingredients for it, might think about his Starter down the road. He says, "Here, just take it. You'll love it." Dude kicked me down a $20 bag of this stuff. I turned back and bought him out of 4" air stones.

Question, I am running this in RDWC. This seemed to surprise him that I use an unfiltered tea in a recirculating system. Does anyone see any negative affects of using these alternative ingredients?

He claims to get 1 billion microbes per tablespoon in 36 hours. The stuff foams like nuts. You can just make out the level of the Tea at about the 3 gallon mark.

View attachment 1747194
Click to expand...
It sounds like this guy is making a traditional tea meant to aid in decomposition. For our purposes we do not care about decomposition, nitrogen fixing, iron oxidization, ect. It's fine to add them if you want, the mycogrow soluble has many, but it isn't necessary. These microbes die off in a matter of hours or days while only the microbes fed by the rhizoplane remain. When you use the starter, cut the molasses in half, as the 'greens' offer a food source. Using his starter your tea is likely to have more active fungi, as the kelp gives the fungi a place to germinate.

SHABOOGY1 said:
HOLY SHIZZNIT!!! I took a look into my veg system(stinkbuddy's aero setup) and my roots are back in business!!! Actually,,, they're a thousand times better looking than any of my root systems have ever been... WTF!!! THE ROOTS ARE A HELL OF ALOT THICKER AND WHITER!!! Seriously,,, my girls were looking like the plant version of "the night of the living dead" and now im starting to see some vegetative growth,,, a little slow but i expect that being they were 2 beeps away from flatline... I have a confession to make though;;; I didnt follow the complete directions of cleaning the whole system out and then reapplying nutes along with adding the tea yadda-yadda-yadda... I brewed that shit up and dumped it in... At that time i didnt recieve my myco yet so i took Heisenberg's advice and started the brew with out it cause they were desperately in need of a phukan miracle... so instead of the recommended gallon,,, i added almost two and now my hoes are making a comeback!!! I'll say in 2 weeks they'll be ready for the "strip" with an addition of "recruiting" more bitches for the stable!!! Heisenberg,,, I cant THANK YOU enough!!!
Click to expand...
Glad things turned around for you. Making the tea is like baking a cake, people change the recipe to suit them and the results can still turn out to be just fine. We recommend sterilizing first because that is the proper way to rid slime, but as you see in some cases it isn't necessary.
 
F

fallinprince

Active Member
I know it adds quite a bit to the cost but do you think "Floralicious plus" would be a better in the bucket feed? I seem to still have a problem with my roots they were big and strong for 3 weeks then suddenly they all browned up really good and are looking like it has very little new growth. no noticeable slime. but veg growth has all but stopped... I even stopped brewing tea unless i could use it all at once (or within 4 days from starting the brew)... Currently im just using AF and Great white i was looking into getting some aquashield but im not sure if i need it

Im HOPING it is a lack of air problem. So i bought the same pump as tyler durden was talking about (which will provide roughly 4 times the air (used on ebay for 35$)).
"Sunleaves" DuraPump Hydroponic Air Pump 950 GAL/HR (59.9L/min) replaces
"Active Air" Air Pump with 4 Outlets - 15L/Min (237.75 gph)
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
fallinprince said:
I know it adds quite a bit to the cost but do you think "Floralicious plus" would be a better in the bucket feed? I seem to still have a problem with my roots they were big and strong for 3 weeks then suddenly they all browned up really good and are looking like it has very little new growth. no noticeable slime. but veg growth has all but stopped... I even stopped brewing tea unless i could use it all at once (or within 4 days from starting the brew)... Currently im just using AF and Great white i was looking into getting some aquashield but im not sure if i need it

Im HOPING it is a lack of air problem. So i bought the same pump as tyler durden was talking about (which will provide roughly 4 times the air (used on ebay for 35$)).
"Sunleaves" DuraPump Hydroponic Air Pump 950 GAL/HR (59.9L/min) replaces
"Active Air" Air Pump with 4 Outlets - 15L/Min (237.75 gph)
Click to expand...
You don't need the aquashield, it will be redundant. If you have inadequate aeration there its nothing that will keep you from root rot, not to mention the roots can't perform their energy gathering duties. Here is a new pump for the same price.
 
D

disposition84

Well-Known Member
Would the tea work well in an NFT system where the roots are completely exposed to oxygen
when not being watered?

I realize you target this towards DWC and I'm wondering if the nutes passing over the
roots is enough to see benefits or if you only see the benefits when the roots are submerged 24/7.

Thanks
 
F

fallinprince

Active Member
disposition it doesn't matter what type of system you use this in. It will still provide an effect.(stronger effect the closer to dirt you go).. except systems that have sprayers. In those id recommend filtering very well or your very likely to clog
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
Disposition,

You could use the tea in your system but would probably have to brew it a bit differently. Rather than try to filter down the original recipe, if you used ingredients in your tea that were largely water soluble, you could still reap some of the benefits of these fungi/bacteria and avoid clogs. Mycogrow Soluble and Aquashield off the top of my head. There are also liquid worm castings available if I'm not mistaken. Heisenberg has said that the tea is great even in an ebb/flow setup, so the extra root exposure to air shouldn't be a problem for you. Do you run your NFT pump 24/7? Try it out... cheers and good luck

mr.bond
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
In a system where roots are in oxygen most of the time mycos will actually do better because they are able to multiply. They are not aquatic and although they will germinate and grow in water, they will not fruit and spread spores. I would def use tea in an NFT myself.

For systems with sprayers I recommend an inoculation which only contains mycos. Mycos will not germinate until they make contact with roots, so they should not cause a biofilm which will clog sprayers. Since mycos do not multiply or even germinate in the tea, and are fed by the roots, this would be one case where brewing a tea is not helpful. I have heard mycos in an aero can sometimes cause excessive root hairs, which can be counterproductive, so I am not sure how helpful they would be. Aero is the furthest thing from soil, which is where the microbes shine.
 
D

disposition84

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies.

Just built the system last night for my moms to replace an aero with chiller system, wasn't sure about how long
to run the pumps but I figured I'd play around with timings similar to aero like a 1on 4off schedule. Not worried
about the water soluble part as the feed lines are all 1/2" black vinyl.

I do run an aero system in my flower room and am considering taking the spray heads off and converting it to a
vertical NFT system, but the feed lines are all 1/4" and could have a clog issue. Gonna give it a try and well see
how things go, though I'm also considering going back to dwc trees.
 
SHABOOGY1

SHABOOGY1

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
In a system where roots are in oxygen most of the time mycos will actually do better because they are able to multiply. They are not aquatic and although they will germinate and grow in water, they will not fruit and spread spores. I would def use tea in an NFT myself.

For systems with sprayers I recommend an inoculation which only contains mycos. Mycos will not germinate until they make contact with roots, so they should not cause a biofilm which will clog sprayers. Since mycos do not multiply or even germinate in the tea, and are fed by the roots, this would be one case where brewing a tea is not helpful. I have heard mycos in an aero can sometimes cause excessive root hairs, which can be counterproductive, so I am not sure how helpful they would be. Aero is the furthest thing from soil, which is where the microbes shine.
Click to expand...

Why would it be counterproductive to have excessive root hairs??? I was under the assumption that more root hairs provided better nutrient uptake which in return promotes better overall growth... Im confused now,,, please enlighten me... And also,,, how would an aero grower introduce the MYCO if you dont recommend brewing it??? I must of missed something cause im lost...
 
mr.bond

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
SHABOOGY1 said:
Why would it be counterproductive to have excessive root hairs??? I was under the assumption that more root hairs provided better nutrient uptake which in return promotes better overall growth... Im confused now,,, please enlighten me... And also,,, how would an aero grower introduce the MYCO if you dont recommend brewing it??? I must of missed something cause im lost...
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing... I had heard that the excessive root hairs was pretty much the goal of true aeroponics, achieving that explosive root mass. As for inoculating them, an aero grower could introduce myco through a root drench or solution dip if it is a soluble form of myco. Would probably want to do it early on in the veg phase to avoid damage to already-developed masses of thin root hairs.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Root hairs are a problem ONLY if the plant is making excessive hairs at the expense of lateral root growth. This presents as a short squat root ball that appears stunted, although it's white and healthy. Lateral root growth is important for sustained canopy growth and fruit production. Ideally the roots will explode with growth but the growth will be balanced. This is not something you have to be concerned with in DWC. Just as slime is a problem that is pretty much unique to DWC, excessive root hairs are a problem that is mostly specific to aeroponics.

To introduce mycos I would just inoculate some water and spray them on roots with a plant mister. I would inoculate early and then periodically throughout the grow. If I were not concerned about clogging, I would want to include more than just mycos, so I would at that point brew the tea and add it to the res. Remember, mycorrhizas are only one part of the tea.
 
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