Do you do 10-15% runoff with organics?

Hello all,
title says it all but Its a question I have always wondered when people just use plain water throughout the entire grow. Do you still water untill you get a good 10-15% runoff or is this going to leach out the amendements/nutrients too fast from the media therefore starving the plant.
thanks

No need for runoff with organics like with salts.

1littlesoldier1 said:

Hello all,
title says it all but Its a question I have always wondered when people just use plain water throughout the entire grow. Do you still water untill you get a good 10-15% runoff or is this going to leach out the amendements/nutrients too fast from the media therefore starving the plant.
thanks

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As said above, no, but are you using bottled organic nutrients, or dry amendments?

Don't do it. Problems will surely follow. Try picking up the pots and sense their weight. Now water slowly watching for drainage. At the first sign of drainage, stop and pick up the pot again. this will be the approximate weight you want to have for that sized pot and plant!

Look at the SIP thread.You'll thank me later.

Second the SIPs recommendation. For organic it is the way to go.

Agreed. Sip for the win!

just use a pint measuring jug, water till it just starts to come out the bottom of the pot. have the pot in a shallow dish, it will suck up some if not all of the runoff water. then just look at the amount used and weigh the pot.
pot weight will stay with you, whilst the amount of water might change depending on your soil and its growing condition.
not seen this SIP page, but sounds like it getting the right thumbs up from the right people

My first run in a sip....

go go kid said:

just use a pint measuring jug, water till it just starts to come out the bottom of the pot. have the pot in a shallow dish, it will suck up some if not all of the runoff water. then just look at the amount used and weigh the pot.
pot weight will stay with you, whilst the amount of water might change depending on your soil and its growing condition.
not seen this SIP page, but sounds like it getting the right thumbs up from the right people

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Thx for all the great info. Reason im asking is because i would like to try dry amendments next round but i have quite a few plants and a basic auto watering system and most plants don’t drink as much as others so i would get a lot of runoff on some and a little on others. So i guess I won’t be able to do organics then because some plants will starve

1littlesoldier1 said:

Thx for all the great info. Reason im asking is because i would like to try dry amendments next round but i have quite a few plants and a basic auto watering system and most plants don’t drink as much as others so i would get a lot of runoff on some and a little on others. So i guess I won’t be able to do organics then because some plants will starve

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No runoff if you're using dry amendments. You can use your auto water. Get ball valves so you can adjust flow individually to all containers.

1littlesoldier1 said:

Thx for all the great info. Reason im asking is because i would like to try dry amendments next round but i have quite a few plants and a basic auto watering system and most plants don’t drink as much as others so i would get a lot of runoff on some and a little on others. So i guess I won’t be able to do organics then because some plants will starve

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With or without SIPs, the best way to water with organics is not all at once.

You water just enough to saturate the top layer of the soil of each pot. By the time you've finished doing this with each pot, the water will have saturated enough for you to complete your watering.

It is at this point that you apply your amendments, and finish watering.

For example, say your pot requires 1 gallon of water. Begin by watering 1/3 of a gallon of water at a time, with each plant. Then, the next 1/3 gallon per plant. Then repeat one last time. This ensures that the water has enough time to fully seep into the substrate, while preventing runoff. Most of us grow in those fabric pots, so it is easy to have excess runoff if you don't water in this manner.

Or, use SIPs.

Of course, when you're outdoors and your plants are in the ground, all of the above goes right out the window because the water will always follow the path of least resistance and form a "pool" underneath your root zone. This is why plants in the ground do best; they're difficult to overwater, while simultaneously requiring less watering as a result of the "pool" of water formed underneath the root zone that your plants can freely drink from as needed.

Regards.

kratos015 said:

With or without SIPs, the best way to water with organics is not all at once.

You water just enough to saturate the top layer of the soil of each pot. By the time you've finished doing this with each pot, the water will have saturated enough for you to complete your watering.

It is at this point that you apply your amendments, and finish watering.

For example, say your pot requires 1 gallon of water. Begin by watering 1/3 of a gallon of water at a time, with each plant. Then, the next 1/3 gallon per plant. Then repeat one last time. This ensures that the water has enough time to fully seep into the substrate, while preventing runoff. Most of us grow in those fabric pots, so it is easy to have excess runoff if you don't water in this manner.

Or, use SIPs.

Of course, when you're outdoors and your plants are in the ground, all of the above goes right out the window because the water will always follow the path of least resistance and form a "pool" underneath your root zone. This is why plants in the ground do best; they're difficult to overwater, while simultaneously requiring less watering as a result of the "pool" of water formed underneath the root zone that your plants can freely drink from as needed.

Regards.

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I always add the top dressing before watering. Is it important to get it moist first?

PadawanWarrior said:

I always add the top dressing before watering. Is it important to get it moist first?

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I've always done the same. I used a pump sprayer though. It makes the waterings more even, and I've never had a problem spraying it all at once. I never got pooling at the surface, or runoff. I also used yucca every watering so my soil stayed pretty well conditioned.

Hollatchaboy said:

I've always done the same. I used a pump sprayer though. It makes the waterings more even, and I've never had a problem spraying it all at once. I never got pooling at the surface, or runoff. I also used yucca every watering so my soil stayed pretty well conditioned.

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Ya my soil isn't hydrophobic either. Slow watering definitely helps. And I use yucca too if the soil starts becoming hydrophobic. But I don't have to use it much though. kratos always has good info. I read all his posts that I see.

PadawanWarrior said:

Ya my soil isn't hydrophobic either. Slow watering definitely helps. And I use yucca too if the soil starts becoming hydrophobic. But I don't have to use it much though. kratos always has good info. I read all his posts that I see.

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I don't use a lot. Maybe a 1/4 tsp. per gallon.

Yea I've gotten good tips from Kratos myself. Not saying he's wrong. He's definitely correct, especially if you just dump the water on. You have to do it in steps. Whereas with a sprayer, with good soil, you can just spray away. Lol. At least ime.

PadawanWarrior said:

Ya my soil isn't hydrophobic either. Slow watering definitely helps. And I use yucca too if the soil starts becoming hydrophobic. But I don't have to use it much though. kratos always has good info. I read all his posts that I see.

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I'm going based on the assumption the OPs water is hydrophobic due to the question he asked. I very well could be wrong, of course.

Even when I completely soak my peat based soils with water prior to transplant, I still find there are "dry pockets" when I harvest the plants if and when I observe the soil in the pots. I've found that slow watering in multiple steps helps to eliminate these dry spots, but that's just my experience.

PadawanWarrior said:

I always add the top dressing before watering. Is it important to get it moist first?

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Definitely not "life or death" by any means, but I find it helps quite a bit. The majority of the organic inputs we use are in a powdered form, so they tend to clump up on you if you apply them prior to watering. Or worse, the pressure from the water makes a huge mess/waste of the top dress.

I've found that, by doing the first 1/3 of my watering and then applying my top dress, the amendments tend to absorb the water. This prevents the issues I mentioned above from happening while simultaneously allowing for a more even application of said amendments. Neem Meal is the biggest culprit of this.

@Hollatchaboy suggestion of using the spray bottle is definitely a great idea, and something I've done many times in the past when I'm only dealing with a handful of plants at a time. With more than a dozen plants it can become time consuming hitting the amendments with a pump sprayer, which is the only reason I stopped doing that. A pump sprayer will totally work wonders and achieve a similar result.

By applying amendments this way when I'm watering, I've found that I get minimal powder being blown into the air (waste), the water "activates" the amendments, and allows for more even application.

Using a form of mulch will also help even more with both watering and applying dry amendments, especially if you're using wood chips or pine needles as mulch. The first 1/3 of water covers the mulch, and the dry amendments get caught into the mulch. Not only does this prevent the aforementioned issues from occurring but will result in the mulch decomposing faster than normal, translating to free compost. Win win! Just my experience, at least.

Regards.