Defoliation Experiment - Side by Side Sister Clones

Bugeye said:

If they were outside there would be no difference in light intensity between top of plant and bottom. A fair test will have the same light intensity at the top of the plant where the buds grow biggest.

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But the test is not only testing the size of the bud. We are also going to monitor additional veg growth before flowering even starts. The test is to determine the overall growth of the plant. If halfway through the experiment Sinead in 8" taller will I have a group crying that it's not fair and I have to move the untrimmed plant up? Even though in that scenario the untrimmed plant would have more buds that "could" develop; but because while in veg the defoliated was able to use more energy for height the untrimmed plant's buds would be at a disadvantage due to light distance. That's only one scenario and I'm not saying that's my hypothesis. What I am saying is we have two weeks to make the rules. I know some of you in the beginning (maybe still) thought I was some kind of showboat full of it. I guess I put myself out there for it too. But I really do this for a living, I crossed over from the tomato industry full time in 2007. Before that I grew personal for close to ten years. I do this for a living, I'm not the guru of guru's, but I do know a few things. I will run this experiment 100% to all the variables that are set. I'm actually documenting this in the university database and will publish the findings.

So let's get some ideas flowing, rules set, questions posed and let the plants decide.

Well in the real world if I'm growing 6 different strains indoors and one of them is 12" taller than the rest, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to raise the rest of them up to that level or bend the taller one down.

Isn't the idea to give each plant the same light intensity? If not, I would call the test invalid because you are changing variables that should be held as constant as possible.

I have no dog in this fight, I would just like to see a scientific approach to something that is always presented as an anecdote on this forum.

Bugeye said:

Well in the real world if I'm growing 6 different strains indoors.

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I still don't get your point, they are all the same strain. So because you defoliate one plant you're saying it deserves special care? If you pull leaves off a plant an it suffers you don't give it more care, that's the reason for the expierment.

We are not testing for what level of light intensity produces the biggest yield so to control the experiment you give each plant the same level of light intensity. Light intensity falls off very quickly indoors. By maintaining the same space between lights and top of canopy you are controlling the experiment. This is also how most people manage their grow rooms.

She wants to grow the control plant as a tree which is also a mistake because it will not get the hormone release that you get from defoliation, pinching off, fimming, or LST. So if you have one plant that is getting a hormone release and one that is not, that is also a poorly controlled experiment and the tree will grow taller than the others with greater node spacing.

She also wants to do a fourth plant that gets different nutrients. This is also a poorly controlled variable that has no place in this test.

^su said:

Level bottoms, if defoliation truly doesn't slow down growth there is no need to vote right? If they were outside would you try and bring the sun closer? Let the tests roll with just the defoliation taking place.

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exactly!

hey op. if you wanna give the plants the unfair advantage of getting them closer to the light...this doesn't surprise me.

hell man, may as well give em some more nitrogen too. they will need all advantages they can get.

and@ neo1245. the general consensus is that doing this to plants DOES NOT HELP! so the onus is on you nutjobs to prove otherwise.

I am not gonna do your research for ya.

I say level canopy and same nutes for all. No special treatment for any of those lady's....that's my vote and I'm sticking to it...

ummm a level canopy means lifting up the defucked plants...yep that's equal

lvl bottoms for sure. really it's the only way I find it to be a fair experiment.

You guys understand that if they were grown outdoors the light intensity at canopy level would be exactly the same no matter any difference in height? Let go of your biases.

First, the test is to determine the effects of defoliation. To compare we need control plants, right? All of the plants will be given the same nutrients with the exception of plant 004. Plant 004 is a side observation I'm doing for another project that just fit into this well.

Secondly, I am doing this for research to benefit Indoor growing (outside gives us nature as a variable we can't control). That said... In all practical purposes I would agree the canopy should stay level throughout. If you were growing with either style you would keep the canopy as close to the light as possible.

Just my 2¢'s

lol@ BUGEYE. go ahead and try to give them any advantage you can...like I said

they will need em.

I can tell this test will be very scientific

no they wouldn't outdoors or anywhere.

shorter plants get less light....

less light = less growth

less leaves =less growth

all this shit

why is this hard to figure out?

profterpen said:

First, the test is to determine the effects of defoliation. To compare we need control plants, right? All of the plants will be given the same nutrients with the exception of plant 004. Plant 004 is a side observation I'm doing for another project that just fit into this well.

Secondly, I am doing this for research to benefit Indoor growing (outside gives us nature as a variable we can't control). That said... In all practical purposes I would agree the canopy should stay level throughout. If you were growing with either style you would keep the canopy as close to the light as possible.

Just my 2¢'s

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RIIIIIGHT...and like I said. they would be fairly even if you hadn't chopped the fuck out of them...but since you have now you wan't to move them closer....LOL

WONDER WHY?

Votes so far:

Nitegazer: Tops
Bugeye: Tops
^su: Bottoms
jointed: Tops
dopeydog: Bottoms
JoeMacclennan: Bottoms

So far a tie....

BTW, if I were running a test on the best kind of flower pot, solid sided or Smartpot, I would put the canopies at the same height. It wouldn't be giving an unfair advantage to raise up the shorter pot, because the height of the pot is not what is being tested.

In the same way, a we are not testing defoliation to determine the effect of a plant being short, we are testing to see if losing foliage has an affect on overall growth. Putting both plants the same distance from the light gives them a desireable control, since height is not the variable we are testing.

If the point of this experiment is to test if being farther away from the light reduces growth, I can save us all a bunch of time.

joe macclennan said:

lol@ BUGEYE. go ahead and try to give them any advantage you can...like I said

they will need em.

I can tell this test will be very scientific

no they wouldn't outdoors or anywhere.

shorter plants get less light....

less light = less growth

less leaves =less growth

all this shit

why is this hard to figure out?

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your fallacy is showing, but run with it forest

dumdeedumdum

ssw with another great post!


lol

hey op. since nobody will agree in all fairness you need to double the size of the experiment

some defucked plants lifted up to equal canopy height some left on the floor.

my predictions..

the defucked plants will take several weeks if not a month longer to be ready to flower.

just a guess here

Nitegazer said:

BTW, if I were running a test on the best kind of flower pot, solid sided or Smartpot, I would put the canopies at the same height. It wouldn't be giving an unfair advantage to raise up the shorter pot, because the height of the pot is not what is being tested.

In the same way, a we are not testing defoliation to determine the effect of a plant being short, we are testing to see if losing foliage has an affect on overall growth. Putting both plants the same distance from the light gives them a desireable control, since height is not the variable we are testing.

If the point of this experiment is to test if being farther away from the light reduces growth, I can save us all a bunch of time.

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Exactly......well said

I vote level canopy. That is the reason and a benefit of growing indoors. If nobody wanted extra control over the environment (which includes light) then they'd just grow outdoors. Which will also be a thing. Prof T is doing a great job here being patient enough to try and cater to everyone's input and requests. Everyone needs reminded that this will likely be a much larger experiment than it is now, meaning many users will perform their own experiments. Like someone said before, we will eventually have enough conclusive data to debunk or confirm this shit. Going good so far, keep up the good work prof

you guys are messed up. the scientific method is to change ONE thing at a time.

you are wanting to change several...therefore your results will be skewed.

If you don't believe me there is this http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml





[h=2]Key Info[/h]

• The scientific method is a way to ask and answer scientific questions by making observations and doing experiments.
• The steps of the scientific method are to:
  • Ask a Question
  • Do Background Research
  • Construct a Hypothesis
  • Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
  • Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
  • Communicate Your Results
• It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. A "fair test" occurs when you change only one factor (variable) and keep all other conditions the same.
• While scientists study how nature works, engineers create new things, such as products, websites, environments, and experiences.
  • If your project involves creating or inventing something new, your project might better fit the steps of The Engineering Design Process.
  • If you are not sure if your project is a scientific or engineering project, you should read Comparing the Engineering Design Process and the Scientific Method.

joe macclennan said:

dumdeedumdum

ssw with another great post!


lol

hey op. since nobody will agree in all fairness you need to double the size of the experiment

some defucked plants lifted up to equal canopy height some left on the floor.

my predictions..

the defucked plants will take several weeks if not a month longer to be ready to flower.

just a guess here

Click to expand...

good retort, dont respond to the content just , defame and discredit in your feeble attempt to make me look as stupid as you.......but please run with it, please continue to profess a technique that you have not mastered doesn't work keeping doing your best to persuade others that you have any idea of what you speak off as usual

LST, FIM, Topping, bending, what ever the technique may be it can be utilized by experienced and smart growers to increase yield , when used properly and with care and understanding for what you are doing