Chilling again :-)

G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Leds dont defeat heat - again some mythical led quote based on bad science.

Conduction convection and radiation we teach here and most see how the whole led being cooler just dosent stack up and the part about ir being needed in large amounts.

If you like em go with it but im heavy on the actual science and promote peeps to climate control their house or at least the room the tent is in.

I guess those in wood shacks situated in a swamp at 50°celcius paying a buck a kilowatt hour are going to come at me next saying climate control for them in the advanced 21st century is impossible due to their weak ass approach to life and indoor growing :-)
Click to expand...
I never said LEDs produce less heat than hps watt for watt, please dont put words in my mouth.

Its simply that to cover my given space 720 watts of led will replace my 1kw, so 1450 will replace 2kw and be 550 less watts of heat in the summer. In the winter the heat is used to warm my house because my room is exhausting into my hvac system
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
I'm also capped at how many watts I can use by my home wiring not being very good so i cant really run over 2kw. If i changed to 2kw of led i could roughly produce 30% more, that alone would very helpful.

If you would like someone to argue with and talk about science it's best to find someone like chiefrunning fist so you can disagree, I'm not the one you wanna fight with.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
I'm also capped at how many watts I can use by my home wiring not being very good so i cant really run over 2kw. If i changed to 2kw of led i could roughly produce 30% more, that alone would very helpful.

If you would like someone to argue with and talk about science it's best to find someone like chiefrunning fist so you can disagree, I'm not the one you wanna fight with.
Click to expand...
2kw dosent heat a house much if any, a 2kw foot heater is more efficient at heating - many misjudge the heat a bulb supplies and that light dosent directly heat air (why cooltubes make little difference).

Add this to the fact your quoting led at 30% more efficient so 30% more yeild makes us laugh :-)
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
I'm also capped at how many watts I can use by my home wiring not being very good so i cant really run over 2kw. If i changed to 2kw of led i could roughly produce 30% more, that alone would very helpful.

If you would like someone to argue with and talk about science it's best to find someone like chiefrunning fist so you can disagree, I'm not the one you wanna fight with.
Click to expand...
chiefrunningfish sounds like just another led poster child - you need to account for the science your mis quoting and heating houses with tiny bulbs when thats never going to be the case - yannow light passes through air without heating it directly?

Physics is weak with led peeps not just their lights :-)
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
chiefrunningfish sounds like just another led poster child - you need to account for the science your mis quoting and heating houses with tiny bulbs when thats never going to be the case - yannow light passes through air without heating it directly?

Physics is weak with led peeps not just their lights :-)
Click to expand...
Well I've used my grow to heat my house for years so you may wanna rethink that.

In fact many people around here use the heat generated by their lights to heat their house... this isnt a new concept
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Leds and cobs might not defeat heat but most of the heat generated points up toward extraction, given the design of the heat sinks. This is a real difference to note, as it does make canopy temps a lot easier to control for a lot of people.

Hps and cmh direct more heat toward canopy, the hoods also play a role in it, as the air flow off the underside has the warm air pushing down. Closed hoods remove the issue but then force you into a locked foot print that does not suit every space. The ballasts are also an issue of heat, while some people can mount them up high or out of the room, others can not on either account and have higher low/mid ambient as a result.

A lot of the issues of hps/cmh heat ''can'' be eliminated, but it isn't easy or even fully possible logistically or with current funds for some people.

The price to truly make a hps set-up work consistently well all year round will actually cost you around as much as a cob set-up in the end. The real difference here is that all of the money in utilizing hps properly is spread across different units (such as higher climate control) so you ''can'' skimp out on some things, at the cost of end product amount/quality. With cob you can't really skimp since most of the money is in the units. This means those who had a shitty hps set-up will see a huge difference if they go to cob. those who had a truly good hps set-up (not that common tbf) won't see a huge benefit going to cob, some, but not loads.

I do think the issue some good and bad hps growers had when trying cob (maybe even led) is that they tried to apply hps knowledge and climate to cob/led, you can't do that. I do however say that with a grain of salt since a lot of led units were rip offs, a lot still are.
 
Last edited:
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
2kw dosent heat a house much if any, a 2kw foot heater is more efficient at heating - many misjudge the heat a bulb supplies and that light dosent directly heat air (why cooltubes make little difference).

Add this to the fact your quoting led at 30% more efficient so 30% more yeild makes us laugh :-)
Click to expand...
May help to be a little more open minded when someone who's used hps for many years is just giving an account of their experience <shrug>

You were stubborn about floro tubes as well but you've learned better now havent you?
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Leds and cobs might not defeat heat but most of the heat generated points up toward extraction, given the design of the heat sinks. This is a real difference to note, as it does make canopy temps a lot easier to control for a lot of people.

Hps and cmh direct more heat toward canopy, the hoods also play a role in it, as the air flow off the underside has the warm air pushing down. Closed hoods remove the issue but then force you into a locked foot print that does not suit every space. The ballasts are also an issue of heat, while some people can mount them up high or out of the room, others can not on either account and have higher low/mid ambient as a result.

A lot of the issues of hps/cmh heat ''can'' be eliminated, but it isn't easy or even fully possible logistically or with current funds for some people.

The price to truly make a hps set-up work consistently well all year round will actually cost you around as much as a cob set-up in the end. The real difference here is that all of the money in utilizing hps properly is spread across different units (such as higher climate control) so you ''can'' skimp out on some things, at the cost of end product amount/quality. With cob you can't really skimp since most of the money is in the units. This means those who had a shitty hps set-up will see a huge difference if they go to cob. those who had a truly good hps set-up (not that common tbf) won't see a huge benefit going to cob, some, but not loads.

I do think the issue some good and bad hps growers had when trying cob (maybe even led) is that they tried to apply hps knowledge and climate to cob/led, you can't do that. I do however say that with a grain of salt since a lot of led units were rip offs, a lot still are.
Click to expand...
Most of the heat generated comes from the light as radiation and is not present until it hits a surface - outside rhe sun throws more light and ir than we can and so again question this excessive heat im not seeing still.

That light radiation heat is meant to be there- it drives transpiration which is mother natures nost efficient cooler.

Really most could cut their extraction and plants would thrive on a lot less than the wind tunnels most create.

Im not at idds with leds.... im at the complete opposite end and my answers to their constant claims clear as day. No argument just waiting till they complete a basic physics and biology xourse and apply that knowledge :-)
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
@Flowki "Theprice to truly make a hps set-up work consistently well all year round will actually cost you around as much as a cob set-up in the end."

Possibly but I think that equipment is needed for everyone.
To keep my temps perfect I use 2 wall mounted fans and 2x 8 inch fans on carbon filters pulling air through carbon filters and plumbed into my hvac system, this very effectively moves the heat into the rest of the house. While @Kingrow1 said that wasnt possible (lol) it very much is possible and all the proof you need is to feel the vents pushing warm air into the rest of the house.

There can be snow on the ground outside an my house is still about 70f , so I guess if what I'm doing isnt working like I claim then I'm somehow working unknown black magic to keep from freezing to death
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Most of the heat generated comes from the light as radiation and is not present until it hits a surface - outside rhe sun throws more light and ir than we can and so again question this excessive heat im not seeing still.

That light radiation heat is meant to be there- it drives transpiration which is mother natures nost efficient cooler.

Really most could cut their extraction and plants would thrive on a lot less than the wind tunnels most create.

Im not at idds with leds.... im at the complete opposite end and my answers to their constant claims clear as day. No argument just waiting till they complete a basic physics and biology xourse and apply that knowledge :-)
Click to expand...
Id like to get more into my reasons for dropping flouros and starting using hps for veg to give way more light. I take a small hit in electricity but i create the outside sunlight more and more transpiration etc etc.

Yaknow my flouros have better spectrum than leds - some of their more exspensive phospors are the closest to daylight known :-)
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
@Flowki "Theprice to truly make a hps set-up work consistently well all year round will actually cost you around as much as a cob set-up in the end."

Possibly but I think that equipment is needed for everyone.
To keep my temps perfect I use 2 wall mounted fans and 2x 8 inch fans on carbon filters pulling air through carbon filters and plumbed into my hvac system, this very effectively moves the heat into the rest of the house. While @Kingrow1 said that wasnt possible (lol) it very much is possible and all the proof you need is to feel the vents pushing warm air into the rest of the house.

There can be snow on the ground outside an my house is still about 70f , so I guess if what I'm doing isnt working like I claim then I'm somehow working unknown black magic to keep from freezing to death
Click to expand...
It might heat a room a few degrees but a house - ya pull the other one, it was warm already and at best it added a slight dulifference. Seriously though if 2kw of lightbulb heated a house im pretty sure all them much higher kw heating systems would soon change for two bulbs in a box and fan.......

C'mon physics and reality must come into play at some point. Even most of the heat is not the bulb its the surfaces warming from radiation and them cooling from air running past it and not the actual bulb too :-)
 
Johnny Lawrence

Johnny Lawrence

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
I always have an answer to this led stuff - consider that if you find led better than cmh and hps one of the following is your problem -

* You suck a little and dont get high numbers from cmh or hps but led grows you bigger yeilds.... Yer thats just a lower watt led so not such a big boy light and your plants suffered less from your lack of skillz - 0.6 gram from hps pfffft be more like over a gram then maybe i believe your side by side. Just look at what some pull wow.

* Your environments off and cant handle that massive ir from hps, ya'know that outdoors the sun is almost half this spectm and plants love it. Again poor skills learn how to make a hps work.

*Extremly long veg times - quit scrogging and stuff and grow fast smaller and more efficient - you will start loving cmh ansmd hps again. Veg time fuck with a lot of stuff, grow some leaf the go for bud dont grow massive plants unless outdoors as no lights are that great there :-)
Click to expand...
Dude, you've got some little shit closet grow
Kingrow1 said:
Leds dont defeat heat - again some mythical led quote based on bad science.

Conduction convection and radiation we teach here and most see how the whole led being cooler just dosent stack up and the part about ir being needed in large amounts.

If you like em go with it but im heavy on the actual science and promote peeps to climate control their house or at least the room the tent is in.

I guess those in wood shacks situated in a swamp at 50°celcius paying a buck a kilowatt hour are going to come at me next saying climate control for them in the advanced 21st century is impossible due to their weak ass approach to life and indoor growing :-)
Click to expand...
Yeah, they do reduce heat.

Once again, I replaced a pair of 600s with 900 watts of Citizen and Cree cobs, and I'm nailing the exact same numbers. 300 watts less = less heat. Same weight. Same quality. Plus the extra 100 watts of the fan that was pulling air off of my two hoods.

400 watt reduction in an area much hotter than where you live, that also has much higher electricity rates. I've posted this to you many times, but you just don't seem to get it. Have fun with your head stuck in the sand.

BTW - I also replaced one of my 4x4s, that was originally running a 600 watt HPS, with 450 watts of LED. Guess what? Same numbers in terms of weight, less electricity, less heat. i know with your shitty little tiny closet grow that you don't have the ability to run experiments like this, but facts are facts, son. Learn how to deal with reality.

Or just be grumpy for the rest of your life. I could seriously give two shits either way.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Johnny Lawrence said:
Dude, you've got some little shit closet grow

Yeah, they do reduce heat.

Once again, I replaced a pair of 600s with 900 watts of Citizen and Cree cobs, and I'm nailing the exact same numbers. 300 watts less = less heat. Same weight. Same quality. Plus the extra 100 watts of the fan that was pulling air off of my two hoods.

400 watt reduction in an area much hotter than where you live, that also has much higher electricity rates. I've posted this to you many times, but you just don't seem to get it. Have fun with your head stuck in the sand.

BTW - I also replaced one of my 4x4s, that was originally running a 600 watt HPS, with 450 watts of LED. Guess what? Same numbers in terms of weight, less electricity, less heat. i know with your shitty little tiny closet grow that you don't have the ability to run experiments like this, but facts are facts, son. Learn how to deal with reality.

Or just be grumpy for the rest of your life. I could seriously give two shits either way.
Click to expand...
The guys a dumbass, I gave up long ago. Everyone should just ignore him.
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
It might heat a room a few degrees but a house - ya pull the other one, it was warm already and at best it added a slight dulifference. Seriously though if 2kw of lightbulb heated a house im pretty sure all them much higher kw heating systems would soon change for two bulbs in a box and fan.......

C'mon physics and reality must come into play at some point. Even most of the heat is not the bulb its the surfaces warming from radiation and them cooling from air running past it and not the actual bulb too :-)
Click to expand...
You should consider listening to those with experience when you have none yourself.

I've ran all sizes of grow from 100-8000 watts. With a small grow like what you run its unimaginable that it will produce that much heat, but as you scale up the heat truly does add up.

Maybe you wouldnt be able to heat your house with 2000 watts... but you may be able to do it if you tried and spent a lot of time figuring it out like I have.
Maybe your place isnt as well insulted as mine, could be factors like size of the house and a dozen other factors you dont think about
Excellent air movement via wall fans, directed at my exhaust plugged directly into the home hvac allows me to harvest excess heat from the walls, and other surfaces into the air, and out of that room and into the other rooms.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Johnny Lawrence said:
Dude, you've got some little shit closet grow

Yeah, they do reduce heat.

Once again, I replaced a pair of 600s with 900 watts of Citizen and Cree cobs, and I'm nailing the exact same numbers. 300 watts less = less heat. Same weight. Same quality. Plus the extra 100 watts of the fan that was pulling air off of my two hoods.

400 watt reduction in an area much hotter than where you live, that also has much higher electricity rates. I've posted this to you many times, but you just don't seem to get it. Have fun with your head stuck in the sand.

BTW - I also replaced one of my 4x4s, that was originally running a 600 watt HPS, with 450 watts of LED. Guess what? Same numbers in terms of weight, less electricity, less heat. i know with your shitty little tiny closet grow that you don't have the ability to run experiments like this, but facts are facts, son. Learn how to deal with reality.

Or just be grumpy for the rest of your life. I could seriously give two shits either way.
Click to expand...

Its because you and others didnt know the basics of where to place a thermometer or how to dry is why i simply dont bother responding :-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top