Cashless Society

DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
orangejesus said:
That's not allowed in many states - LTV needs to be above 80%. You're lucky the state AG or DOI didn't catch wind (or the CFPB)... or a savvy attorney.

The industry is in such an unprecedented position - never before would a used car sell for over MSRP, and then further appreciate $2-4k over the next few months. I'm now seeing loan contacts on 20+ year old vehicles... 84 month loan on a 20-year-old vehicle... fucking insane.

The only reason more parallels are not drawn between the 08 housing crises and the auto loan industry is that rolling-over negative equity into a new loan multiple times is much more under the radar than a foreclosure or short-sell (as is power-booking, or selling unnecessary add); vehicle prices, loan terms, payment amounts - all at all-time highs, and people are still lining-up to buy.
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I know right? Back in 2007?.. somewhere around there. TFCU would have an unlimited LTV. So if you hade a credit score of 740 or higher, they would have no LTV. This lasted about 40 days until they shut that program down. People were lumping $30,000 in credit card debt onto thier car loans. Didn't take them long to figure out that this was a bad idea. And yes, certain banks/financial institutions have a hard limit on GAP. Some have a hardline base of 80% of the total loan amount (including back end products), so alot of this was trial and error trying to figure out how to keep a "captive" client base while keeping the repo portfolio at bay. What do you do again?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
orangejesus said:
That's not allowed in many states - LTV needs to be above 80%. You're lucky the state AG or DOI didn't catch wind (or the CFPB)... or a savvy attorney.

The industry is in such an unprecedented position - never before would a used car sell for over MSRP, and then further appreciate $2-4k over the next few months. I'm now seeing loan contacts on 20+ year old vehicles... 84 month loan on a 20-year-old vehicle... fucking insane.

The only reason more parallels are not drawn between the 08 housing crises and the auto loan industry is that rolling-over negative equity into a new loan multiple times is much more under the radar than a foreclosure or short-sell (as is power-booking, or selling unnecessary add); vehicle prices, loan terms, payment amounts - all at all-time highs, and people are still lining-up to buy.
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the prices on 20-year-old pickups are a pipedream.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
But then again, the whole market went to hell in a hand basket due to sub prime loans. Dealerships were "creating" fake jobs for an applicant, and printing fake pay stubs (i've seen this done in person) to get a loan approved and funded. We'd make the employer's contact number as one of the managers cell phone numbers and have a log of who was taking that "interview" from the employer (fake). So we were all assigned numbers from these funders and had to answer our own cells as "Classy Nails, how can I help you?"... it was fucked up, and I regret doing it out of greed. Way back in my younger days in the biz. We were all crooks. But, as I got my feet under me and no real debt, I quit participating in that kind of activity. Circa 2004-5... which lead up to the collapse of 2008.
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
Dealerships were "creating" fake jobs for an applicant, and printing fake pay stubs (i've seen this done in person) to get a loan approved and funded. We'd make the employer's contact number as one of the managers cell phone numbers and have a log of who was taking that "interview" from the employer (fake). So we were all assigned numbers from these funders and had to answer our own cells as "Classy Nails, how can I help you?"... it was fucked up, and I regret doing it out of greed. .
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Ive seen the same and calling the 'discount" from the Retail price a deposit. Just made up $ as the down payment.
Yes its a dodgy game all right but bloody fun.
We had a doctors office for winding back speedos at one yard i worked at.
All this reminiscing makes me want to open up a little yard!! lol

I created a fictional business for my home loan 12 ish years ago to suit the requirements of a No Doc loan. I was unemployed at the time as id left my job and moved states and wanted 6 months off before working as a semi retired person. Best thing i ever did. Well both are. becoming semi retired at 40 and dodging up the home loan. Place has more than doubled in value and its nearly paid off.
 
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Drop That Sound

Drop That Sound

Well-Known Member
For the price of a new car and the dealers cut, a lot of cussing and greasy hands, I could own a whole fleet of vehicles. I do, lol. Always have 1 or 4 spare parts cars of the same make/model to rip parts out of. Oh ya, and you could buy a small piece of land as a junk yard to store them all. Crazy what people pay for new or even used cars.

How much is a new one ton truck these days? 40-60k? Plastic tin can pieces of garbage IMO. Any day of the week I can go get under 100k mile 1970s class c doge RVs for practically free, because the camper sections rot out and no one wants them anymore. Rip it off with the excavator, add a bed + some sheet metal to cover the back of the cab, and your under a grand for a real 1 ton dually flat bed with 440 big block.

I laugh at big boss truck men that just took out a second mortgage on a shiny new truck that hardly ever does any work, and will dent if you even look at it.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
mooray said:
I like how businesses with shitty marketing practices taking advantage of people is fine when you're the one doing it to others selling them cars, but omg those other tech companies are monsters when they do it.
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In the immortal words of Gautama Buddha:

“what’s in it for me?”
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
mooray said:
I like how businesses with shitty marketing practices taking advantage of people is fine when you're the one doing it to others selling them cars, but omg those other tech companies are monsters when they do it.
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It’s all I ever knew from the time I was 18. When that’s your only career for 32 years, you just get numb to it. …. Unfortunately. I’m not saying it was right.
 
O

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
Drop That Sound said:
For the price of a new car and the dealers cut, a lot of cussing and greasy hands, I could own a whole fleet of vehicles. I do, lol. Always have 1 or 4 spare parts cars of the same make/model to rip parts out of. Oh ya, and you could buy a small piece of land as a junk yard to store them all. Crazy what people pay for new or even used cars.

How much is a new one ton truck these days? 40-60k? Plastic tin can pieces of garbage IMO. Any day of the week I can go get under 100k mile 1970s class c doge RVs for practically free, because the camper sections rot out and no one wants them anymore. Rip it off with the excavator, add a bed + some sheet metal to cover the back of the cab, and your under a grand for a real 1 ton dually flat bed with 440 big block.

I laugh at big boss truck men that just took out a second mortgage on a shiny new truck that hardly ever does any work, and will dent if you even look at it.
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If I had a nickel for every time I've read one of these 'I can do it cheaper with old shit 'cause I'm cheap' I would have been able to pay for my $60k F150 in cash, instead of only financing 2/3rds of it (legitimately no need of GAP). Also, body is aluminum - not plastic - so your opinion is misinformed. Props to you for having enough room for four junked cars so you can make repairs; I decided living in a junkyard isn't for me, so it made sense to buy new and opt for the vehicle service contract (purchased at dealer cost).

WTF do most people need a 1 ton dually with a big block for? There's a reason Ford no longer makes passenger vehicles (with the exception of the Mustang) and why the Lightening and all EV trucks have long waiting lists. Not to mention any new vehicle is much, much, MUCH safer than anything from the 70s ( not to mention handles better, more power, less maintenance)
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
orangejesus said:
If I had a nickel for every time I've read one of these 'I can do it cheaper with old shit 'cause I'm cheap' I would have been able to pay for my $60k

WTF do most people need a 1 ton dually with a big block for? There's a reason Ford no longer makes passenger vehicles (with the exception of the Mustang) and why the Lightening and all EV trucks have long waiting lists. Not to mention any new vehicle is much, much, MUCH safer than anything from the 70s ( not to mention handles better, more power, less maintenance)
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I had heard (while working for a Ford Dealership) that it was the cost of R&D for new cars was just as much as an F150/250, and that they had lost like 4M in 2018 selling cars. Im sure you know the difference in profit margin from a Focus to and F250. Wasn't much room to work with on a Focus.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
orangejesus said:
aftermarket F&I, tech before that
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Cool. I started as a Porter in the service Dept. back in the late 80's, got a Service Writer position, then Sales, then Management. I've done New Car, Used Car and Finance Managers positions. Great career if you spend within your means, and make yourself a retirement plan.
 
O

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
Cool. I started as a Porter in the service Dept. back in the late 80's, got a Service Writer position, then Sales, then Management. I've done New Car, Used Car and Finance Managers positions. Great career if you spend within your means, and make yourself a retirement plan.
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we are a car-centric nation - there will always be money to be made in the auto industry.

as to your point re: profit - I think too many makes came out with too many variations (model/trim/etc.); look at what BMW/M-B/Audi offered in the early 90s compared to now; the F150 has been their best-selling, most profitable vehicle forever - makes sense to focus on it.
 
conservative

conservative

Well-Known Member
orangejesus said:
I just reviewed a loan with a 29.99% APR, so you're not doing too bad lol.

Congratulations on the new truck - I love my mine... but looking forward to trading-in for a Roush some day soon
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Yeah, any opinions on the 3.5l eco vs the v8 in terms of reliability? 3.5 can tow more but the v8 has been around a long time. although, the parts have probably been modified like they use aluminum caps now I think for example.
 
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