building a 750w LED fixture from high bay lights
- Thread starter watsongreenthumb
- Start date
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
I've done it but with low voltage drivers of a known and reliable brand and with some unexpected results and hiccups. My advice: don't do it, just get proper drivers. It's not very expensive and burning down your house is very expensive. Do you even know the max voltage of the connectors of those strips? Seriously take care with high voltage.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
They are ul listed sosen drivers, I dont think they are any better or worse than whatever I would buy instead, but running them in parallel could be iffy, and your absolutley right about the number of unknowns with the strips. I just emailed growdaddyleds to see about getting some more specs. The meanwell drivers growdaddy suggests to run with the strips are all constant current drivers, they spec the meanwell HLG 320H-C1400B to drive 9 strips and that driver is rated @ 229Vdc fwd voltage max. As far as burning up the connectors on the strips, the higher the voltage the lower the current for a given wattage, so any given wire size or connector can safely supply more juice (wattage) at a higher voltage and lower current. Its the amperage/undersized wire that causes fires.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
Okay so after thinking about it some more and doing some more research, and taken the feedback I have gotten into consideration, I am thinking running 2 drivers in parallel is just asking for trouble that I dont need. I am curious to see how it works and may do some experiments and testing with it, but NOT going to plan a fixture around doing so. I have had some experience paralleling non led related dc power supply's, and the issue is getting the drivers to share the load evenly, since these are constant current drivers in theory they should each just put out their rated current but would love to do some testing and see what happens lol.
Now for actually using these drivers to power something, I want to thank @1212ham for suggesting the bridgelux EB series of strips, I was able to actually find some light strips other than the samsungs that seem to be everywhere, and actually have real spec sheets instead of sketchy ebay listings. Turns out theres lots of information out there and lots of available strips, you just need to have a better search query than "LED grow light strips" lol. I think I have decided on the bridgelux EB gen 3 strips, probably in 3000k. They are affordable, (1190mm is $9.27 a piece when you buy 10) and have good output and efficiency when run at their nominal current of 700ma->186 lumens per watt @ 3000k and 200 @ 4000k. they are also a good match for the driver, 5 of the 1190's in series would be 192v to run them at 750ma. The Digikey link for these strips is HERE. They also create so little heat that folks are even running them just bare board, no heatsink at all!!! Crazy, however I am thinking I will run them on some 1/8 bar stock or angle though, since they are only 1/2 wide I could run several on a 1 1/2 inch profile angle or bar. I do love how these strips are available in so many lengths as well, so I can test hang 4 of the ufo's in a square, see what spacing gives the best coverage, and then pick the size of eb strips that best fit in between them.
Now for actually using these drivers to power something, I want to thank @1212ham for suggesting the bridgelux EB series of strips, I was able to actually find some light strips other than the samsungs that seem to be everywhere, and actually have real spec sheets instead of sketchy ebay listings. Turns out theres lots of information out there and lots of available strips, you just need to have a better search query than "LED grow light strips" lol. I think I have decided on the bridgelux EB gen 3 strips, probably in 3000k. They are affordable, (1190mm is $9.27 a piece when you buy 10) and have good output and efficiency when run at their nominal current of 700ma->186 lumens per watt @ 3000k and 200 @ 4000k. they are also a good match for the driver, 5 of the 1190's in series would be 192v to run them at 750ma. The Digikey link for these strips is HERE. They also create so little heat that folks are even running them just bare board, no heatsink at all!!! Crazy, however I am thinking I will run them on some 1/8 bar stock or angle though, since they are only 1/2 wide I could run several on a 1 1/2 inch profile angle or bar. I do love how these strips are available in so many lengths as well, so I can test hang 4 of the ufo's in a square, see what spacing gives the best coverage, and then pick the size of eb strips that best fit in between them.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
They also make a High output version of the bridgelux eb3 strips that produces basically double the lumens as the slim version BUT at 1400ma instead of 700ma, and the efficiency stays the same. these are even more cost effective too, I wonder how they do that as both have a single row of chips, looks like same number of diodes and everything. Actually the HO version is slightly shorter, 1120mm vs 1190... Interesting
The strips you linked are the slim version, flimsy with half the surface area, i wouldn't run them without some heat sink. I believe @Rocket Soul has said the connectors are smaller and a pain.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
They aren't the most forgiving when it come to mounting. I prefer strips with holes rather than notches for mounting and you need to size the wiring to connectors: I use standard 1mm stranded which didn't work, when I tried .75 mm stranded the strands was too flimsy so I had to regauge 1mm wire to .75mm for about a 100strips. Not great but doable, if you have access to solid core it might be easier. But still broken a connector even if being care full. Don't use them without sinking or backing, they are flimsy af.
The HO version: not sure about this one but I cannot rec it for 1400mA without sinking that PCB is going to be burning hot. Also I've seen people getting this and then not being able to determine if they got HO or regs. It's not a case of double lines, maybe HO diodes. If you want to run higher power you should run ALU based PCB not fr4 plastic.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
I was planning to run them on something like 1 1/2" wide 1/8 inch thick bar stock aluminum or could go with angle in the same size if it needs more of a heatsink. Wasnt planning to run them
I was planning to run them on something like 1 1/2" wide 1/8 inch thick bar stock aluminum or could go with angle in the same size if it needs more of a heatsink. Wasnt planning to run them bare, just saw a few threads where people were doing it and thought it was pretty wild. I saw the HO versions but they need to be run at 1400ma and the ufo drivers are only putting out 750 max. Small connectors could be a pain I will have to do some more research
Yeah no way I was going to run them just hanging in space, I saw some pics of fixtures people had built like that and it looked pretty sketchy to me. I saw these strips have plastic or fiberglass backing and not aluminum so I want to be extra concious of heat. Does running one of these strips on 1" wide 1/8" thick bar stock sound like enough? Thats like 25mm wide and a little over 4mm thick in metric. Thanks for the heads up and insight as far as no screw holes, just those notches, that does look like more of a pain- maybe I could use a washer with a screw to get a better hold on the strip? The drivers I have to use are constant current with a max output of 750 ma @ 200v so I thought the eb3 slim strips would be a good match, but if there are other strips from bridgelux or any brand really that you would reccomend instead Id love to hear about them. I plan on getting some more powerful drivers and trying some higher power strips in the future but for now Ive got to work with what ive got and the eb3 1190 seemed like a good match.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
That should be sufficient heatsinking, if you went up slightly in size you could probably run 2 of them per sink.
I would consider using the reg gen3s at 700mA and no backing as well unless you have really cheap sinking available. After doing by gen3 slim build it just felt like a lot of work.
Also don't let the UFO driver dictate your build, they might crap out on you.
EB2 are less than half the cost, don't need heat sinks at their 700ma test/nominal current and are a good match for the 750ma UFO drivers.
They don't need to run at 1400ma, they can run at 1400ma or 700ma or whatever.
BTW, Bridgelux, Samsung and others are also available at arrow.com. Their search engine sucks so find your part number at Digikey or wherever and search that at Arrow.
An EB2 I threw together in about a half hour.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
i do use the slims, you may saw the thermal cam pictures at full blast in a non ventilated tent, would expect any problem there at all.
the connectors are smaller then on the regular EB3 but theyre no real problem to work with, just the release mechanism is a pita, while you seldon will need that.
one benefit is that you can squeeze more slim strips in to the same area.
would go more after which forward voltage and lengh fits better to your needs and last but not least after the price.
HO or regs? I remember something about that but I only see eb3 that are HO, eb3 Thrive and eb3 Slim.
I was never brave enough to use stranded wire in the push connectors, just used the solder pads. Sometimes I use speaker wire and just hang them with that.
With zero heat sink? Can you post a link?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
modular overkill led striplight build
i rebuilded my striplight, containing 56 EB3 slim bridgelux strips, 3000k 80cri. Killed some connectors during this action, their release mechanism can be a pain. Anyway, it works! The new frame is 80x80cm (31,5x31,5 inch) 20x20 t-slot profile, hung on all 4 corners. Its for a 3x3 and/or a...
www.rollitup.org
This is cobbys fantastic build and grow thread. Some thermals in the first page. But I believe he runs his Slim's at 525mA max; 4 strings from a 2100mA driver.
HO version: I remember someone getting them from Digi iirc, and when they turn up they have all the markings of the regular ones. Loads of confusion with emailing between the guy, blux and digi. He got it all returned in the end, no-one actually found out what was the deal in the end.
In any case the datasheet seems to show the same PCB as regs and that PCB can't handle 1400mA.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
Okay, I dodnt realize there was a gen3 slim, ho AND regular version. All I saw on digikey was the ho and slim. But I am just getting used to using digikey. It can be hard to find something on there without knowing the part number. Love the idea of using a wider heatsink and running 2 per piece of bar stock. With the design I had in mind I would need at least a sturdy square frame around the outside, so I could mounts some to that, and then run some in the middle too
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
yes i only run them 525mA max. but there is tons of headroom, tent was 30c, back of the strip measured with a heatgun 35c and highest i could create was 41c with the thermal cam pointed on the led die, i think that will be close to the real die temp and would be very good.
no fans or vent running, let the setup run for a hour at least before measuring.
the strips do have contact to the aluminium framing which will distributes some heat, but thats it.
in real life i drive them even lower, never ran full power in a grow so far, and i have 140mm fans blowing on them plus a exhaust fan running, so temp are way lower then in the test, my finger say slight above ambient.
no fans or vent running, let the setup run for a hour at least before measuring.
the strips do have contact to the aluminium framing which will distributes some heat, but thats it.
in real life i drive them even lower, never ran full power in a grow so far, and i have 140mm fans blowing on them plus a exhaust fan running, so temp are way lower then in the test, my finger say slight above ambient.
I found that thread...
Bridgelux EB Gen 3 High Output 4ft Strips
Cool, cool! I'm very interested in your .7a build as that's what I'm thinking about doing for veg lights. I just got my 2nd order of plc strips today, now just waiting on tnutz next week then I can knockout my 2nd 16 strip build!
www.rollitup.org
I didn't either! I'm so confused.
Digikey has the eb3 HO and I downloaded the datasheet from there. I also have a eb3 datasheet but don't know where I got it. The gen3 HO data does show about double the current draw for a given voltage. I'll search the gen3 part numbers to see what I find and if anyone sells them.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
Okay so the eb2 is still available and even cheaper+ heatsinks fully optional?? THAT sounds like the move!!!! Love that fixture btw, nice use of some closet shelf, I actually have some refridgerator shelves like that I need to find a use for.
watsongreenthumb
Active Member
wow so much good data, still reading through everything but I found the Series 2 on digikey, its way at the last page after the gen 3 even when you search eb gen 2. But unfortunately right now looks like the 4 footers in 3000k are only available in quantities of 100. Good price though- S7.50 a piece.
I checked out the regular gen 3 data sheet, looks just like the ho version with the wider backing, but has drive currents and voltages closer to the slim series. The build @cobshopgrow did looks awesome and I love the thermal camera images, What a way to prove the concept of running those boards bare. I am probably going to put the strips on some bar or angle for this build because the number of them Im going to use for stage 1 of these fixtures (10 if I go with 4 footers) would fit on the frame I need to hold the ufo's together, especially if I run them doubled up on the aluminum like @Rocket Soul suggested. I think that would be a good start, and then I could get a separate driver to run more strips in the middle of the frame as sort of a stage 2. It would be awesome to be able to get a whole bunch, underdrive them, and be able to run them with just a few supports across the middle instead of having to cut a piece of bar stock for each one, that would be tedious with so many strips. As far as wiring, I do have lots of different wire sitting around, mostly solid but some stranded too. I couldnt find anything on the data sheet about the wire gauge the strips accept. I thought i heard something about 20-24 gauge wire but that could be something floating in my head about another strip, as I am learning A LOT about led's very quickly with this project. Again thanks for all of the info guys, there is some really great stuff here. As somebody new to led's but still familiar with electronics and electrical work, it was really hard at first to find much information past like a video of some guy wiring a samsung quantum board, and I am really glad I decided to post and to keep digging in general.I found that thread...
Bridgelux EB Gen 3 High Output 4ft Strips
Cool, cool! I'm very interested in your .7a build as that's what I'm thinking about doing for veg lights. I just got my 2nd order of plc strips today, now just waiting on tnutz next week then I can knockout my 2nd 16 strip build!www.rollitup.org
I didn't either! I'm so confused.
Digikey has the eb3 HO and I downloaded the datasheet from there. I also have a eb3 datasheet but don't know where I got it. The gen3 HO data does show about double the current draw for a given voltage. I'll search the gen3 part numbers to see what I find and if anyone sells them.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
" It would be awesome to be able to get a whole bunch, underdrive them, and be able to run them with just a few supports across the middle instead of having to cut a piece of bar stock for each one, that would be tedious with so many strips. "
yes absolute the way to go i think, just benefits for a little money more, sometimes even not this if you calculate the price of heatsinks.
the max wire gauge is stated in the datasheets, for the slim it was just AWG 22 or 24 i think (?) i took 0.75mm solid core, which is a tight fit in the slims but does the trick well and very easily caries the 2.1A max (4 in parallel, so 0.525A each string).
if youre in the USA simply get the max stated AWG allowed.
just while removing the cable... hold the connector while pulling otherwise its gone, the relase mechanism on the slims is halfway useless, maybe similar on the regulars.
solid core wires push and pull much better and single strands can be anoying, so solid core for this, for a remote connection of the fixture of course flexible wire, 1.5-2.5mm, over a junction.
yes absolute the way to go i think, just benefits for a little money more, sometimes even not this if you calculate the price of heatsinks.
the max wire gauge is stated in the datasheets, for the slim it was just AWG 22 or 24 i think (?) i took 0.75mm solid core, which is a tight fit in the slims but does the trick well and very easily caries the 2.1A max (4 in parallel, so 0.525A each string).
if youre in the USA simply get the max stated AWG allowed.
just while removing the cable... hold the connector while pulling otherwise its gone, the relase mechanism on the slims is halfway useless, maybe similar on the regulars.
solid core wires push and pull much better and single strands can be anoying, so solid core for this, for a remote connection of the fixture of course flexible wire, 1.5-2.5mm, over a junction.