Attention all Bernie Sanders supporters

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
It is your opinion that identity politics is the basis of democracy and it isn't working out for the vast majority of Americans. Sooner or later they'll try something different- and after 40 years, sooner has come and gone.
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It is a fact that people have been organizing and voting together in order to achieve their ends for about 3000 years. The Constitution (actually the FIRST amendment in the Bill of Rights) forbids government from interfering with of people's speech. Also the 1st forbids government interference in people's ability to meet and discuss grievances. Also, voting is legally considered a form of speech. These are facts, not opinions. If the ability of people to discuss grievances and to collectively vote to redress grievances were not important to Democracy then why was this right written into the First Amendment?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Sandernista said:
If Sanders loses the Democratic primary, again.
Are you going to support the Democratic Nominee this time?
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If the DNC rigs the Democratic primary or Democratic party elites in any way stifle the progressive candidate, I will not vote for the Democratic candidate
Fogdog said:
It is not true that "many stayed home or voted for Trump". In 2016, about 90% of all Sanders supporters voted for Hillary. In 2008, about 75% of Hillary supporters voted for Obama.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/?utm_term=.c5356808da39
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Weird, Sandernista liked this post that seems to completely contradict his claim. What up, man? Is Fogdog right that Sanders supporters voted in higher numbers for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008, did you just get caught lying?
Fogdog said:
Identity politics is the basis of Democracy. People with common interests voting together is how they ensure their interests are represented.
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'bloc', bud..

'Identity politics' is not the problem. It's the weaponization of identity politics that's the problem. It's the way you invoke gender, age, sexuality, race, religion, etc., to avoid actually responding to policy driven opposition. Because Bernie Sanders is an old white male, he's not in touch with POC, even though he's spent his entire career fighting for the rights of minorities and the disenfranchised, and every poll shows he has higher support from minorities than white people. Yet the narrative from people like you persists. You say we're helping Russia? You are helping the Democratic party establishment by perpetuating falsehoods and obvious lies.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If the DNC rigs the Democratic primary or Democratic party elites in any way stifle the progressive candidate, I will not vote for the Democratic candidate

Weird, Sandernista liked this post that seems to completely contradict his claim. What up, man? Is Fogdog right that Sanders supporters voted in higher numbers for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008, did you just get caught lying?

'bloc', bud..

'Identity politics' is not the problem. It's the weaponization of identity politics that's the problem. It's the way you invoke gender, age, sexuality, race, religion, etc., to avoid actually responding to policy driven opposition. Because Bernie Sanders is an old white male, he's not in touch with POC, even though he's spent his entire career fighting for the rights of minorities and the disenfranchised, and every poll shows he has higher support from minorities than white people. Yet the narrative from people like you persists. You say we're helping Russia? You are helping the Democratic party establishment by perpetuating falsehoods and obvious lies.
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Like I said, people gang up to vote as a bloc for many reasons. The KKK and southern white vote notoriously did so about a hundred and more years ago. They are still doing so today. Identity politics are defined as:

i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics
noun
  1. a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.
Sanders supporters can be said to be engaging in identity politics too (they are mostly white men). You guys even have your own PAC, for cripes sake. Don't blame Sanders skeptics for wondering why the connections between him and Russia exist. We didn't invent those connections and Sanders has bungled any opportunity to explain. Let's not forget that he's now bungling questions arising from claims of sexual misconduct and unsafe environment for women that is claimed to have gone on in 2016. Don't blame us for not letting him sweep it all under the carpet.

Unions can be called identity politics because they are made up of workers in given trades. Same with Black Lives Matters movement and what is wrong with black people taking leadership on redressing grievances. Or should workers, women and black people just shut up and become powerless in the face of the white male dominated majority?

Do you know who most avidly hates it when people come together to move away from broad based politics? The people who like the status quo.

So you have it all wrong. Identity politics represents change from the status quo. It is necessary to give voice to people who are overwhelmed otherwise. Also the power elite hate them because they are disruptive.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
LOL

I included a citation from the Washington Post. The numbers came from an NPR - related study. I have read them and found them convincing. The numbers were: 10% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump while many more, 25%, of Clinton voters went on to vote for McCain.

So, no I have not just "get caught lying". I could be wrong. If so, prove it. What's your beef about that anyway? Do you want to believe that Sanders votes went to Trump?
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I think you misread what I wrote. I was agreeing with you about the Sanders v. Clinton votes
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
Yup, I was Bernie or bust last time around. !!! Hehehe.

After he was cheated out of the primary win. I voted my conscience.. I voted Green, for Jill Stein!

I am tired of old school politicians like Hillary! My vote will not be held hostage, by those that are so out of touch with the plight of the WORKING poor. (Key word WORKING)

Don't blame 2016 Bernie supporters for Trump. Democrats did that to themselves! Look Inward, not at the Russians.

Me, I hope Bernie DON'T run again.

My eye is to the new young class of Representatives, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez along with all the other rebels just elected to the house .
(Warren and Polosi should retire with the rest of the dinosaurs. They both have recently demonstrated how out of touch they really are.)
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
OPfarmer said:
Yup, I was Bernie or bust last time around. !!! Hehehe.

After he was cheated out of the primary win. I voted my conscience.. I voted Green, for Jill Stein!

I am tired of old school politicians like Hillary! My vote will not be held hostage, by those that are so out of touch with the plight of the WORKING poor. (Key word WORKING)

Don't blame 2016 Bernie supporters for Trump. Democrats did that to themselves! Look Inward, not at the Russians.

Me, I hope Bernie DON'T run again.

My eye is to the new young class of Representatives, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez along with all the other rebels just elected to the house .
(Warren and Polosi should retire with the rest of the dinosaurs. They both have recently demonstrated how out of touch they really are.)
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I too would prefer if Democrats select from a younger pool of leaders.

If things keep going in the direction we are headed, all workers are going to be poor. Republicans are the cause of this mess. I don't see how throwing a vote away to a party's candidate who can't win does anything but help the Republican's cause.

The national Green party was loooooony tooons though. No way I could have voted for them. I support some of the Oregon Green Party's local initiatives. I think the Greens need to grow up, beginning at the grass roots level and grow leadership through political experience at the local and state levels.

How many able bodied poor people do you know who aren't working? From what I've seen and experienced, people with low incomes work their asses off, way harder than people with higher incomes.
 
NWO4LIFE

NWO4LIFE

Active Member
Sandernista said:
Berniebros are like badly adjusted teenagers that get rejected

"I hope your new boyfriend is abusive to you because you don't want me. And I'm going to tell everyone you're a slut"
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Kinda like the killary klinton klan and how the treat my boy Trump. But continue the in fighting this is how my boy Trump wins again.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I

How many able bodied poor people do you know who aren't working? From what I've seen and experienced, people with low incomes work their asses off, way harder than people with higher incomes.
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I see some, able body... What may be the case is they are not able minded?.
But like you say lots of low income folks working their asses off.

Sure, Republicans are worse these days, but many Democrates are no angles, when it come to not sticking it to the lower working class.

Not hearing main stream Democrates, standing up to say Regan's "trickle down economics" did not work and should be abandoned.

The concentration of wealth is threatening the very foundation of democracy. The last time populism and nationalism trended up like now, we had global war.

It's not time for more hohum, buisness as usual politicians.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
OPfarmer said:
I see some, able body... What may be the case is they are not able minded?.
But like you say lots of low income folks working their asses off.

Sure, Republicans are worse these days, but many Democrates are no angles, when it come to not sticking it to the lower working class.

Not hearing main stream Democrates, standing up to say Regan's "trickle down economics" did not work and should be abandoned.

The concentration of wealth is threatening the very foundation of democracy. The last time populism and nationalism trended up like now, we had global war.

It's not time for more hohum, buisness as usual politicians.
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Mostly agree.

If one looks at voting records on progressive legislation, the absolute worst Democrat is leagues better than any Republican. So, no. I can't agree that there is overlap between the two parties. The voting record and policies they pursue when in control are very different. The difference between Democrats who passed the ACA when they were in control and Republicans who passed a massive debt driven tax give-away to the wealthy could not make the differences more clear.

There is a problem among Sanders supporters where they don't recognize that voters in most districts in the heartland are not very progressive or liberal. Naturally they would elect representatives who don't hew to the California liberal ideal. Their voice needs to be heard and respected. Still, in those districts, healthcare, education, workers rights and higher wage jobs are all core Democratic Party values that serve their needs better than Republicans who pretty much only offer a return to elevating white people over brown or black ones.
 
NWO4LIFE

NWO4LIFE

Active Member
Fogdog said:
Mostly agree.

If one looks at voting records on progressive legislation, the absolute worst Democrat is leagues better than any Republican. So, no. I can't agree that there is overlap between the two parties. The voting record and policies they pursue when in control are very different. The difference between Democrats who passed the ACA when they were in control and Republicans who passed a massive debt driven tax give-away to the wealthy could not make the differences more clear.

There is a problem among Sanders supporters where they don't recognize that voters in most districts in the heartland are not very progressive or liberal. Naturally they would elect representatives who don't hew to the California liberal ideal. Their voice needs to be heard and respected. Still, in those districts, healthcare, education, workers rights and higher wage jobs are all core Democratic Party values that serve their needs better than Republicans who pretty much only offer a return to elevating white people over brown or black ones.
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Why doesn't the democratic party fix the issues in the districts they rule over before going after areas they don't? Why haven't the democrats built up the inner cities most have been historically left leaning for decades before I was even alive. at what point does the prosperity for the people happen? I'm just trying to figure out how there wasn't elevation for the "blacks and browns" under Obama but Trump is elevating all the whites right now? Do you actually think about the shit you believe in?
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
NWO4LIFE said:
Why doesn't the democratic party fix the issues in the districts they rule over before going after areas they don't? Why haven't the democrats built up the inner cities most have been historically left leaning for decades before I was even alive. at what point does the prosperity for the people happen? I'm just trying to figure out how there wasn't elevation for the "blacks and browns" under Obama but Trump is elevating all the whites right now? Do you actually think about the shit you believe in?
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Why did Republican Mitch McConnell vow to make Obama a one term President. Stopping or attempting to stop any thing positive Obama put forth. How was Obama to make changes in such a toxic environment they create for him. Why did so many right wing idiots say shit like Obama was Kenyan. Regardless of what his father was, humans come out of women. Do you idiots really think that his mother took her lily white self to Kenya to give birth.
The answer to all your questions come from fucking racism, bigotry and ignorance
 
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