Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

Prologue:
Humans have cognition.
Which sometimes may prove rather ,
misleading and counteracting itshelf...
Being able to choose to respond with virtually countless different responses,
even to a single external stimulus coming from 5 limited "world sensing" mechanisms ,
is rather relative way to interact with the "external world".,at general...The surroundings ...

-"Internal world" is where cognition ...hmmm." Takes place "....If we can say so...-

Plants,do have different way of handling different stimulus...But it is not a matter of choise...
A hidden will ,that surrounds life generally is the common first "directive" :
Survival of shelf( as unit ..or population,in some cases...) so to multiply shelf( as species) ,under any cost .
From that first "directive",
*****(which is written with big letters ,underneath title ,at the "Codex Vitae ;book of life- ...that only alchemists get to read..

..")****
other "directives" do " outcome ",also...:
i.e Survival of the fittest ...

Watch out ..
Not rules...Directives...
Rules apply for those organisms ,which are able to choose ,to break them ...
Directives can not be avoided or denied ,by organisms which live without having the group of abilities ,
humans refer to as "cognition"....
-At least that's what humans ,trust or "believe" so...

Click to expand...

Best kept secrets are hidden in common view....
...
Is it ever possible for a plant that is "Shade Adapted" to produce more flowers ,than a "Sun Adapted Plant " ?
More simply put...
Can a plant with " less light ",produce more...i.e. flowers, than another one,
growing in more " favourable light conditions " ?

Well...The answer is already outhere...
In natural environment...
And it is yes ....
Definately ,yes !

But .....
(Here's the catch ...)

What exactly do we mean when we refer to "Shade Adapted" , "Sun Adapted Plant " , " less light " & " favourable light conditions " ?
.....
Plants,may mean otherwise than humans do ...
( " May ? "...)
...

Disecting first pair...
First things first ...

Us humans,probably, perceive "Favourable Conditions" in very much different way plants do..
For us ,determining those conditions ,is done by using the "referance " method.
Simply put ,between two different situations (enviromental sites) ,we "specify" as
"more favourable " the one ,of two ,that succeeds most ,fulfilling the "referance's " standards.


Regarding Plant Growth in general ,as human science has proved ,light is the main & solely energy source on this planet,used by living plants,for producing their own resources ,so to sustain their growth & reproduction needs,regarding energy& matter.
"Rationally " acting ,human cognition abilities ,specify as"Favourable Conditions " for plants ,
those that are rich with primary energy.Thus "more light ",for us humans ,may easily mean "
Favourable conditions for plant growth "...
But is this " belief" or "logical assumption" standing " true ", really ?


Plato was really a clever guy...
He knew only one thing....
That he didn't knew anything at all,really....
That's human cognition's ultimate truth...
Or a fact,if you like...
Cognition's only Directive...
"Have the ability to learn and find out.."
Soon (? ) to realise that you don't know sh!t ,almost, about anything...
Not even who or what exactly you are...
Or why all these around you exist ,along with you... "
Anyway...


Coming along ,to confirm this human hypothesis ,regarding "Favourable Conditions" ,is the
actual facts on sites of planet Earth,which are characterised by those conditions.
Vast populations of plants ,many different species ( species diversity ) ,large sized plants ,ect..
Numbers....
Human cognition and numbers...Long story,that one.....


But humans live among humans as humans...
Plants amongst other plants ,as plants....
Sounds kinda weird ?


For plants ,those "Favourable Conditions" sites , in fact ,often mean "Overpopulated Sites."
Or worse "Sites of Great Antagonism " ...
Simply put...

"War zone."

And every each one plant , is implicated,one way or another , into that "war"having it's own "enemy pool" ...
Often belonging to it's own kind (species )...
A war ,where even the neighbor is an enemy..
Specially the neighbor,as moving or translocating is impossible,for plants.
A war ,that tries to keep all species far from "overpopulating " and "overtaking" the site...
Nature (life ) is not keen on that kind of strategies..Empires do fall and in fact ,very easy....


If a plant was to completely dominate a site ,an insect specie could have had vanished all vegetation,at such case....
And then get exincted also,due to lack of food......
Diversity...Another "life directive"..Thus evolution...The fittest of variations will survive...
Life will continue...The show must go on.....

[video=youtube;9BdFUrCwhqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BdFUrCwhqc[/video]


Many higher plants growing at sites with "favourable conditions" ,
do in fact have counteracting mechanisms ,
to control their own population from overpopulating and/or exausting natural resources.Conservation.Ecology.
Counteracting mechanisms ,induced by the same those " favourable conditions"...
Like the one of producing "few seeds" .....(Thus few flowers....)
'Cause there are all the "favourable conditions" in the world ,for most of them to survive,germinate and be new plants.....
If they were lots of them ,specie will have had been exincted , most probably,by overconsuming and /or byproducting("waste")....
Or if dominated,could have also been whiped out completely ,by another life form,due to lack of diversity...
Weak point(s) would-could , have been the same for all specie individuals...

And ,contrary to what it may ,appears to be like ,nothing is left to "luck",by Life....

Grape juice has "favourable conditions" for microorganisms....
But there's no natural control if closed to a container...
Microorganisms consume sugars, get overpopulated due to "favourable conditions",
sugars get exausted , byproducts/waste(alcohol) concentrations increase ...
At a point there's not enough food for everyone...
&...
Waste is too much,to bear...
Every single microorganism dies..
Extinct...
"Life" will never show up there,again..
Wine is ready,then...

Cheers...

Does post #576 suggest that you will be adding a large amount of 660nm red for your flowering stage? 660-680nm range was the only red mentioned in the posting. Does that also mean that you will be attempting to play with night time lengths via 730 Far reds?

As for my previous post on the subject of C3, C4, or CAM plants. I wasn't suggesting any of the three. I was simply putting out there that everyone automatically accepts that cannabis is a C3 plant without any testing/research to back up that theory and that the only test I have seen completed states that it is NOT a C3 plant. I did read a study last night that suggested most C4 plants evolved from C3's within the last 3000-5000 years. A recent find of cannabis in a Chinese grave sight was a Sativa from around 700BC. If you have any studies suggesting that cannabis is a C3 plant I would love to see them.

Does post #576 suggest that you will be adding a large amount of 660nm red for your flowering stage?
660-680nm range was the only red mentioned in the posting. Does that also mean that you will be attempting to play with night time lengths via 730 Far reds?

Step by step...

As for my previous post on the subject of C3, C4, or CAM plants. I wasn't suggesting any of the three. I was simply putting out there that everyone automatically accepts that cannabis is a C3 plant without any testing/research to back up that theory and that the only test I have seen completed states that it is NOT a C3 plant. I did read a study last night that suggested most C4 plants evolved from C3's within the last 3000-5000 years. A recent find of cannabis in a Chinese grave sight was a Sativa from around 700BC. If you have any studies suggesting that cannabis is a C3 plant I would love to see them.

You know what ?
In the next pages ,to come ,you will realise ,
that even the Indica-Sativa thing is under serious question and doubt ...
Not just the carbon fixation way...

We 've been neglecting ,that plants ,as more simple organisms ,evolve much faster ,than we do....
More , than of what we think ...
Thus the "the last 3000-5000 years"may prove that is way enough time for evolution ,specially for an annual " weed " specie ,
that can show genome alterations (from repeated external stimulus or absence of it ) in just 10 or 20 generations...( mj )...

Step by step...

I' ll show" my " *(of course not mine only,or perceived as "interesting" just by only me ...) side of the case...

guod said:

-Growth efficiency of leds (regarding male plant vegetative growth ) : 3 gr / kWh !!!

3 gr/kWh per plant?

Click to expand...

That's tricky now..
(Well done for mentioning that... )

Well this male unit did reach to a weight of 150 gr in fresh biomass terms (approx 75% H20 & 25% of the rest..C, N,P,K,Mg,Ca,S,ect ) ,
with 50kWh of energy , totally consumed ...

Should we define " totally " ?
In total number of plants ?
In total Leaf canopy area ?
or in just total growth area illuminated ... ?

-number of plants ," contains " the different genome parameter , even between individuals of same genotype ,or even phenotype...
-Leaf Canopy Area ,apart from genome ,contains Leaf Area Index,depth,techniques of layering used,ect...
-Total growth area is rather... cynically absolute & lifeless ,but not much of parameters there....

So...
Shall we say 3gr kWh[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]....
After all thats what is produced from one plant ,in 1m^2 led illuminated space ,consuming 50kWh.. .

But then again if they where 10 plants ? ..
..

3gr kWh[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] / plant ?..Or for that exact plant....?

Plant -Led light-space efficiency =3gr kWh[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2 [/SUP]

Establishin' new "indoor gardener's units " and abbreviations ,specially for led growing ?


So 3gr kWh[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2 [/SUP]is the plant's production efficiency [ PPE ]grown inside ,that Particular Controlled Environment [ CE ]..
PPE meaning that this plant was able to produce 3 grams of fresh biomass (Detailed : For every 1 gram of root , 2 grams of shoot ,approx ) ,while
the energy spent per square meter of CE was 1 kWh ( 1000 Watt for one hour... )..

1000 Watt/m^2 is( rather normal to intense) sunlight irradiance (400-700 nm ) ..
If was Outdoors grown-with same PPE- ,under that irradiance ,it would have taken one hour ,for plant to produce 3 grams of total
(sub & above earth ) fresh biomass.(Hypothetically )
(....ideally 2,25 gr being water and 0.75 gr being Carbon,Nitrogen and all other elements...)

The controlled enviroment efficiency [ CEE ] if i.e 10 plants alike were the max. number filling the area of one square meter ,
would have been 30 gr kWh[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] (ideally...)...
So...More precisely...
CEE = Sum of individual PPEs ...

Oh..I love leds....

They push "evolution" really hard....

Introduction.
Plants have involved for ..many... years under the natural sunlight.
That's the primary directive for them.
" Search for Sunlight".
(As in "search for food"....for other living forms...)

Being (the plants) so mutable and prone to evolve rapidly (relative to other living organisms and time needed ..)
and probably also being very kind to us,they can adapt to artificial ,electric ,light sources...And grow just as fine as they would ,under natural sunlight...
Or almost as...

Lucky us ? Or was meant to be like that ? ..

Click to expand...

But sunlight reaching Earth's surface ,comes in many different ....."variations"....
Thus ,the many other "variations" ,which occur....

We should have a ..hmmm.guh..brief look at those "variations" and how they exist first place...

We will beam up to Earth's most "favoured conditions" (humanly perceived ) growing site....
The Equator ....
.
Date: 21 of March.
("season" begins..For some of us..)...

That particular day daylength is of same duration with nighttime aka Vernal Equinox Day.
12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness .

Sunlight rays/particles " fall" perpendicularly at surface of earth, at a Equatorial site.
Or the sun is at it's zenith.

Sunlight rays/particles,thus ,penetrate the least possible atmosphere thickness.
So sunlight pretty much stays " unfiltered " and " undispersed ".

Enough heat is passing through atmosphere ,as a lot of red radiation/photons
(relatively to other sites of Earth) as a lot of light power in all wls ,in general...
A lot of UV there too...
Blues do not disperse so much ..(Sky rather white/pale cyan , than "sky blue" at noon... )
Much light & heat ,coming from straight above , lasting 12 hours....

As Earth rotates and Equator being the furthest radius ,of Earths's sphere ,
from it's axle of rotation....
It moves fast...
Morning and afternoon ,do not last long ,either....
The night to day and vice versa change ,happens quite rapidly...
So most of the 12 hours of daylight ,pass under high sunlight irradiations...

As days (time in general )pass ,Earth's axle angles towards the sunlight's direction...
(Because of a really complex to explain ,complex also series of inclinations,happening periodically...-mostly......).

Equator is "moving" / " declining "to the South....
Nothern Hemisphere gets " closer" to the Sunlight...
Or more precisely ,sunlight is falling perpendicularly ,
somewhere in North Hemisphere and not in Equator anymore.....

For N. Hemisp. summer is coming ,for S.Hemisp. ,equator included ,winter is approaching...

At 21 of June ,aka Solstice ,sunlight will fall perpendicularly at a G.Latitude of N23° 26' 16 ",
(for the year 2012,is that...it kinda changes all time...
Those weird movements..Stop it..I wanna get down... )...
At that date is the longest day of summer ,for N.Hemisph.
At G.Latitude of N23° 26' 16 " is 12 hours....
That now is referred as "fantastic Equator " ,but is more known as Tropic of Cancer ...

Beaming up , further to the North ,daylength of the same day(21 June) ,increases....
In fact at North Pole ,there's no nighttime at all...
As Earth rotates ,the whole N.Pole Area is exposed to sunlight,continuously...
23° 26' 16 " is max angle of Earth's inclination...(For year 2012...)


As time passes ,and now Earth begins to incline towards it's original position...
Daylength decreases in N.Hemisphere ,while increases in S.Hemis.

Again Equator reaches ,it's original place ,where sunlight falls perpendicularly,at
approx 22 of September aka Autumnal equinox.

Further than that date,daylength gets less than 12 hours in N.Hemisphere....


Studying two examples.

In what we may falsely ,refer to as "Indica" & "Sativa"..
Is there such a thing ,really..?
Or they just rushed to sub-categorise species ,based on leaf shape and height ,or bud yield and formation ?
And if it stands true....
Is somewhere out there "two" quite different genetic pools to back up this up...?
That would be the only acceptable proof...
(Still unavailable.)
-Not leaf shape...
Leaf shape ,amongst many-many others ,is easily controllable / changeable when using leds..
So one can not be based on photomorphogenesis induced physical characteristics, so to categorise a species of plant...
Characteristics which remain stable under any external pressure ,during plants life time....
Those are also acceptable as proof....Like with Cannabis genus and Celtis genus or Humulus genus,
all belonging to Cannabaceae family ..
Or with Ruderalis Species case....
No matter if you change to 12/12 or not ,plant will flower.....
And that cannot be changed ,by any conventional method,leds or no leds...
That is ,because it is another species of cannabis..
It's leaf shape,though ,that can be changed.
Piece of cake...

Click to expand...

.

We shall do a hypothetical experiment.
(Feel free to judge and weight ,the possible outcomes ,
comparing them ,with what happens in "reality"...
The ultimate reference point.)
....

Das Experiment.

Subjects : Two (2) genetically indentical mj clones from same "donor" plant ( aka "mother" ) .
Strain irrelevant.Say," 50/50 Indica /Sativa " ,if you wish so...

Experiment Summary : Each clone will be set to grow in two different locations [ grow sites ] ,regarding their Geographical Latitude.Geographical Longitude stays same.Both grow cycles will be recorded and if any differences ,will be noted and analysed.

Cycle duration : Both clones,having same "age" will be planted at same date ,
and plants harvested at same date,also.
Planting date is set at 21 of March ,harvesting date will be 22 of October .
Total grow cycle duration is approx. 7 months .


Grow Sites :
-Grow Site "STV" has geographical coordinates of : 15°N 0° w .
-Grow Site "IND" has geographical coordinates of : 45°N 0° w .


Grow Sites Sunlight & other Climate Parameters:
-Grow Site "STV" :
1) Rather Moderate and stable Temperatures / Relative humidity Values ,throughout grow cycle duration.

2)Rather Moderate and stable Temperatures / Relative humidity Values ,throughout day/night times .

3)Short(brief,quick) sunrising & sunsetting ( rapid transitions ).

4) At 21st March daylength duration is 12:06':08".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 75°
Average sunlight irradiance of 800 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

5) *Approx . at 18-20 of May, incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) is perpendicular to horizon :90°*
Average sunlight irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 2000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

6)Max daylength duration ,at 21st of June, is 13:01':35".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 82°
Average sunlight irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 1500 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

7)At 22nd of September daylength duration is 12:08':55".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 75°
Average sunlight irradiance of 800 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

8 )At 22nd October daylength duration is11:43':36".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : approx 67°.
Average sunlight irradiance of 700 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

9) Slightly filtered and/or dispersed sunlight,throughout whole grow cycle .
Quality of light can be considered pretty stable,without great alterations.


-Grow Site "IND" :
1)During grow cycle Temp start at 15-16° C at end of March ,
rise up to 35° at June-July and then start dropping back to 15-16°C ,
towards harvest date....
R. Humidity follows same pattern of ...From high to low to high again....

2) There's an average difference of 10° C ,between daytime and nighttime...
During nighttime humidity rises,gradually,to maximum (early at morning ).
During daytime it drops ,gradually,to minimum..(late afternooon...)

3)Long sunrising & sunsetting ( slow transitions ).

4) At 21st March daylength duration is 12:06':35".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 45°
Average sunlight irradiance of 500 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 800 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

5)Max daylength duration ,at 21st of June, is15:39':21" .Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 68°
Average sunlight irradiance of 800 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 1000 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

6)At 22nd of September daylength duration is 12:16':58".Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : 45°
Average sunlight irradiance of 500 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 800 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

7)At 22nd October daylength duration is10:41':52" .Incident Sunlight angle (to horizon) : approx 37°.
Average sunlight irradiance of 400 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP] .Peak irradiance of 600 umol sec[SUP]-1[/SUP] m[SUP]-2[/SUP]

8 )Heavily filtered and dispersed sunlight,throughout most of grow cycle .
Quality of light is under ( gradient ) constant change .

....

Come on now ,place your bets...
Which one is going to get taller ?
Which one is going to have massive flowering ?

Click to expand...

....We shall see what is going to happen with those two clones....
Step by step....

Tiny update..
2nd day at 13/11 cycle.

7th week of flowering.

i want to lick it....

This guy has way too much time on his hands, but there could be some ideas here http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sUtS52lqL5w

lego for growers..> http://knowngallery.com/blog/post/tag/legolize-it/

Not much of a free time lately..
Guess the "experiment " will go really step by step..


Now...
Before everything starts,regarding the "experiment"..
(Did not see any bets placed,though...)

We shall need to clarify what exactly we are going to be interested in ...
Light of course...
Mainly for the light ,our clones will receive...

We 'll have to analyse " light "....

Well we shall note down which "characteristics" of light really,affect plant growth...
And how these characteristics of light ,differ ,analog to the Geographical Latitude of grow sites...

Characteristics of light

- Quantity :Meaning the amount of Power ( photon flux )-Or the flux per area of Canopy (irradiance )- plants receive....Directly related to Incident sunlight angle,thus Geo.Latitude angle & Seasonal Declination angle of Earth....
Daily,monthly,seasonly
-Quality : The spectral characteristics of light.Indirectly related to Incident sunlight angle thus Geo.Latitude angle & Seasonal Declination angle of Earth.... .
More close to the sky's zenith (directly above ) ? Less light absorbed and/or dispersed by atmosphere...Also Sunrising and sunsetting " speeds /rates" ,are directly determining the quality of light for a certain period per day.
-Direction:Incinted angle.
-Duration.

We are going to examine month by month how those light characteristics affect the growth of each of our clones...

Regarding :

-Photosynthesis [ PSs ] & Respiration [RSP].
Photosynthesis rates and efficiencies.Nutrient & energy storage. Respiration.Anabolism & Catabolism of plants,Stomatal opening/closing.
Photosystems I & II.Photoprotection.Photoinhibition.

-Photomorphogenesis
leaf shape /stem and angle ,main stalk and branches charact.,root formation and shape,chloroplasts and their grana & lamelae ,ChA / ChB role and ratios.

-Phototropism
Following the energy source ..

-Circadian rythms
Flowering /maturing rates .Reproduction.


....
And try to figure out why some .."weird" ,"unrational" at first look (... to the "untrained eye"...) ,things are going to happen...
'Cause this "experiment" is just a plain "replication" and "analysis" trial ,of what is really going on ,outhere...

Experimenting with real facts...

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by repuk Heheh, meant liking of course! Another thing I'm recapping now: I noticed an special quality to the leaves: they're very thin and flexible compared to what I grew with the HPS or even the PLLs. I have fed 1.8EC till now, windwrung if rasing looking at their somewhat pale green...

Are they smooth??? This was the first thing that I noticed when starting with the HML.

What I want to know is, what does that mean????
SDS is the plant biologist.....
Let's see what he has to say.

I'll go post this on his thread.

Click to expand...

SDS, seeing that you are so well versed in plant biology.
What do you think about thinner smoother leaves under white leds, opposed to HPS or discrete wave length leds or PLLs?
Thinner leaves=more efficient????? Less biomass to support????

Thanks, in advance....

PetFlora said:

This guy has way too much time on his hands, but there could be some ideas here http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sUtS52lqL5w

Click to expand...

Fucking love this stuff......lol @ unemployed engineer(utube comment)........

Hey SDS are you using 13/11 throughout flower? haven't done that for some time.....Trying 14/10 kinda worries me due to my strains.......keep up the good work

tenthirty said:

SDS, seeing that you are so well versed in plant biology.
What do you think about thinner smoother leaves under white leds, opposed to HPS or discrete wave length leds or PLLs?
Thinner leaves=more efficient????? Less biomass to support????

Thanks, in advance....

Click to expand...

Well..
That is quite " expected " with low/mid irradiances of white light generally.....
....
Just a summary (more details as the "experiment" will proceed...):

Plants react in a "opposite" kinda of way in light characteristics....
If i.e there is moderate power light at low reds (620nm -640 nm ) and lower at deep reds ( 640-680)nm ,plants
change their "Photosynthetic Scheme" .Meaning that they will biosynthesise more ChA (which has peak absorbance around 660-665 nm ) ,as they
will try to gather as much as possible light at that region (low powers ).
ChA being main P.pigment of PS I. In chloroplasts, the photosystems are spatially separated: PSII and its
antenna pigments are located primarily in the stacked thylakoid membranes (grana), whereas PSI is mainly
located in the nonstacked stroma lamellae protruding into the chloroplast stroma from the grana lamellae.

So,in fact will have higher ratio of PSI to PSII (3:1 compared to 2:1), or/and have more antenna chlorophyll in PSII. These
adaptations “enhance light absorption and energy transfer” to make better use of the relatively more sparse deep red light.

Grana is stacked ,meaning ChB is "packed " denser than ChA... More "thick " light harvesting sites...
Not easy to miss photons.....( Which are fewer in low irradiances ,and specially if not much deep reds there... )
For harvesting the deep reds ,more ChA is produced....

These "actions " are a small part of " Shade Adaptance"...
As also , thin (regarding thickness) and wider leaves ,are....
Thin so that they will not absorb most of light...Let the lower leaves have their "share",also...

Of 100% incident solar energy arriving at the leaf , 60% is non-PAR photons, 8% is reflected or
transmitted, 8% is dissipated as heat, 19% is consumed in metabolism, and the remaining 5% of incident
energy is utilized for the production of CHO. However, the efficiency of utilization of this photon
energy may be much lower,as 85-90% of PAR incident on the leaf is absorbed,
strongest in blue(400-499 nm ) and red (600-699 nm )and lowest in green(500-599 nm ).


Here are general properties and tendencies of shade leaves compared to sun leaves:
• have more total chlorophyll per reaction center
• tend to be thinner, with thinner palisades
• have less rubisco and less xanthophyll (which is photoprotective)
• have higher ratio of PSI to PSII (3:1 compared to 2:1),and/or have more antenna chlorophyll in PSII. These
adaptations “enhance light absorption and energy transfer” to make better use of the relatively sparse deep red & more
abundant far red light.
• have lower rates of respiration (“dark respiration&#8221 and lower Light Compensation Point.
• have lower maximum PS rates (saturation) that sun plants.
(But usually are much more than sun leaves ,while at same time having bigger P/S active surface area per leaf .)

Bright Light Adaptations
Sun-exposed plant leaves tend to grow thicker than shaded leaves of the same plant.
Desert plants, to prevent harm by excess light (and dessication), develop various defense including hairs, salt glands,
epicuticular wax, all of which increase reflection of light from the leaf surface and reduce absorption of
light by up to 40%. Some plants utilize paraheliotropic tracking to turn away from direct sun and thereby
reduce leaf exposure to light.

We will see later how plants "sense " Strong -bright light....
Using a particular range of wavelengths...The "rarest" ones...


Thinner leaves=more efficient????? Less biomass to support????

Well..Thinner leaves are also many in numbers and quite large in overall size...
So they store more mobile elements & energy in the form of starches and sugars...
Plus that they possess lower respiration rates (lower catabolism ) and low compesation points (higher anabolism )....
And yes....
Later on during reproductive stage ,all these-along with some "other"- , usually mean ,really massive flowering...

PSUAGRO. said:

Fucking love this stuff......lol @ unemployed engineer(utube comment)........

Hey SDS are you using 13/11 throughout flower? haven't done that for some time.....Trying 14/10 kinda worries me due to my strains.......keep up the good work

Click to expand...

No ...
It's rather complex to fully analyse..(Not much time..Have to go...)

Well simply put...
With a schedule of :

-First flowering week :13/11
-Second flowering week :12.45'/11.15'
-Third flowering week :12.30'/11.30'
-Fourth flowering week :12.15'/11.45'
-Fifth flowering week :12/12
-Sixth flowering week :12/12
-Seventh 12/12 ,
Eighth 12/12 ,
Ninth 12/12 and so on....


Plant minimises streching due to sudden change of light schedule ..
( i.e . if it was like 18/6 => 12/12 )
Entrained Circadian Rythms do not get "confused"....
( A plant was expecting (Entrained by Phy ...)18 hours of light and suddenly gets 12...
Until the phytochromes "re-entrain" plant for flowering ,
plant "gets confused" that something is blocking the light...Shading it...
Thus it will stretch ,until "discovering " that it's just "winter approaching "...
When phytochromes will re-entrain plant's circadian rythms differently this time...
-That is going on with 12/12 flowering in CE )

Making the "transition "period ( From vegetative stage=> reproductive stage ) ,more "smooth ",
"nature-like", plant will not stretch that much,while still entering flowering and still produce new nodes/leaves and branches..
Thus more flower sites...Thus more flowers...

Then it's a matter of stored resources (mainly ) ,meaning lots of big leaves ,and not a matter of light power ,
for plant to support a massive flowering.....

(As we will find out,later on ...
In Natural enviroments ,no matter Geo.Lat. ,from June 21st and on ,light power and it's duration diminish/decrease,
regarding North Hemisphere of Earth...Meaning Less total light energy...
Flowers need the stored energy...Massive flowering works in that way...)

We 'll examine later on ,how exactly this works..
.....With as many details possible...

4th day at 13/11
..

(.....MothaF@(%!#& Tobacco Mosaic Virus....
As a rolling-tobacco smoker ,everything is contaminated....
Me,my clothes,my house,my lab,my garden..my plants.....
And with the lower temps of led growing ,it becomes really a menace to deal with ..
Time for quitting smokin' ? I wonder....My plants are tellin' me so....
Nice thread here at RIU,about it ....
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/383876-tobacco-mosaic-virus-serious-pics.html )


..

Very interesting about the TMV as my plants seem to have a pretty severe case of it...

I made a thread here about it, most thought it to be a pH problem. But after reading that link I'm thinking otherwise...