are people who truly belive the bible mentaly retarded?

Zaehet Strife said:

Understand, i'm not saying you ARE wrong, i am trying to help you accept the fact that you COULD be wrong... and when someone refuses to acknowledge that fact, and actively ignores it, it only depicts the desperation that the belief be held as a certainty.

Why would someone ignore the fact that their beliefs hold the possibility of being wrong? Because it's scary. It's easier to believe with certainty you know what happens when you die, rather than accept that the ideas you have about an afterlife very well could be wrong.

Again, not saying that you are wrong, just that to ignore the fact you could be... not only closes the door for further philosophical thought about it, but also merits a lie to oneself.

For all you know this is a computer generated dream world, or a hell in which we continue to reincarnate as the same person living the same life over and over again, or an exam we must take in order to get into heaven, or a test to see if our "souls" are ready to become enlightened and enter a higher level existence, or... our individuality and ourselves may cease to exist.

All of these possibilities exist, and there are an infinite amount of them, any thought count's as a possibility. How can anyone be certain which is correct and which is false? How do we know that when we have these experiences, we don't just automatically associate them with whatever belief system we have picked up? With so many different variations of religion in this world, to go prancing around saying you have found the truth with certainty, anyone who doesn't just outright agree with you will be able to call your bluff.

It is easier to fool yourself than to fool another.

I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong dude, just trying to help a fellow human animal understand the flaws in the human psyche, that all possabilites exist... even the possibility that you very well could be wrong.

It is infinitely more honest to say to others and to yourself; "I think we have souls, i think reincarnation is true and i think i will enter a different existence when i die."
Rather than trying to tell yourself and others that you know, that you are certain. But you believe what you want man, everybody does.

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Strife, you're an awesome guy, I've said it before. But when you say "just trying to help you understand", I often wonder what grounds YOU are standing on to make other people attest to 'your reality'. How could you be so certain about uncertainty?? lol

My brush with death taught me a lot more than years of church, meditation (and etc) ever did. I am the same but different (than the previous me)

I think that's all that any person has been able to say about it.

Would you be formulating a verbose account of nearly dying while you were nearly dying? Don't think so. Now, try to put it into words after the fact. Oy.

Can you be certain that anything is real? Can you be certain that this is not a dream world?

Then how can you be certain of a belief when we cannot even be certain whether or not this is real or a dream?

Regardless of a near death experience, (as i have had one too) what makes you so certain that your interpretation of that experience is 100% correct, being pretty much dead and brought back to life? Don't you think our brains may be acting a little off? What if you misinterpreted it? What if it meant something completely different than how you experienced it? The possibility exists that this may have been the case. Why persist with certainty of something that contains the possibility for error?







I absolutely love the idea of an everlasting soul, i revel in it. I want it to be true so badly, i want to believe. But just because i want it to be true, just because i had an experience that made me feel that is true (and i did) does not mean it is set in stone. It does not mean that i will certainly continue to exist when i die because no matter the experience, no matter the passion i feel towards this idea and my spiritual experiences, there is still room for error. I know i could be wrong, that the human brain is fallible, and so am i. The brain continues to work until about 10 minutes after death when all the oxygen is depleted, after that you start to suffer brain damage. So if you do literally die, declared dead, absolutely no electrical activity in the brain, you are destined to come back with some sort of brain damage. Maybe the damaged part of the brain is what caused the experience (if you were dead for that long, i was not). That puts even more doubt to our ideas about an afterlife and personal experiences does it not?

Zaehet Strife said:

Can you be certain that anything is real? Can you be certain that this is not a dream world?

Then how can you be certain of a belief when we cannot even be certain whether or not this is real or a dream?

Regardless of a near death experience, (as i have had one too) what makes you so certain that your interpretation of that experience is 100% correct, being pretty much dead and brought back to life? Don't you think our brains may be acting a little off? What if you misinterpreted it? What if it meant something completely different than how you experienced it? The possibility exists that this may have been the case. Why persist with certainty of something that contains the possibility for error?







I absolutely love the idea of an everlasting soul, i revel in it. I want it to be true so badly, i want to believe. But just because i want it to be true, just because i had an experience that made me feel that is true (and i did) does not mean it is set in stone. It does not mean that i will certainly continue to exist when i die because no matter the experience, no matter the passion i feel towards this idea and my spiritual experiences, there is still room for error. I know i could be wrong, that the human brain is fallible, and so am i. The brain continues to work until about 10 minutes after death when all the oxygen is depleted, after that you start to suffer brain damage. So if you do literally die, declared dead, absolutely no electrical activity in the brain, you are destined to come back with some sort of brain damage. Maybe the damaged part of the brain is what caused the experience (if you were dead for that long, i was not). That puts even more doubt to our ideas about an afterlife and personal experiences does it not?

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I agree on a lot of points. I cannot say that there isn't a day that goes by that I question - everything. That includes the existence of God. One cool thing I've learned about scriptures of various people is that when they describe someone (doubting Thomas, for example) they aren't saying "go and find THOSE people and change them". To me it means to go and find that in ME. It is no longer is a question of whether or not 'those' types of people exist - it is now a question of how those types of people exist in me. Also, I'm not looking to get rid of them, I'm looking to get to know them. They are not enemies they are parts of me. I do not want to battle parts of me. I want to help them find a 'right place' in here. You could say that I would like to maestro the choir, so to speak. The alternative is shtty music all fckn day

Through all the questions one thing is still there and that is the subject I am questioning (God). Even if I stop questioning it, it is still there for other people to question. "It" does not go away. What ends up changing is the level of relationship that I have with it. (and vice versa)

You should check out "I and Thou" if you haven't already. It is really doing wonders for me.

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

???????????????????????

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The answer is simple...yes, they are.

What direwolf said.

Z S I can see that regardless what anyone says you will insist on playing the 'what if' game which is a reflection of an unquiet mind.
Rather than telling everyone they're wrong, may I suggest you learn to meditate, listen, observe, read, experience.

Ahhh, so you do want to be 'that guy'. You have no answer yet you insist telling others they're fooling themselves. Misery loves it's own company. Fear is fear, how can one 'pretend' 'not to have fear'? That's nonsense & yes it's becoming offensive.

I offered to point you in the right direction but your not interested in contemplating anything, your reflex is to rubbish others opinions without offering anything [And then say "no offense") to play the 'what if?" game. Little thought is required to play the "what if" game. You still behave, think & argue like someone who is still indoctrinated. Last word of advice, replace your indoctrination with a cogent & comforting belief or you will return to the 'fold' [baa baa]. I guarantee it.

I thought you were a smart young guy Z S, now I'm not so sure. 'It is better for others to think your a fool than to open your mouth & remove all doubt.'

I'm not participating in your 'what if' game any further

Peace.

Just re-read this & I sound a bit grumpy,haha Didn't mean to Z S.
Just to clarify, I meant no point in further discussion on this issue, we've both articulated our position.

Are people who are truly atheists all mentally retarded?

HELL is, Sitting next to the bay city roller's, and listening to andy gibb sing shadow dancing for eon's &eon's

^^^^haha^^^ or anything else disco.

It's interesting that the last Pope assassinated by the Vatican [ John Paul I think. The 3rd last one] had said 'There is no physical place called 'Hell'. Hell is a state of mind' or words to that effect. Exactly. It's why they bumped him off, he was intending to continue to reveal hidden Truths.

smokinafatty said:

True, same with racism.

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No, dipshit. Racism has its origins in the natural tendency of most all animals (humans included) to be afraid of other animals who look different. We may be in the process of evolving past that now, but we're not past it yet.

Too lazy to read all 5 pages, fuck some of ya'll are wordy mofo's...

I read on page 3 or so about Tribal Instinct, finally someones scratching the surface here. People in general are sheep (sheeple if you will) and are prewired to want to fit in, belong to the group (this is much easier to see once you lose that instinct, which I'm sure some of you reading this have, but not all).

The tribal instinct, the longing to fit in to be accepted is what everyone wants as a kid, every kid seeks to be accepted. Religions know this, they know that fear will drive people to do CRAZY things, they've mastered what buttons to push for years, hell they even send people to school to learn how to manipulate and spread fear. The bible is nothing more than a tool, just like a butchers knife or a cops gun, the bible is the tool that religion uses to cram sideways up your ass repetitively. Seriously some smart fuckers wrote this book, you can't argue that and so many have wrote it, but who? I swear if we could trace back to in time to people who have amended the bible we'd probably uncover some real jackasses, con men and funny people. Could you just picture some a couple guys at a printing press drunk and high on 1600ac bud

"Say Nigel, that candle ignited your curtains"

"Woah, hey I got it, lets say moses is just walking down the road and BAM a bush catches on fire, lol people will believe that shit if we write it"

People who believe in the bible are not all retarded, their more than likely A. stupid/retarded B. weak and needing guidance C. trying to portray someone they are not (praise God I have found the lord fuckers).

The bible is a tool, agree.

If your interested read 'The Bible Fraud' by Tony Bushby where you will learn that many of the founding fathers of christianity were indeed a pack of illiterate rabble.

GreyLord said:

^^^^haha^^^ or anything else disco.

It's interesting that the last Pope assassinated by the Vatican [ John Paul I think. The 3rd last one] had said 'There is no physical place called 'Hell'. Hell is a state of mind' or words to that effect. Exactly. It's why they bumped him off, he was intending to continue to reveal hidden Truths.

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I agree with the disco bit.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm

eye exaggerate said:

I agree with the disco bit.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm

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The Pope was correct of course, in the esoteric sense, butyou will note in this link below that the right wing Christians as well asCatholics will not let go of the place of torment because they have learned tohate the other tribes so much they look forward to watching them burnpointlessly from their perch in heaven. Quite sick that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY&feature=player_embedded

Literalist believers love to hate.

Regards
DL

are people who truly believe the bible mentally retarded?

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No… I would disagree… When I was 17 I started to “THINK” for myself… The bible, seemed less logical, to me, now that I had gathered some life lessons, and smarts… My dad was a believer, till the day he died…
I’ve seen some things in a church that could only be described as a miracle. At age 19 after a hard day of work, my dad asked me if I would be the cameraman for a closed circuit telecast into an overflow room, for a particular minister that was visiting…The church was in South Central LA, the visiting minister, was the same one that is now the head of the mega church in Texas…that just had the measles outbreak…
I had drank oh, about 10 or 11 beers after work when I got the call, that the ‘regular’ cameraman could not be there that night…
After, the service was over, I just stood next to the camera, zooming in and out on my dad, and the visiting minister talking to the church pastor [up on the stage]… I didn’t want to get too close, my fear, I smelled of beer… I did my favor, I was ready to leave...
So, I just kept camera ‘rolling’ when a woman, mid 40’s maybe early 50’s, limp up the isle to the front…
She walked up to mister mega church, and asked him if the Lord would heal her…
Mega minister asked her to sit down on a chair…
The only ones still in the main auditorium were my dad, the two ministers, a couple of aids, and me 30 feet away with the camera rolling…
As the woman sat down, she was instructed to put her legs out, so they could be checked, and it sure looked like she had a short leg, maybe 3-4 inches less…
The minister asked the woman, do you have the faith to believe your leg could be healed…
She said: “YES”
At that moment, her short leg stretched out, as long as the normal one…
The five men on stage erupted in praise to the Lord…
The lady walked perfectly back off the stage, and out the front door...I often wonder about it….
Well, we went back to the control truck, and played the video of her leg growing in and out, in and out…
Those Church people were praising and singing the praises of the Lord…
Her leg getting longer, why did that happen ? Only 7 people [lady included] saw it, it was not for the masses…
I’m think, wow… crazy shit… the lady was gone into the night… her life altered…forever…
I have a memory of gods power… God only does good, however, man writes that god does bad stuff…
I give thanks in all things… that, is to me, just common sense, to give thanks… I do not now need the bible to remind me… God is a good and just god… It is just man has fukked up all religion…
My dad was a literalist… he took the bible as the word of god. When I asked him, why would god create a earth, 6500 years ago, with dinosaur bones, and whale bones in the desert, and layers of rock, with fossils…
His answer: “Some things you just must believe on faith” so, the Christian to me, is not retarded, he has just been fed a line of BS his whole life, he just believes it as is… for a Christian to show disbelief, it is considered a let down of their faith, and a weakness…
I think, the church he was going to at the end [78 years old] is culpable for his death… for his belief was when he died, he was going to a better, special place…so he ate and ate, and never exercised…I am not making it up, he died in a “All you can eat” buffet line, grabbed his plate, and wham he was gone…
I kinda think, at the end of his life, he was in denial and looked forward to going to heaven… which makes his church, and religion responsible [in my eyes] for his early death…

scam, scam and more scam..

[video=youtube;M9w7jHYriFo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M9w7jHYriFo#t=28[/video]

Greatest I am said:

The Pope was correct of course, in the esoteric sense, butyou will note in this link below that the right wing Christians as well asCatholics will not let go of the place of torment because they have learned tohate the other tribes so much they look forward to watching them burnpointlessly from their perch in heaven. Quite sick that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY&feature=player_embedded

Literalist believers love to hate.

Regards
DL

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Group mind. Happens everywhere. I was brought up Catholic and no such thing was ever present in anyone's ideas. Could be that my experience was more liberal than others, I dunno. There's a shtload of finger pointing in every walk of life.

Am I god, for it is I who creates and destroys. Reality is but a thin veil, obscuring the true vastness of consciousness.

eye exaggerate said:

Group mind. Happens everywhere. I was brought up Catholic and no such thing was ever present in anyone's ideas. Could be that my experience was more liberal than others, I dunno. There's a shtload of finger pointing in every walk of life.

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True but it is not usually based on institutionally embedded lies. Regards DL

MojoRison said:

Am I god, for it is I who creates and destroys. Reality is but a thin veil, obscuring the true vastness of consciousness.

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Yes you are in the esoteric sense and in reality because no one but yourself can make you voluntarily do anything. You can be your highest ideal if you choose to be. Regards DL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Greatest I am said:

Yes you are in the esoteric sense and in reality because no one but yourself can make you voluntarily do anything. You can be your highest ideal if you choose to be. Regards DL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

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In the YouTube list there were his other videos. "Crucifixion is in your skull". I've talked about that here before. Golgotha, the place of the skull. Above that it would appear that there is nobody...erm, no body.