are people who truly belive the bible mentaly retarded?

Zaehet Strife said:

I think they are scared, just like the rest of us. But instead of facing that fear as individuals, they hide from the fear, push it as far away from them as they can. Those of us who face our fears are not afraid to say the words "I Don't Know" those who hide claim to know things that they really do not.

I think it is fear, that drives religion. It all depends on how courageous we are in the face of the unknown. We have two choices. Accept we do not know and continue to live and search despite our ignorance. Or pretend that we do and continue to live a stagnant and unchanging life. Either way, none of us knows any more than the other can... but many of us can spot out the liars.

I think embarrassment is they key obstacle to admitting to ourselves that we might be wrong about something we fought with so much passion to believe. (Saying this as an ex-indoctrinated christian)

Eat fifteen grams of mushrooms by yourself... you'll know what i mean about not being able to tell what is real and what is not, what is true and what is false, what is knowledge and what is ignorance, the true and unstoppable fear of not knowing... tell you fucking what. I'll never eat mushrooms again after that shit.

To exist within the actual reality of ignorance is too much for me, eight hours is long enough for a lifetime.

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Fear for sure. But it goes deeper I think into out tribal instincts. I really do not think that most believers are believers. I get that from my own experience from being born into R C and seeing that truth in those around me then and that view is bolstered by things like the following. [video=youtube;iV2VjdpVonY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY[/video] P. S. Good to see that you can actually think before putting a reply. I was starting to wonder after some of your other, ahh, attempts. Regards DL

GreyLord said:

Zaehet christianity IS a doctrine of fear. "Agree with us or you'll go to hell for eternal torment, no 2nd chances" haha "Oh & btw, our god is a god of love, unless you piss him off, or your gay...read the fine print." haha

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[video=youtube;SF6I5VSZVqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc[/video]

Greatest I am said:

P. S. Good to see that you can actually think before putting a reply. I was starting to wonder after some of your other, ahh, attempts. Regards DL

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Really? Didn't you just join RIU like two weeks ago dude? lol

If you want to sound like the greatest, i would advise proofreading the syntax of your sentences before you click that reply button.

Spend enough time in this subforum and i'm sure you'll figure out who the quacks are, the jury is still out on you though buddy. Regardless, welcome, glad you could join us. Hope you can offer all of us some sweet info and ideas to swim through.

Regards ZS <---LOL!

1 word. FEAR. It will make you believe anything and do anything. Everything we do as humans is fear based and was bred into us. Take some time to sit down with yourself and listen to yourself and ask yourself questions and be honest koz there's nobody with you judging you and listening. Ask yourself questions and notice the trend of fear that's installed in your answers.

Zaehet Strife said:

Really? Didn't you just join RIU like two weeks ago dude? lol

If you want to sound like the greatest, i would advise proofreading the syntax of your sentences before you click that reply button.

Spend enough time in this subforum and i'm sure you'll figure out who the quacks are, the jury is still out on you though buddy. Regardless, welcome, glad you could join us. Hope you can offer all of us some sweet info and ideas to swim through.

Regards ZS <---LOL!

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Damn, you are the second one who does not like the way I write my French thinking in English. I asked the other if he wanted to do a quick critique of proof read of something I have after he went up and down my back but he just disappeared. Bummer. So I do not know if he knew what he was talking about or not. I think that I have one of my sweetest O P to date and admit that I am not sure if I like how it is put together or not. I have the logical points but do not know if they flow as well as they could. I think you will be tickled by the theme. If you want to opine on it then P M me and I will send it to you. It is not particularly long so I don't think a lot of time is involved. Let me know. Regards DL

brotes grandes said:

1 word. FEAR. It will make you believe anything and do anything. Everything we do as humans is fear based and was bred into us. Take some time to sit down with yourself and listen to yourself and ask yourself questions and be honest koz there's nobody with you judging you and listening. Ask yourself questions and notice the trend of fear that's installed in your answers.

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If you are talking the sheeple, I agree. As a goat I would say that your words do not apply to me. Regards DL

Greatest I am said:

If you are talking the sheeple, I agree. As a goat I would say that your words do not apply to me. Regards DL

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I am not knocking you at all.We are all the same mate you and I ,jim down the road and Nicole next door. All humans are the same and function on what we were born with. You are human like me so you bleed,you cry,you hurt,you want,you yern,you wipe your ass like everyone else on EARTH and you are born into the 3rd dimension and unless you raise your vibrations enough and can move into the fourth then 5th dimension you will die in this the 3rd dimension and always be in the cycle of birth death as humans know it. GL

brotes grandes said:

1 word. FEAR. It will make you believe anything and do anything. Everything we do as humans is fear based and was bred into us. Take some time to sit down with yourself and listen to yourself and ask yourself questions and be honest koz there's nobody with you judging you and listening. Ask yourself questions and notice the trend of fear that's installed in your answers.

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I tend to agree for the most part. Why do i eat, the fear that if i don't i might starve. Or... just hungry, but why? Because our body is telling us if we do not eat, we will feel pain. As we fear pain, most of us do, which is why we shy away from it for the most part. Why go to work, why go to the bathroom, why do this or that? Most of it is based on fear of what might happen if we either do, or don't do something.

But what about doing something out of love, compassion or empathy? Does that even exist? What we think we do out of empathy, is it because we genuinely feel empathetic? Nothing but love and compassion? Or do we do it because we empathize with the fear that is being felt by the other, and try to ease the fear being felt by the person we are trying to help.

I like to think that when i help someone, i do it because it makes me feel good... rather than based on fear. The other day i was eating out at the pizza hut buffet with my girl, the people next to us were kinda worn down, southern type if you know what i mean. They all ate a shit ton of food and got a bunch of drink refills, as they left they didn't leave a tip, but a man came walking back and threw a dollar on the table. I thought to myself, what fucking assholes! For real? They are gonna leave that and just split? So i snatched out my wallet, grabbed a five out and set it on the table next to the the other bill. I don't think anyone saw me, and it doesn't matter either.

I like to think i did that out of the kindness in my heart and how it would make that girl feel when she went back to that table expecting next to nothing finding something quite enticing awaiting her... rather than the idea of doing it out of fear.

It's a great question, and awesome idea to think about, how we derive our behaviors and why we do what we do, when we do it.

Great post Brotes. Got me thinking.


---Greatest, i guess if you want to pm me a link to your awesome thread starter i'll check it out on my down time if you want.

Zaehet Strife said:

I think they are scared, just like the rest of us.

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Speak for yourself mate I may well have rational fear but that does not extend to worrying about my soul. I do not fear death [not looking forward to the process tho..].

Yeah I relate to the embarrassment. I now think that an organised belief is just part of our journey...one needs to understand basic math before one can relate to algorithms for example....breaking free of indoctrination [which is not easy for most, if anyone.] is a sign of progression, spiritually speaking. There's no need to be embarrassed, rather, you should pat yourself on the back for using your intellect & common-sense to do something that many are unable or unwilling to do. Breaking through the fear to even question ones christian indoctrination is the 1st & hardest step.

'The Truth shall set ye free' Amen brother

GreyLord said:

I may well have rational fear but that does not extend to worrying about my soul. I do not fear death [not looking forward to the process tho..].

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Have you ever thought about what this is. Ever wondered if this could be a dream? A hell? A perpetual repetitive purgatory? Have you ever come to terms with the fact that all of these ideas could be true? That we really don't know what this is, or what happens when we die? That souls may exist, as well as damnation, or any other metaphysical or theological idea anyone has thought up since the evolution of the human brain.

Fear comes from not knowing. Not knowing whether or not someone is going to hurt you, what is going to happen to someone you care for, or you. Not knowing what is lurking in the dark, not knowing whether or not you are safe, or if someone is watching you. Not knowing what happens when you die, or what this reality is.

I do not fear death, i because i know it will take me someday. That is something i know, something concrete, something i am certain of, that some day... i WILL die. The fear though, the fear that creates religion, that embalms spirituality and any other form of made up truth... is the fear of the afterdeath. Something we are not certain of... something that we do not know.

There are two things that will happen. We either cease to exist (my most favored idea) or that we continue to exist in some way, shape or form.

It's easier to think we cease to exist, because that's it, were done, fold, gone, non-existent, no further thought necessary.

But to grasp onto the thought that we continue to exist, i think is much more of a burden. Because then you have to try to figure out what happens to you. Where do you go, will it be painful, scary, pleasant, boring, fulfilling, the same thing over and over again? Now there are an infinite amount of ways you could exist. What idea will you pick? How do you justify believing in an idea if you cannot be certain whether or not it is true? If you know your idea may be wrong?





There is a way, you can pretend to not be afraid of afterdeath, you can pretend to know what happens to your individuality after you die, that's the only way. You can pretend you know you cease to exist, or you can pretend you know you continue to exist. Either way, it is a lie which does one thing... it shields you from the truth, it shields you from the fear of not knowing what is going to happen to you...





But me? Me... i am just so tired, so damned tired of pretending..

For fear [haha] of provoking ridicule in my direction.......I don't know what you mean by 'pretend'? It sounds like you replaced your indoctrination with doubt. The bible says to build your house on rock, not sand. I was always taught that if I questioned the bible, the churches interpretation of said book or the basic tenets of that gross religion, it meant I 'lacked faith'. Without 'faith' [in this context, faith equates to ignorance] one was doomed to eternal torment. This fear kept me in a sort of limbo, I couldn't stomach the christian crap yet I ignored reading, contemplating or discussing other realities. It's a very long story but I finally came to the conclusion that God was either a god of love or an arsehole who smites those who refuse to believe in silly nonsense. If it was the latter then I'm fucked either way. So I started to rebuild the foundations of my belief system from scratch. [It's funny that once I made that decision it was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. I felt free.] I read, I meditated, I discussed , I annoyed those around me with my single minded mission to find 'the Truth'. Until eventually I realised that I would be learning till the day I die, that in this level of progression [3rd dimension] no-one has or knows all the answers, that I'm a part of something bigger, that I'm a Spirit [conscious energy] having a physical experience, that I'm responsible for my own actions & those actions determine my experiences, that this 'life' is not my 1st nor will be my last incarnation, that I will keep coming back to try again if I fuck up this one. Iow I learned enough to know that I'm 'safe', not my physical body that is but my Spiritual body, my soul [for those who don't know the difference - the soul is a spirit having a physical experience]
I'm very content in what I believe, there is no need for others to agree or the need to force what I believe onto others. Although I'm not Wiccan I adhere to their creed 'If it harms none do as you will' & the old favourite to 'treat others the way I wish to be treated'.
If you don't mind me saying ZS, you need to fill the void left by your indoctrination.
PS I agree, fear on a spiritual level IS a lack of knowing.

Greatest I am said:

Damn, you are the second one who does not like the way I write my French thinking in English. I asked the other if he wanted to do a quick critique of proof read of something I have after he went up and down my back but he just disappeared. Bummer. So I do not know if he knew what he was talking about or not. I think that I have one of my sweetest O P to date and admit that I am not sure if I like how it is put together or not. I have the logical points but do not know if they flow as well as they could. I think you will be tickled by the theme. If you want to opine on it then P M me and I will send it to you. It is not particularly long so I don't think a lot of time is involved. Let me know. Regards DL

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As the one who you PM'd, I don't have time to critique your shit.

I'm in school full time, have a job, two dogs, and a very time demanding hobby.

I told you what didn't make sense earlier. If you want someone to critique your writing word by word, sentence by sentence; go get a degree.

You'll have academics picking your writing apart daily that get paid to do so.

brotes grandes said:

I am not knocking you at all.We are all the same mate you and I ,jim down the road and Nicole next door. All humans are the same and function on what we were born with. You are human like me so you bleed,you cry,you hurt,you want,you yern,you wipe your ass like everyone else on EARTH and you are born into the 3rd dimension and unless you raise your vibrations enough and can move into the fourth then 5th dimension you will die in this the 3rd dimension and always be in the cycle of birth death as humans know it. GL

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If we are all the same then none of us are special. Tell that to your loved ones. The issue was fear, not where you took it. Regards DL

Beefbisquit said:

As the one who you PM'd, I don't have time to critique your shit.

I'm in school full time, have a job, two dogs, and a very time demanding hobby.

I told you what didn't make sense earlier. If you want someone to critique your writing word by word, sentence by sentence; go get a degree.

You'll have academics picking your writing apart daily that get paid to do so.

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Ah, the one who would not chance putting his money where his mouth was. You have lots of time for everything but that. Come back when you mature child. Regards DL

Zaehet Strife said:

---Greatest, i guess if you want to pm me a link to your awesome thread starter i'll check it out on my down time if you want.

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Now that I see a bit more of your character and soft heart as compared to my harder one, you just might be the ticket to make the O P more palatable as some will already think it --- out there. Perhaps you will be able to accentuate the love potential of what I said. Hard to say from my bias just what it needs. It is on the way. Regards DL

Greatest I am said:

Ah, the one who would not chance putting his money where his mouth was. You have lots of time for everything but that. Come back when you mature child. Regards DL

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It's not my job to edit and proof read your work. Calling me a child because I don't want to coddle your sorry ass is as dumb as your original, nonsensical post.


Maybe you should take this to heart;

[video=youtube_share;jmbOWm_UqYo]http://youtu.be/jmbOWm_UqYo[/video]

P.S. I did point out some of the shit that didn't make sense, you just didn't seem to care....

GreyLord said:

For fear [haha]I'm a part of something bigger, that I'm a Spirit [conscious energy] having a physical experience, that I'm responsible for my own actions & those actions determine my experiences, that this 'life' is not my 1st nor will be my last incarnation, that I will keep coming back to try again if I fuck up this one. Iow I learned enough to know that I'm 'safe', not my physical body that is but my Spiritual body, my soul [for those who don't know the difference - the soul is a spirit having a physical experience]
I'm very content in what I believe

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Isn't it funny, that our beliefs almost always coincide with our deepest desires?

It doesn't matter how passionate you are about your beliefs in souls, afterlife, reincarnation. It doesn't matter how hard you believe, how much you tell yourself you are certain that these things exist, and that existence and reality is exactly what you think it is... the fact will always remain;

That you could be wrong, about everything you believe. The possibility that this is a dream, purgatory, a form of hell... any idea you can come up with, will always exist.



Like i said before, and i mean no offense, the only way you can avoid the fear of not knowing our most desired unanswered questions in this existence, is to pretend you have them. You can tell yourself you know you have a soul, but you don't know that for sure. You can tell yourself when you die you will reincarnate into another form, but you don't know that for sure. You can tell yourself anything you want in order to fill the void of ignorance that everyone on this planet has, but i don't think lying to yourself is going to help you, or anyone one else for that matter.

But you must do what you need to in order to feel happy, to not feel scared, some people have to barrow ideas from others or make them up in order to be happy in an existence filled with unanswered questions.

And as it is, i am quite content and happy living my life accepting the fact that i don't know certain things, and certainty is not a privilege i can afford if i want to be honest with myself about everything.





If there is anything you can take away from this, just know one thing; You Could Be Wrong.
But most people just choose to ignore that fact, and i'm almost positive you are one of those people.
No offense, there is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

No offense taken ZS. I was in hospital for 6 months 13 years ago & given 3 years to live. That's the test. During that time I saw genuine fear in the eyes of elderly men who maybe for the 1st time in their life were contemplating their existence. I witnessed some fascinating things that confirmed what I know. One old WW2 digger knew the night of his own death. I had seen him say goodnight to his family for six nights. He was always smiling as they went, happy to see them go happy in the knowledge that he would see them the next day. The 7th night, as he was saying farewell, he became quite distraught, crying & hugging, repeating "I love you" as if he new it was his last good-bye. After lights were out I awoke to him talking to the old guy in the bed next to him, opposite from me, & the old guys awoken with the digger sitting on his bed saying "Sorry to wake you Bob, I just wanted to introduce you to my army buddies". I called the nurses as I could see he was confused as to why his buddies were being ignored. I firmly believe that the diggers close mates had come to meet him to escort him 'home' ['in my fathers house there are many rooms] I could not return to sleep & lay awake. An hour later I looked over at the old digger & he seemed to have a very dim light over him. I turned to push the nurse button & when I looked back the light was gone. He had just passed.
Now people can say what they like but that experience cannot be taken from me. I have witnessed many many incidents that are part of my experience. I worked as a funeral director for several years & unwittingly communicated with the deceased that I was preparing for viewings. I've experienced things through spiritual churches & ceremonial magick. I have meditated, studied & contemplated for over twenty years. And that's the point Z S, they are MY experiences, MY learning, MY understanding. I could write a book on the subject but I wont because my collective experiences have formed my individual perspective. It would convince few to change their belief. I could share my experience but most aren't ready to accept that there's more to reality than what you can see or touch. "All things exist, but man knows of them only so far as he is educated to comprehend them."

No offense meant when I say this Z S but do you really want to be one of those people who tell everyone else that they're wrong yet when asked the answer they have nothing?
Learn to meditate - the answer are indeed within. 'Seek & ye shall find, ask & it will be answered' [a natural law of the Universe] Just ask if you'd like me to recommend any books.

Understand, i'm not saying you ARE wrong, i am trying to help you accept the fact that you COULD be wrong... and when someone refuses to acknowledge that fact, and actively ignores it, it only depicts the desperation that the belief be held as a certainty.

Why would someone ignore the fact that their beliefs hold the possibility of being wrong? Because it's scary. It's easier to believe with certainty you know what happens when you die, rather than accept that the ideas you have about an afterlife very well could be wrong.

Again, not saying that you are wrong, just that to ignore the fact you could be... not only closes the door for further philosophical thought about it, but also merits a lie to oneself.

For all you know this is a computer generated dream world, or a hell in which we continue to reincarnate as the same person living the same life over and over again, or an exam we must take in order to get into heaven, or a test to see if our "souls" are ready to become enlightened and enter a higher level existence, or... our individuality and ourselves may cease to exist.

All of these possibilities exist, and there are an infinite amount of them, any thought count's as a possibility. How can anyone be certain which is correct and which is false? How do we know that when we have these experiences, we don't just automatically associate them with whatever belief system we have picked up? With so many different variations of religion in this world, to go prancing around saying you have found the truth with certainty, anyone who doesn't just outright agree with you will be able to call your bluff.

It is easier to fool yourself than to fool another.

I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong dude, just trying to help a fellow human animal understand the flaws in the human psyche, that all possabilites exist... even the possibility that you very well could be wrong.

It is infinitely more honest to say to others and to yourself; "I think we have souls, i think reincarnation is true and i think i will enter a different existence when i die."
Rather than trying to tell yourself and others that you know, that you are certain. But you believe what you want man, everybody does.