Yeah I hope the Kish tightens up the god bud. we'll see
always same strains suggested.
- Thread starter trapper
- Start date
someone was saying people don't use subcools strains in crosses, outlaw uses sub's double purple doja for magic merlin, dojaberry, and east coast purple diesel. and as someone else said, i, like many, am going by what i've read, in saying that its dank
edit: ok now i'm not even sure sub worked on that cross directly
edit: ok now i'm not even sure sub worked on that cross directly
trapper
Well-Known Member
i have the reeferman burmeese going now,i have had ambrosia,noy a great yielder but tons of flavor and very potent.we will see how the burmeese does,im doing all the old BC strains,i believe in what DJ,steve,chimera and reeferman did over thier,you should read DJ work on breeding,it will blow your mind,then you compare him to the new so called breedes,we wouldnt have the flavors and colors and potency without them.the sweetpink grapefruit is one im fooling with,i want the shiskaberry,you have to admitt breeder steve had some big ass nuggets with tons of flavor and no slouch in the potency department.
trapper
Well-Known Member
i said that other breeders dont use subcool,but i dont know who outlaw is.but i was saying that subcools breeding has no vision or intense breeding program,it is pollenateing name strains,and i never said their was anything wrong with it as long as we still have a new breed of DJ,chimeras,shantibaba,reeferman,simon and luc,or sam the skunk man.as long as we still have breeders with a vision of their work,willing to work on keeping things referanced,and just just not crossing dank f2,or f1,s.it will be okay.it is amazeing what you can find in crossing the f2,s.but i get dank weed anytime i cross ak and godbud,or any other top strains,it really is not difficult to achieve dank buds from pollenateing 2 good strains,but that dont make me a breeder,im a pollen chucker and not a very good one.fdd did it so i tried it,the rest is history.i will get a good camera in 2 weeks ans show you resin on resin from my chump breeeding program.and most of the seeds were $50 averagesomeone was saying people don't use subcools strains in crosses, outlaw uses sub's double purple doja for magic merlin, dojaberry, and east coast purple diesel. and as someone else said, i, like many, am going by what i've read, in saying that its dank
edit: ok now i'm not even sure sub worked on that cross directly
yeah man not really debating the rest just saying that outlaw seems to use the purple doja alot in his crosses and his stuff is dank i do know what your talking about, i read somewhere that the only other person that shanti believes works as hard as him is simon. I was simply saying that outlaw uses the doja to create dank from what i hear, maybe not not worked like some od shanti's but dank, i just got the impression that you thought no other breeder's thought much of tga hence not using his strains just thought i'd point that one out.
freddiemoney
Well-Known Member
When you get that new camera I'd be really interested in seeing some shots of the Burmese when it's going strong. I have a few Ambrosia plants flowering right now, might be their last run in the room. I'll put up a few pics when they really get going, to see how close they were to yours.
Punk
Well-Known Member
Most of the strains for sale are unstable, and I think that's why people tend to flock to to a few big names, like your white widow, big bud, NL, etc.
When I say unstable, I mean strains that are really touchy to nutes and ph, where if it's not juuuuuust perfect, it yellows up and all the leaves fall off, or whatever. These seed companys come out with tons of fancy names for a alleged 'new strain', when in fact, you're just growing a big problem child.
When I say unstable, I mean strains that are really touchy to nutes and ph, where if it's not juuuuuust perfect, it yellows up and all the leaves fall off, or whatever. These seed companys come out with tons of fancy names for a alleged 'new strain', when in fact, you're just growing a big problem child.
HHF
Well-Known Member
Hi, well, hmm, you have some things screwed up here friend.
A F1 can only be stable, as it should be used in truth to mean a cross of stable (IBL/Landrace/Heirloom Farmed line) lines. Only if you cross stable lines will you get true F1 vigour, Heterosis. True F1 vigour is hardly ever seen in modern breeding works, as not many have anything IBL'd to work with. This was not the same back in the day when most of these modern legends where built of course.
If the two lines you cross into your F1 are stable, you will see stable offspring. In the F2 generation, of course you will see wide variations, hence F2's of F1's are wonderful sources of new traits for breeders to work with brought about in genetic recombinations in the F2 generation.
F2's should always be made from elite(s) x elite(s) from high seed numbers started.
What your usually growing is a strain crossed and recrossed in a closet somewhere, usually made by someone with little to no knowledge of actual plant biology or breeding. Hence, you are getting strains that are resistant to high ferts and seed-makers are breeding and selecting for this trait! LOL at those Snakeoil salesmen!
Good genetics do all the work and shine without someone trying to fit a turbo on them.
Also, strains that are stable might not all show identical plants if the breeder has developed the IBL by population conditioning. Using many plant phenotypes in the population but selecting for potency at all times in the generations. Ie, the line is stable for potency and its quality of highs in all plants, male and females, but shows still differing phenotypes past the F6 generation.
IBL's like this (read the old farmed line heirlooms and landraces farmed in situ and just 1 or 2 modern IBLs) are the most valuable breeding tools of all, they where built with serious skills and love. Sadly, doing such work is the realm of real plant breeders, seed makers will not ever go there as it meets with none of their goals. For real breeders, it meets with all of their goals..
Totally agree really, you can make just as good strain as any other seedmaker in your environment. As you are aware, most are just X'ing clusterfucks and clusterfuck x clusterfuck is most likely to make you some nice shiny new clusterfuck.
I don't mean that dis respectively to you, I do mean it disrespectfully to all those who hoodwink noobz into thinking that is plant development, or real breeding.
There is, of course, a market for such work, people would like to try to taste and experience what these 'named clones' are like. But these seeds should not be expensive ffs, as any noob with the clone (no disrespect to anyone) could do the same work. These type of seeds should never be expensive, as they take NO time to make, NO time to market, there is NO risk. Never pay a lot for them and do not be fooled by the pretty pics from a Seedmakers selection. Wait, see the customers grows. If its good then, the same as the description, etc, buy it.
Hobby breeding should definately be encouraged through the sharing of real IBL's, Landraces and the deep level of information that comes from experience of working with these lines. If you are interested in hobby breeding, making wonderful seeds that will take you forward. I would suggest seeking out unpolluted landraces and true IBL's with pictorial, written and breeder information on how they achieved their goals and what those goals where.
Then you will know how traits came about, which ones are stable and how the carry forward into a amazing journey through our favourite botanical.
Peace!
HHF
Cyproz
Well-Known Member
yea i recently discovered breeders choice and as soon as i get some extra doe i wanna buy some of that kush # 1, looks likes some good stuff.very nice post HHF, thats Hothouse right? I'm very tempted to buy some of that bigsur holy wreck on breedbay, your prices have got to be the best i've seen mate
hey HHF whats your website again, i forgot it.
HHF
Well-Known Member
hehe, yeh. I agree..glad you do friend. We have a lot of breeding clones selected over the years, so its nice to make seed that we can offer to folk at good prices..its fun! That line is pretty wonderful I think, very oldskool quality of high, long lasting, no ceiling and wanders all over the place. Really nice, at any price.very nice post HHF, thats Hothouse right? I'm very tempted to buy some of that bigsur holy wreck on breedbay, your prices have got to be the best i've seen mate
Hey bro, ain't no way your going to tempt me into spamming, lol!
I made a vow.
Peace all, HHF
The Warlord
Well-Known Member
pm me or hhf might have already sent you one for the website addy. I'd tell ya here but if he won't Im not gonna either...........lol
trapper
Well-Known Member
HHF quote:I don't mean that dis respectively to you, I do mean it disrespectfully to all those who hoodwink noobz into thinking that is plant development, or real breeding. ...........believe me i know that what im doing is not breeding in the true sence,i do get great bud,but their is no long term vision.that is why i tip my hat to those great breeders who have done so much for the cannabis community.i have read much of DJ work,it is astounding the effort time and planning he put in,i know blueberry didnt happen by accident.i was reading some of steve of spice of lifes breeding habits and i can see sweettooth never happend by accident,that is some big budded sweet tasting bud,is it super potent,well it plenty potent enough and it is consistent.i hope their are new such type breeders for the future,not pollen chuckers.
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
at some point i will be sending out some seeds mostly to local dispensaries they will be good and all based on the newest and most sought after strains. when i feel they are ready and tested and stable enough for various uses they will show up. first some freebies will be given to accomplished growers who can do grow logs and take progressive pics of there progress. coming soon hopefully if all goes well.
trapper
Well-Known Member
im sure a lot of breeders will use the name TGA,s so and so crossed with our so and so.Why wouldnt they,tga has built up one hell of a marketing plan,you see him in more publications then any other seed maker.so it would be wise to captalise on his mastery of marketing,like people did with bog.But that means what to the long term dirction of cannabis?
Brick Top
New Member
It wouldnt mean anything to the long-term direction of cannabis, or maybe better said it would likely mean extremely little to the long-term direction of cannabis.
　
Very many bean buyers are flavor of the month freaks and they get tired of things quickly and something else catches their eye and where they go so follows the direction of cannabis.
　
In many cases breeders and breeding only lead(s) in the short-term.
　
Look at the White phase, or craze. White Widow knocked the herb world on its butt and for a while most everything was a new white strain that came from White Widow crossed with something else or one of the original spawn of White Widow crossed with something else or was just each breeders own knockoff version of White Widow.
Everything was White Something or Something White or something had a snowy or icy sounding name and the strain came from one or more white strains
　
You dont see that being played up as much now as in the past because its last weeks news to many bean buyers.
　
It was very similar with Northern Lights. Most everyone used it in a cross and then there were the knockoffs and those who came out with a claimed new and improved version and added a number after the name.
　
But you just dont seem to see that being pushed any longer. Its reruns and many people want live.
　
That opens the doors for other breeders, and not that I am rating or ranking anyones gear here but all it really takes for that breeders gear to become the flavor of the month and sell like hotcakes is to be as good as its competitors, not better than, only as good as its competitors but be different in some unique way, even if only slightly unique, and the breeders line will become all the rage for a while anyway until the same cycle repeats itself with the next breeder.
　
The cycle can hit really top-notch breeders and it can hit average skilled breeders and sometimes some that might not by all be considered to be truly professional breeders.
It is hit and miss and it can be started by something that is in fact better or maybe is only just different but what is bad about it is when the following breeder line gets hot, sometimes the one that just cooled down is a bit better or even way better overall. But it just began to seem like leftovers to many buyers.
　
Being a breeder is like being the leader in a game of follow the leader and all the kids following you have ADD.
They will follow you for a while but not for all that long because something pretty or shiny will soon enough catch their attention.
Unfortunately that is largely what directs the future of cannabis.
HHF
Well-Known Member
Yes nice post Brick Top.
However I think you are referring to seedmakers, who by definition have to follow fashions. For real breeders work goes on the same, making IBL's to make real F1's to make elite selections in F2s and onwards. Same old, same old.
This is usually where the genetic materials for the ''new things'' really come from, many are never rewarded by more than the love they share for and with the plant. Its enough for some. So while things may hit big name breeders market shares, new flavours coming and going, somewhere in the shadows there are people doing real breeding works. Always has been the same, the whole of the Dutch seed business is built upon the works of oldskool breeders, they get their names scrubbed out and forgotten by most, but their legacy to the world lives on and can be seen by those with open minds.
Peace, respect.
HHF
trapper
Well-Known Member
i believe a lot of the major work is done by breeders who dont want the fortune and fame,i remember my aunt living in a rooming house while working at the salvation army for 30 years 10 hours a day 7 days a week,i believe cannabis has those same special people working on genetic selection ,i was debateing someone on bogs genetics compared to reeferman,when you look at the time and love needed to breed sativas you then can grasp the amount of work reeferman was involved in.but your right we really dont give credit were credit is due,but untill seed makers start telling us the straight goods about who is doing what we will never know.it is a dog eat dog bussiness with millions to be made so it is what it is.