A Challenge ...

medicineman

New Member
You can sum up libertarians with one word, Greed, They even admit it, Per Viredd on one of his posts, even though it is one of the seven deadly sins, they see no evil in greed. Look into their manifesto and see for your selves. it is all about individual liberty to screw whomever they can, sans taxes.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
Maybe the problem is the human species? :? Just a thought.

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~
Ive wondered the same thing, maybe there is no solution and there is just no way human kind can live together peacefully and we are doomed to destroy ourselves.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
You can sum up libertarians with one word, Greed, They even admit it, Per Viredd on one of his posts, even though it is one of the seven deadly sins, they see no evil in greed. Look into their manifesto and see for your selves. it is all about individual liberty to screw whomever they can, sans taxes.
I remeber the thread your speaking of, undertheice was claiming greed was a basic and necessary human instinct or something to that affect...which I dont think it is...I think it is a construct of society, I could be wrong though
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
You can sum up libertarians with one word, Greed, They even admit it, Per Viredd on one of his posts, even though it is one of the seven deadly sins, they see no evil in greed. Look into their manifesto and see for your selves. it is all about individual liberty to screw whomever they can, sans taxes.
Do you like having to pay exorbitant taxes? Do you like having to work 4 months out of the year for the gov't? Than on top of that, they tax me for everything I buy and because I own a car and other gay shyt like that. I don't understand why the gov't doesn't pay their selves, that would help boost the economy and they could help put money into circulation. Why even tell me I'm getting paid 15 dollars an hour when I only get to see 10? ~lol~ Does that make sense to anyone else besides me?

People are innately greedy to some extent, if you were not, than all the other greedy people would eat you alive. You have to protect what you have or others will feel free to walk all over you and take whats yours.

But, the difference in the pay rates between a worker and a CEO is absolutely ludicrous, but people are not obligated to work for anyone. Ultimately, the workers dictate the minimal wage, it just depends on how much they need it. If no one decided to work for a company because they are paying peanuts and expect blood from you than the company will surely go out of business from the lack of labor. Or they will have to pay more.

Just my opinions, anyways.

RON PAUL REVOUTION

~PEACE~
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
But, either way you look at it, the "rich" don't want to share their wealth with the "poor".. Its just the nature of the game, the rich want to further consolidate their wealth to their selves, and the poor get screwed in the process.....
You can sum up libertarians with one word, Greed....
I remember the thread your speaking of, undertheice was claiming greed was a basic and necessary human instinct or something to that affect...which I don't think it is...I think it is a construct of society, I could be wrong though
it's rather interesting that those who ascribe to so many of the ideologies of the self-described "party of the people" have such a low opinion of those people. have they forgotten, perhaps, that the rich are people as well? the three posts above are a perfect example of the elitism that permeates the beliefs of the left, that success somehow perverts all sense of right and wrong and that the freedoms of the wealthy are not deserving of the same protection as those less fortunate. any instance of charity from the rich is considered too little, too late and only the tyranny of the proletariat will cool their blood lust. perhaps we should erect a guillotine in the public square so they can savor the downfall of these enemies of the state.

only those of like mind are allowed to prosper, it seems. gone are the working class heroes of the left, replaced by the guilt ridden children of privilege, opportunistic political hacks and captains of industry seeking to make names for themselves as humanitarians. the fact that most of the leaders of the left are members of the idle rich seems to elude their followers. they seem oblivious to the hypocrisy of those who want everyone else to share the fruits of their labor while hoarding their own wealth. they seem blind to the idea that slavery, even the slavery of excessive taxation, toward any end is still slavery.

by the way hom36rown, i remember that thread too. it degenerated into an argument over semantics until i believe we agreed that it was a matter of degree and that self-interest (or some such thing) was perhaps a better term. would you agree that self-interest is a matter of instinct or are you amongst the deluded few who believe that altruism is the core nature of mankind?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
You can sum up libertarians with one word, Greed, They even admit it, Per Viredd on one of his posts, even though it is one of the seven deadly sins, they see no evil in greed. Look into their manifesto and see for your selves. it is all about individual liberty to screw whomever they can, sans taxes.
What amazes me about Med is his complete disdain for the only U.S. political party openly in favor of ending prohibition. It never ceases to make me chuckle when I hear a progressive drone on about Bush and Iraq. Meanwhile they stand perfectly mute on a war in its seventh decade. A war which has drained this country of blood and treasure which dwarfs the total number of lives lost and money spent on our Iraqi adventure. A war which has been directly responsible for a steady erosion of our civil liberties. Yet both major parties refuse to end this war. Why not? Government power increases with every law passed designed to reduce our liberty in the pursuit of a failed policy. A policy which pays off handsomely to the parties in power. A policy that is a tool of oppression.

Democrats, for the most part, don't have a problem in the world with Cannabis prohibition.
 
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hom36rown

Well-Known Member
by the way hom36rown, i remember that thread too. it degenerated into an argument over semantics until i believe we agreed that it was a matter of degree and that self-interest (or some such thing) was perhaps a better term. would you agree that self-interest is a matter of instinct or are you amongst the deluded few who believe that altruism is the core nature of mankind?
Youre right, I went back and checked and you did indeed say self interest would be a better term...my bad. I agree that self interest is a matter of instinct, most would say our most basic instinct is an innate will to live and survival is of course self interest...Nietzche claims that our most basic instinct is the will to power, so if you believe him, and he makes some compelling arguments, than I guess you could say greed is innate part of our being...buddah claims greed comes from equating possessions with happiness, and that would definitely be a construct of society...I dont know its complicated but yes I agree "self interest" is a matter of instinct
 

medicineman

New Member
Do you like having to pay exorbitant taxes? I don't, I pay my fair share. Do you like having to work 4 months out of the year for the gov't? Than on top of that, they tax me for everything I buy and because I own a car and other gay shyt like that. I don't understand why the gov't doesn't pay their selves, that would help boost the economy and they could help put money into circulation. Why even tell me I'm getting paid 15 dollars an hour when I only get to see 10? ~lol~ Does that make sense to anyone else besides me?

People are innately greedy to some extent, if you were not, than all the other greedy people would eat you alive. Greed is a learned trait. Kids are all about themselves but one the age of enlightenment comes, (to most people anyway) they learn to share. You have to protect what you have or others will feel free to walk all over you and take whats yours.

But, the difference in the pay rates between a worker and a CEO is absolutely ludicrous, but people are not obligated to work for anyone. Ultimately, the workers dictate the minimal wage, it just depends on how much they need it. If no one decided to work for a company because they are paying peanuts and expect blood from you than the company will surely go out of business from the (lack of labor.) (There is a labor glut, IE more people needing jobs than Jobs)(the ratio of CEO pay to employee pay is 375-1, before Bush, it was 30-1) Or they will have to pay more. Good luck with that

Just my opinions, anyways.

RON PAUL REVOUTION

~PEACE~
BTW look into a libertarian manifesto and see what it really means.
 
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ViRedd

New Member
BTW look into a libertarian manifesto and see what it really means.
Here it is in all of its glory, Med. Now how about breaking it down and then tell us what it "really" means. Thanks ...

http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

Table of Contents​
Preface.....................................................................................................vi
The Libertarian Heritage: The American Revolution and Classical
Liberalism ............................................................................................... 1
The Libertarian Creed ............................................................................... 21
Property and Exchange ......................................................................... 22
The State ............................................................................................... 45
Libertarian Applications to Current Problems .......................................... 71
The Problems ........................................................................................ 72
Involuntary Servitude............................................................................ 78
Personal Liberty.................................................................................... 93
Education ............................................................................................ 119
Welfare and the Welfare State ............................................................ 143
Inflation and the Business Cycle: The Collapse of the Keynesian
Paradigm ............................................................................................. 174
The Public Sector, I: Government in Business ................................... 198
The Public Sector, II: Streets and Roads ............................................ 205
The Public Sector, III: Police, Law, and the Courts ........................... 219
Conservation, Ecology, and Growth................................................... 247
War and Foreign Policy ...................................................................... 269
Epilogue .................................................................................................. 303
A Strategy for Liberty......................................................................... 304​
Index.................................................................................................... 330

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
That's like reading a treatise on how to eliminate the lower classes. Might as well start building the gas chambers and the ovens. It never ceases to amaze me that the rich actually see themselves as some sort of superior being. The elite class needs a comedown, down to the humanity level. I'm pretty sure one is coming. It's just a matter of time. All you rich better than thou assholes better keep a vigil, might be someone sneaking up on you. Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep.
 

email468

Well-Known Member
Exactly, couldn't have portrayed you better myself.
Hey med - i have some legitimate questions for you - i'm honestly not baiting you or trying to get your dander up. I genuinely want to know since i am not very politically-savvy.

I have read you being called a lot of different "isms" but i would like to hear from yourself what you think the best form of gov't might be - and if any countries (past or present) are the closest to what you'd consider ideal?
 

medicineman

New Member
Hey med - i have some legitimate questions for you - i'm honestly not baiting you or trying to get your dander up. I genuinely want to know since i am not very politically-savvy.

I have read you being called a lot of different "isms" but i would like to hear from yourself what you think the best form of gov't might be - and if any countries (past or present) are the closest to what you'd consider ideal?
Well, I've already expressed my ideas on this, but it is something like this, Socialistic capitalism. encourage the employees to participate in the profits, This could be with a one time gift of X amount af shares once an employee has proved his/her worth and a profit sharing plan. Geeze in most big corporations, they could take 80% of the CEOs wages and bonuses and give every employee a pretty nice christmas bonus, I am not saying the management and owners shouldn't get a larger share, just not most of it. Workers deserve a living wage and a chance for retirement if they give honorable service to the corporation for a determined time. Corporations that do not make a profit, should be dismanteled (Ford GM Chrysler come to mind), they have seen the fuel crises coming for years snd should have had an affordable hydrogen hybrid or water car on the road for years. Small businesses could have a good employee employer relationship with profit sharing, If there is no profit then the business should shut down. I also believe a lot of small businesses would fare much better with a full on socialized medical plan, one payed for with taxes and ran by the federal government. I do not believe in war unless attacked, so my foriegn policy would preclude funding foriegn interests. With the military might we now posses, we could wipe out the world population 100 times over. It's time to get rid of 90% of the military budget and take care of our own population. I believe this could actually be the best country in the world, not the most feared and hated. Obama talks the talk, I guess we'll see if he walks the walk. I would also eliminate entirely all lobbying and make it a felony to interact with congress or any government emplayees for financial gain, and a felony to accept any money (perks) outside of your own and your governmental pay. This is not communism it is socialistic capitalism without the corruption. I realize this is the impossible dream, but it is my simple solution to a complex problem. You asked. Countries, I really don't know, maybe Sweden, France, Holland, even Germany is like a socialist republic I believe. I certainly don't want any dictators like Stalin, Bush, or a myriad of others who's names fail to come to mind
 
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