Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Outstanding rebuttal.
A Challenge ...
- Thread starter ViRedd
- Start date
email468
Well-Known Member
i hate trying to interpret biblical verses. since you quote me i have to ask - am i wise or am i the children? both? neither? the verse has nothing to do with me? or what? is just a non sequitur?
and if things are revealed to children wouldn't they actually be "the wise"? so is jesus making a little snide remark about the wise or just placating the children to make them think they are wise? and what did the wise do to piss off god so he hid stuff from them? was god pissed at them cause they were wise?
oh man - see what i mean? it took me forever to get through that book!
ViRedd
New Member
~lol~ Now I'm confused. 
I believe what Jesus was referring to is that the Spirit World defies logic, so it is hidden from the logical, set-in-concrete mind. Children take things at face value and are open to The Spirit. Therefore, for those who want to explore and discover the Spirit, they must become like little children.
Vi
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I believe what Jesus was referring to is that the Spirit World defies logic, so it is hidden from the logical, set-in-concrete mind. Children take things at face value and are open to The Spirit. Therefore, for those who want to explore and discover the Spirit, they must become like little children.
Vi
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email468
Well-Known Member
I know -- it is confusing.~lol~ Now I'm confused.
I believe what Jesus was referring to is that the Spirit World defies logic, so it is hidden from the logical, set-in-concrete mind. Children take things at face value and are open to The Spirit. Therefore, for those who want to explore and discover the Spirit, they must become like little children.
Vi
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like little children.. would that be gullible and naive? or impulsive and immature? on the other hand, if you want to hear the question "why?" endlessly repeated.... but i get the impression god doesn't like to hear the "why" question.. seems to be more of a "because i said so" kind of parent!
i've noted a few spots in the bible where god in jesus form does not care for the "wise". but i thought wise was a good thing.. hmmm....
ViRedd
New Member
No, that would be like little children before the heart is hardened by what the world has to offer ... negativism, defeat, false self worth, misplaced ego, consumerism, racism, bigotry, etc .... all of which closes the heart to the Spirit.
Vi
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email468
Well-Known Member
Oh right - gotcha - that would make sense from jesus's perspective.
I think we need to understand these things in order to find out how to minimize their impact or convert the impulse to something good - i mean to better ourselves and the world. but i guess making the world a better place was never really part or jesus's agenda - i think he was more concerned with the hereafter.
medicineman
New Member
"If you're not here after what I'm here after, you'll be here after I'm gone",~LOL~ A popular saying in High school in referance to dating girls. BTW, isn't it the there after since we're already here?
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email468
Well-Known Member
we could just call it the whatever - since we don't know what is going to happen.
or the no-moe-after - since after that - there ain't no moe.
medicineman
New Member
There are some that think they know. I don't, but I believe there is more than fade to black. We will all find out someday. So far, Jesus is the only one that has come back, if you believe that story, I do. It's called faith. It can't be physically explained. I also think that Muslims, Buddists, South American natives, etc will be included in on the hereafter. Prove me wrong.
email468
Well-Known Member
i thought we were joking around again but i think you may have lost your sense of humor on this site. can't prove a negative - but i'm guessing you already know that.
medicineman
New Member
I know you can't prove that there is no such thing as faith. You can't prove there is no higher power. You can't prove that death is all there is. I can't prove the opposite either, but you either believe or you don't. I'm guessing you're in the don't category. BTW, I don't see faith as a negative, actually just the opposite.
email468
Well-Known Member
Belief without evidence (faith) isn't inherently bad. I would make the case that you don't need to know for certain not to tease a tiger - you can take that on faith. But when you believe IN SPITE of the evidence - like i can tease the tiger cause my faith in god will protect me ... that or anything glorifying ignorance is extremely repellent to me.
As far as my beliefs go, as you say none of us knows so while I would call myself an atheist (I don't currently believe) - i am willing to be persuaded otherwise so I think that may put me in the agnostic camp. I would be more inclined to believe in some sort of higher power/inter dimensional being as the case for a biblical-style god with our foibles (he gets angry and curses people to everlasting torment) and emotions (jealous of other gods) is very weak indeed.
medicineman
New Member
I have a very hard time with the loving forgiving God and the vengeful hating God bullshit. If God created us, why would he want to destroy us. I'm of the "opinion" that every human will be allowed to enter whatever kingdom exists after death. An omnipotent, omniescent God could make all things perfect, and I believe every human has to learn how to get there. Here's an example of my theory. There are billions of inhabitable planets in the universe, this is the war planet. When your spirit leaves this earth, you move to another planet and start over untill you reach oneness with the creator. Maybe 50-10,000 lifetimes to get there. People like Jesus, Ghandi, Budda etc may make it in one lifetime. People like Hitler may take 10,000. I'm wondering if there are worse planets than the war planet earth?
email468
Well-Known Member
Obviously i have no idea - but if your theory is correct - i would think there are many, many far worse places than this. For all the pain and injustice there is a lot of pleasure and joy here.
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Anyone can postulate what they believe will happen after they die and no one will ever be wrong because ATM(at the moment) its impossible to determine what actually happens after a person dies(to the best of my knowledge anyways). So you can believe in reincarnation, heaven & hell(maybe purgatory too), or you just die and your mind/soul just disappears.....
I could say you will live inside your dreams for the rest of your "death", but if you believe in my religion you can have only positive dreams where you fly around(or not), eat your favorite food, see your favorite people, and be capable of your best dreams. And, if you don't believe in my religion you will live in your dreams and only have bad dreams of things you despise that makes you cry and have bad emotions. Am I wrong? Idk, how can you disprove or prove me right or wrong?
I believe that religion has capitalized(made money by you donating to them) on the fact that people want to live forever in eternal happiness and churches/religions(the Vatican to name one) have convoluted religion to work for them in these ways. Remember, this is just my belief ATM. So, someone tells you that they can save you for all of eternity if you only go to my church and believe in my religion. When you go to church you most likely feel obligated to donate money. Some churches obligate you to paying tithes tithes - Definitions from Dictionary.com and for you to pay 1/10th of your income... WTF is up with that? Don't we have enough taxes on us?
Just look at the Vatican. How much do you think they have capitalized off of people believing in them?
I believe Christianity was not practiced until ~300 years after the death of Jesus and the Romans were the first people to practice Christianity(I think). I don't understand why people would wait 300 years to practice this, if Christ came down to earth today and performed the miracles that he did back than, I would surely be a convert. So why the 300 year wait? That was a difference of aprox 15 generations(I'm using 20 years being equal to a generation).
If believing in something makes you happy than by all means, believe. Just don't be taken advantage of because of your (blind) faith.
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
I could say you will live inside your dreams for the rest of your "death", but if you believe in my religion you can have only positive dreams where you fly around(or not), eat your favorite food, see your favorite people, and be capable of your best dreams. And, if you don't believe in my religion you will live in your dreams and only have bad dreams of things you despise that makes you cry and have bad emotions. Am I wrong? Idk, how can you disprove or prove me right or wrong?
I believe that religion has capitalized(made money by you donating to them) on the fact that people want to live forever in eternal happiness and churches/religions(the Vatican to name one) have convoluted religion to work for them in these ways. Remember, this is just my belief ATM. So, someone tells you that they can save you for all of eternity if you only go to my church and believe in my religion. When you go to church you most likely feel obligated to donate money. Some churches obligate you to paying tithes tithes - Definitions from Dictionary.com and for you to pay 1/10th of your income... WTF is up with that? Don't we have enough taxes on us?
Just look at the Vatican. How much do you think they have capitalized off of people believing in them?
I believe Christianity was not practiced until ~300 years after the death of Jesus and the Romans were the first people to practice Christianity(I think). I don't understand why people would wait 300 years to practice this, if Christ came down to earth today and performed the miracles that he did back than, I would surely be a convert. So why the 300 year wait? That was a difference of aprox 15 generations(I'm using 20 years being equal to a generation).
If believing in something makes you happy than by all means, believe. Just don't be taken advantage of because of your (blind) faith.
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
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ViRedd
New Member
Forget "religion." The Spirit of God lives inside each one of us. God deals with us on an individual basis, its not "group think." In order to discover the "Inner Man," one must seek it, ask for it, and it will be revealed. The problem is, its way to simple and the mind of man is always trying to figure it out. Like He said: "What has been revealed to mere children is hidden from the learned."
One thing about God, He/She has a terrific sense of humor. Gotta watch that "agnostic" thing email ... God has a way of hitting you right between the eyes with a two-by-four with His presence. ~lol~
Vi
One thing about God, He/She has a terrific sense of humor. Gotta watch that "agnostic" thing email ... God has a way of hitting you right between the eyes with a two-by-four with His presence. ~lol~
Vi
medicineman
New Member
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
earlymorninstonepeomp
Well-Known Member
you see wat you get when you bring the "magic jesus" into a conversation !!! ??? i would love for one of the "christians" to tell me which "religion" will truely get me to "heaven"...lol,lol,lol,lol,lol,........ from what i have experienced each and every religion damns the other to "hell" based on their own "beliefs"/delusions. are the catholics right ???? how bout the "church of god" whackos ???? soooooo many choices !!!!! a virtual smorgassboard of bullshit. do you know how many people have died "in the name of god" ???? Yeah the jews suffered the Holocaust......but what about every other of the millions of people who have died as a result of someone else's "beliefs" ??? Remember the "Crusades" ???? Salem Witch Trials, American Indians ???? You see according to (pick a religion) you will go to hell because you aren't one of them. Go ahead and believe in god, jesus,mary, bhudda etc,etc,etc.....in order to get in you gotta completely buy in to one of the delusions out there. gimme a break. its all a huuuuuge fantasy used to play on the minds of people who just can't grasp the fact that there is no "big picture". Just little old you and a big bad world full of "thems"