21st Century Drip Using 320 GPH Pump

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
to each thier own, i personally like PF grows, i have to say they are not necessarialy the most effective, but PF is an innovator his ideas are feasible and can work. plus he is getting mass oxygen to the roots this way cant knock his style if it gets it done.
Not knocking pf grow if thats how it came off im truely sorry!
I think i just need to warm up to the idea :)
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
The box is often imperfect. I think outside the box, observing the weaknesses, and trying to resolve them, or before it was popular, experimenting with household led globes, which I was forced to do as I do not have the skillz to troubleshoot a diode build.

Case in point is the Halo Drip Rings, which is an awesome product that hardly anyone knows about: the inside holes should be drilled on a 10-15* angle instead of straight down. The curve of the 6" ring does slightly spread the 3 rows of holes but not enough to properly cover the surface of my 6" net pots, especially the ~2" diameter nearest the main stalk/tap root. Using a larger than drip pressure pump, + raising the ring ~4" above the media, I am better able to wet the area closest to the tap root- the money spot, especially for young seedlings/clones. This helps facilitate lateral root development throughout the net pot. My next grow using HDRs should show the benefit of their oversight.

HDRs are also available in 9", which, due to much larger diameter ring probably spreads the flow better
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
HO, I did a search to contact them- zip, no website on the bag they came in, either. Best I could do was leave message on the 2 posted videos by Monster Gardens-left them a message on their site

The good news is I have a drill bit that is the right size. The bad news is both my drill's rechargeable batterys died. Replacement from Harbor Freight was $14, but a whole new drill was only $17. Should be here by Monday latest. Not that it matters for this grow, but I use the drill often

Now that I have heat and humidity under control, when I walked into the room this morning I could smell the fragrance
:bigjoint::weed:
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Barely 4 full days since getting ac to this room buds have more than doubled

Also took a pic of the drip/spray ring in action. Look closely and you will see 3 different streams from the same area


IMG_1570.jpgIMG_1572.jpgIMG_1573.jpgIMG_1574.jpgIMG_1571.jpg
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Hey Poly, good to see you stop by. Yep, shit's pretty much under control now.

Although.... I need to decide ASAP which lights to use for flower in the led tent.

Do I buy more globes, or go T8? Both are unknowns. ARRRRRGGGGG

In any event I will be totally prepared for next grow- I hope
 

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Looking Good M8.

Like the coloring with the lights, adds a wicked perspective to the pics.

Thanx for the share.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I got my new drill and set about changing the angle of the inside holes in the Halo Drip Rings. Someone mentioned that he had to open all holes as they were clogging. I, too noticed this, so opened them all up with a small bit

While I was removing the rings, I noticed the main stem of the 2 top buds on the plant that I spread a couple days ago has split, so they are not getting as much nutes as they should- just when they need them the most:wall:

I cleaned the rez and upped ppm from ~ 800 to 1000+. I may only keep it there for 5-7 days, as buds are pretty well formed just fattening up now
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
There is much to love about HOT5s, especially the even spectral balance across a large area, but...

* 'Quality' aquarium bulbs are ~$25 (after shipping)
* Due to mercury, pose an environmental hazard
* Bulb life/output, although not horrible, declines after 4-5 grows

What to do?

LED Tubes are here

I just ordered 4 x 4ft @23w T8s (3 @ 2800-3200K + 1 @ 5500-6500K). Each has a separate outboard driver.

http://www.atgelectronics.com/tube/E58i-LED-Tube-(HO-Version).html

This is an easy-peezy DIY. Frame can be made from wooden 1x2-4s

The tubes will first be tested/used in my LED tent which is just beginning 12/12

Hope to see you there.

In the mean time, I am now feeding the girls 1000+ ppms every 25 minutes.

 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
After going on a parts hunt for my DIY frame, it occurred to me that someone should be making non-shunt T5-8 fixtures. I contacted one in Sanford FL. Will update once I hear from them

In the mean time new photos after 5 days of 1000ppm. Also, I increased feed frequency to every 20 minutes during lights on

It occurred to me to use my Sentinel MDT1 timer to turn the pump o/o. Now set at 10 seconds on/15 minutes off. At night I will unplug from MDT1 and plug into my analog timer so plants only get 1 feeding 6 hours after lights off


IMG_1579.jpg IMG_1579.jpg IMG_1581.jpgIMG_1580.jpg
 

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Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Is there anything to keep the roots moist during the off time? Most recirculating drip-ring systems I've tried and know of either run 24/7 or have at most 15-minute breaks between watering to prevent the roots drying out and dying. Usually, the more you water the better your results.

I love innovation and people who try new things, but the whole idea of trying different things is usually to find out what works best that hasn't been tried before.

Obviously I'm curious about the reasons behind your set-up and what you're hoping to achieve. Maybe if we all have a better understanding of that, we can try to help out by sharing experiences.

For example, if you really want to a run-to-waste system - and not a recirculating system - then I can understand a bit more why you are doing things the way you are. Of course, coco works much better in run-to-waste systems, but there might be a compromise with your system to make it work better than it is. Don't get me wrong - it is working the way it is - but we all like to make things better . . .

One tip I can offer is to use a bypass valve or tap to control your flow, like this one:




The way to set it up is similar to the diagram below. Ignore the arrows for a minute and imagine the shutoff valve in this diagram is your pump and the grass/ground is your reservoir. The pump pumps nutrient solution from the reservoir up to a T section, where one branch goes to the grow (right pipe) and the other to a tap (left pipe or "faucet"). Water takes the path of least resistance, so if you turn the tap on, water will flow out of it back into the reservoir. If you turn it off, the full force of the pump will go to your plants. If you turn it half-way, you can control the amount of flow. I do exactly this with my set-up (will try to take pix later). The water diverted back into the res has the added bonus of creating a waterfall effect which aerates your nutrient solution - which is why I don't run bubblers in my tank.




The other advantage of using a control valve is that as your reservoir runs low, gravity (the weight of water on top) does not assist the pump as much, so you find the water pressure from your pump drops as the water level in your res drops. This also makes it hard to control the exact flow. With the bypass system, you simply turn the tap off little by little to decrease the bypass and increase the pump flow to the plants. It would be quite easy to create a 24/7 drip system this way that drops just enough nutrient solution to feed your plants and keep the roots moist (in a "drip, drip, drip" way), while allowing your reservoir to hold enough water and also create a true run-to-waste system where the runoff is disposed of, but is not too excessive.

A bypass valve also allows you to control water flow without continually trying to guess what pump size you need for different applications.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
PC reading your reply, it seems you have not read my thread (see post 35), although it is a very brief explanation

This is my twist, taking cues from 4 grows using hpa. Here roots hang in no medium, they are fed periodically by atomizing mist heads. Timing is critical. If root chamber temps are high and feed intervals too far apart, then roots do not develop well. Neither does root hairs, which are what separates HPA from every other grow method. Root hairs are the key to explosive growth.

Alas, root hairs are extremely environment sensitive. Controlling the internal temp is impossible during 6 months+ of summer heat, unless the room is under 24/7 ac.

So I asked myself, how to create a RH friendly environment, using a more 'conventional' method.

Lava rock is the key, as it stays damp + has lots of nooks and crannies that trap droplets of nutes between feedings. BINGO. Root hairs have a vg environment upon which to thrive. Plants grow healthy. Nuggz are nice and fat

I ran an earlier version side-by-side with HPA on another grow site. This version is much better

I'm not having any problems with it, so do not need help.

Ideas of course are welcome
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I have read the thread, and watched the Youtube video - and in fact went back and read it again just to see if there was something I missed. What I see is a recirculating drip-feed hydro system - a system that's been around as long as hydro itself - so I'm trying to figure out what your "twist" is and why you are leaving 6 hours between waterings.

HPA usually stands for "high pressure aeroponics", but I don't see any high-pressure misters in that set-up. Unless "HPA" stands for something else? You also say it's run-to-waste - this is the run-to-waste section - but later mention the runoff drains back to your reservoir, which is a recirculating system.

Which is it?

Also, I never said you had a problem, I merely asked what you were trying to achieve, as whatever it is you're doing may already have been tried and tested before and you could perhaps learn something from those who have done it.

I've already given you an idea for regulating pressure flow in your system - an idea that is cheap and works - and would happily offer other ideas . . . if I knew exactly what it was you were trying to achieve. Of course, far be it for me to barge into your thread and offer advice. I'm not trying to impose.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
OK, just read your edited post with a bit more info . . . Root hairs are not the key to rapid growth: oxygen is. Root hairs are a by-product of a well-oxygenated system. There are a couple of reasons why aeroponics outperforms other systems, but the primary one is the amount of oxygen it provides for root growth. Secondly, with no medium to penetrate and all nutrient requirements delivered directly to the root zone, the roots are free to propagate and deliver water and nutrient to the rest of the plant, making them more efficient. Even soil plants have root hairs - they're just not as visible. Soil plants expend a lot of growth energy in root formation, finding and uptaking nutrients - which is where aeroponics (and other forms of hydroponics) has the advantage.

If the root zone has enough oxygen, the plant will actually respond faster to warmer temperatures both in the root zone and general environment. Warmth provides vigour - as it does just about all other living things. (I'm sure you know your chemistry/physics and why this is so.)

Conversely, the key to drip systems is in the capillary action of the hydroton that helps spread the nutrient evenly. Hydroton is also porous - if you were to magnify it, you'd see lots of holes and cervices for moisture to accumulate in - and doesn't break down as easily as lava rock. Trapped water stagnates and oxygen dissolves out of it, leading to anaerobic conditions that promote the growth of pathogens.

In any case, I'm not trying to criticise but merely point out that some of your ideas are possibly off the mark. In which case, a more thorough understanding of how plants grow and root systems develop would help in your design. For example, the more you water, the faster your plants will grow in a hydroponic system providing you deliver enough oxygen to the roots at the same time. I know this because I have proven it over many years with different hydro set-ups, including coco - which many people still believe needs to be dried between waterings!

There is one thing many sterile hydro set-ups also lack, and that is microbial interaction with the roots in the rhizoshphere (which is missing in hydro). Of course, that's another facet of growing I'm not going to go off on a tangent with, but hopefully it gives you a better picture of what's going on with your plants.

EDIT: At the start of your thread you were deciding what pump to use, and eventually came to the realisation the 320gph pump was too big (see, I did read your thread!). With a bypass valve, you could have bought whatever pump you wanted - taking into account any upgrades in future - and restricted the flow using the cheap and simple bypass method. That's why I threw that in there.

But I promise, I won't bother you with another long-winded post in your thread again! I just like that you're doing something different and wanted to help if I could.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
LOL! You've pulled a knuckleduster on a guy with a tank . . . I'm not one for pissing contests, but here's a glimpse of my harvest from last week: 3+ pounds under 1200w.

You don't know anything about oxygenation - that's plain to see - but certainly I wouldn't be bragging about 4.29 WET ounces from your last grow. My pounds are dried and trimmed, BTW.

You come across as quite rude and a little arrogant for someone who doesn't know much about growing. Especially when someone who's been doing it for 30+ years simply offers to help. I'll let your readers make up their own mind who they think knows what they're talking about.

Peace out :weed:











OK, I lied: the last two photos aren't from last week - they're from about six years ago - but consistency's what counts. Anyone can grow a couple of plants . . .
 
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