21st Century Drip Using 320 GPH Pump

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Way Kewl,

They look so healthy. What was the total time of 12/12, if I may ask?

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Clones moved to system

5/12 14/10
5/16 12/12 due to room temps mid 90s

Air Con fixed 6/4

~ 6/26 11/13
7/4 10/14
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Here's a mind blower.

This is the plant I harvested yesterday using my version of the Hydro Halo Drip Ring system. I plan to use it in my LED tent next grow

Curious to see how the rots grew in this new system, I separated the net pot lid from the Air Pot, and noticed that ZERO roots had grown down into the lava rock in the Air Pot!

Now there was an unintentional 4" air-gap between the Lava Rock inside the AP and the bottom of the net pot.

We all know roots will grow toward water. The thing is, the water/nutes that cascaded down into the lava rock quickly drained back to the rez, and apparently, the roots were getting sufficient moisture from the few inches of lava rocks that I put inside the net pot, and simply did not grow any bigger.

Imagine my surprise to see that this soft ball size mass of totally fluffy root hairs grew a ~ 125 gm wet (not counting roots) plant

Next grow I will fill the APs with lava rock, or I may try a new puffed clay type medium


View attachment 2732868View attachment 2732869View attachment 2732870View attachment 2732871View attachment 2732872
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I harvested the second plant.

77gms wet with leaves (all primaries were long gone), but I also took a few branches from it as well to pay back a friend. Still maybe 85 gms total.

Took pics, will post tomorrow with roots

Probably 2.7-3.0 ozs dry for both



IMG_1649.jpgIMG_1650.jpgIMG_1654.jpg
 

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PetFlora

Well-Known Member

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Very Nice M8. :clap:

I am finally getting going, man I had a helluva time getting going this round, but I am moving now....lol

Thanx for the update.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
If it was just me, it would last 9 -12mo. It's my chimney size friends, who are spoiled

I think I left a lot on the table due to the air gap between the bottom of the netpot lid and the lava rock in the Air Pot

Ultimately, I see myself retrofitting the Bad Boy, or just getting 2 x 4 bulb fixtures and retrofitting them for led tubes

Based on what I am seeing using 4 @ 20w led tubes, I am anxiously awaiting 40w+ cob led tubes
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Hey guys and gals

Just thought I would let you know I ordered a few things in prep for the next tent battle. This time both tents will use Hydro Halo 2.0, taking advantage from lessons learned from the first ever go-round using HH Drip Rings.

HH was not used from the start, and info on the net is scarce, so it took a while to develop a basic 'protocol'.

So this time there will be several important changes to be employed as soon as seedlings are big enough to transfer from a 35 lpm bubbler to amplify root development

At the end of HH 1.0, I wound up with a feeding cycle of 8 second 'on' with ~ 5 minute intervals. This is why the roots were so fluffy, ala hpa.

New pump 160 gph is ~ half the GPH (320) of the pump I used the first time. Since the rings are not about delivering a large liquid volume the smaller pump should easily do the job. A plus to pumping 1/2 the nutes per cycle, expecting to get by with < 5 g rez.

I will be using BrandX G13 X WW pollinated with Bubblegum male. Never grew this, so not sure what to expect volume-wise, but it should be awesome bud

I expect to add 2 more tubes to the led tent; I will get 2700s. The 3000Ks are producing lots of quality trics, but not seeing much calyx development. I'm guessing the 3000K does not provide sufficient 640-650nms that 2700K does

I have a source for 2400K A19 globes, which I will add during flower, unless someone has a 4ft tube by then
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I have made several small improvements with sig better results. See my last thread, but have made a few more since then as well
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member

I haven't kept up with this thread but here is today's update

Cold temps combined with raising the canopy ~ 6" closer to the ufos resulted in leaf mottling (looks like a nute def or lockout, but it's not). I cut most off prior to taking today's pics. They are very dry/brittle, but very sticky-lots of trics

LED pistils are beginning to turn, whereas the hot5s have not

I drained led bubbler, replaced with ~ 270ppm.

hot5

Over the last 2 weeks I have been chopping the lower buds, which are too far from the lights to develop. This means more energy/nutes going to where it matters most

I did not drain nutes, but diluted to < 400ppms

hot5

IMG_2063.jpgIMG_2064.jpgIMG_2065.jpg

LED

IMG_2066.jpgIMG_2067.jpg
 
Read the thread... Lots of good info, not sure about alot of stuff though. Below is a summary - thinking I'm about ready to give something similar a try.
Lights:

{Didn&#8217;t find much on lights that was clear enough got me to be use. I&#8217;m thinking of trying a less expensive LED grow light in the 400w range for volume, then for each plant adding a white 50 W light during veging, and then adding a soft white for flowering/fruiting (50-Watt White LED Retrofit Downlights, in white and soft-white variations in the Lowes store).}

Light Sequence:
{Not sure, 16/8 until start of flowering, tapering to 12/12 after eventually reaching 10/14.}

Nute Type:
&#8220;In my Cloning maching I have switched to Straight water with only Nut being Clone X
Switched from DM to a great dry product for both veg and BLOOM&#8221;
{Cannot find a reference to what the product is&#8230;}

Nute Sequence:
&#8220;A big part of the problem is ppms; most people use 2-3+ times more nutes than plants can use. High P plays a huge factor in CREATING rez toxicity

Bubbler / cloning: I drained led bubbler, replaced with ~ 270ppm.

VEG I start with ~ 200ppm, by 3rd week ~ 420. I initiate flower by increasing to 500+ ppm. When I see preflowers I begin to lower the light cycle times

FLOWER Where most drop light to 12/12*, I reduce by ~ 1 hour per week, simultaneously increasing ppm to ~ 600, increasing 100ppms weekly to ~800. The following week I jump to ~ 1000 (for one week) then begin backing down . I do check and adjust pH daily

* I only maintain 12/12 for 5-7 days then continue lowering to ~ 10/14&#8221;

Nut Solution Usage
&#8220;In early veg, I use ~ 2G per week for 4 plants. The amount depends on how big the root mass gets. I find with my system roots do not become humongous balls of twisted overcooked spaghetti.&#8221;

PH
{Keep very close to 6.0}

Supporting Medium
&#8220;the APs have lava rock on the bottom, with a top cap of river rock/ornamental stones, also, each AP has a grate on the bottom that drains quickly.
Lava rock is the key, as it stays damp + has lots of nooks and crannies that trap droplets of nutes between feedings. BINGO. Root hairs have a vg environment upon which to thrive&#8221;

Air Pots
&#8220;I experimented with one liter and 4 liter APs, I would say benefits of larger are negligible, but YMMV. Now that sai, 4 liter APs are more stable.&#8221;

Drip System
&#8220;Halo Drip Rings, which is an awesome product that hardly anyone knows about: the inside holes should be drilled on a 10-15* angle instead of straight down. The curve of the 6" ring does slightly spread the 3 rows of holes but not enough to properly cover the surface of my 6" net pots, especially the ~2" diameter nearest the main stalk/tap root. Using a larger than drip pressure pump, + raising the ring ~4" above the media, I am better able to wet the area closest to the tap root- the money spot, especially for young seedlings/clones. This helps facilitate lateral root development throughout the net pot. My next grow using HDRs should show the benefit of their oversight.&#8221;

Pump
&#8220;Prior to putting this system together I questioned how well my 320 gph pump would work with the drip rings- it works just fine, the adjustable o/o valves I placed in front of each ring are unnecessary, but good if taking a single plant out for any reason
New pump 160 gph is ~ half the GPH (320) of the pump I used the first time. Since the rings are not about delivering a large liquid volume the smaller pump should easily do the job.&#8221;

Feed Frequency Lights Off:
{cannot find a reference now}
Feed Frequency Lights On:
&#8220;Having a 10G rez (8 gal actual liquid) I can run the feed cycle longer. Upped it from ~ 20 sec > ~ 35 sec, meaning the roots are getting a nice long drink, plus the lava rock pockets are filling up.

Currently running the automated feed system 35 seconds/hour to a 320 gph pump ($20), not much wall juice used here either. Pretty sure I am saving significant $$$$ over the juice a proper sized UC pump slurps, operating what...24/7?

I have fed during late veg (well established roots and leafs) every ~ 1/2hr, but during flower I cut back to ~ 1x /4hrs

due to higher room heat, I decided to change feed cycle to 23 sec every 30 minutes. If I had a cycle timer that went lower, I would drop to ~ 10 seconds, but since I am using lava rock, it's not critical

responded extremely well to the new watering schedule- 10 sec/15 min during lights on

I changed the feed cycle this morning to 6 sec on (~one-half sec delay in my timer) and 10 minute pause

This morning I changed it again to 6 seconds on + 6 minutes off

I increased on time to 8 seconds.&#8221;

Reservoir
&#8220;mix ~ 4G, my rez holds 2G, the other 2G I keep next to the active rez, and replenish as needed. In early veg, I use ~ 2G per week for 4 plants. The amount depends on how big the root mass gets. I find with my system roots do not become humongous balls of twisted overcooked spaghetti.

expecting to get by with < 5 g rez.&#8221;

Reservoir Oxygenation
&#8220;Air stones in the rez only. It's a good idea to oxygenate the rez (you are doing it by constant flow/splash of returning nutes to your rez). Small 2 outlet aquarium pump (~$10), uses very little wall juice&#8221;

Reservoir Temperature
&#8220;Keep at 70F. unless rez temp is kept below 85*s you can hang out the welcome mat for root rot, worms... sick plants&#8221;
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member


This is an old thread, I have switched things up quite a bit.

see my newer threads for changes

Sorry, but having trouble finding your questions

If I missed any, can you highlight them?

Nute is www.hydroponic-research.com

Feed Freq at night is lower ... depends on room temps ... age of plants (root mass)

Light Schedule depends on strain- indica v sat. Sats can take forever to finish, and refer something ~ 12/12 for flowering, although 11:30/12:30 might speed things up late in flower. Indicas like ~ 12/12 to veg, and more sleep during mid-late flower ~ 10/14

Light LED lights have improved dramatically since I started that thread

Several growers are using this type. I recently ordered 2 of their "75" watt (actually more like 45w, but price is so right) to supplement during flower. They make a so-called 600w that is ~ 300w actual for only $412.62 + free shipping. That should blow up a 2 x4... 3 x 3... maybe even a 4 x 4 area

The tech is super simple. The things that could fail should be easily repaired/replaced by the end user

I am of the school that believes white light is very important to overall plant/bud development. Consider mixing some of their 2 cob (including high bay for white)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Shipping-600W-LED-Grow-Light-3W-LEDs-Flower-Veg-Integrated-COB-Lamp-Panel-/191034728466?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item2c7a8ea012
 
Mostly, I think I've just got to make one to see how it goes and see it. Do you have a suggestion for a thread as your latest and greatest? - I'll read it before I start.

I read your true HPA thread, was thinking about vertical 10" tubes 3 - 4 foot tall and lots of hardware, am so glad I read this before starting. It seems so much simpler and forgiving. I read another thread where a fellow using a tube system only misted once during the whole 'lights off' period, and seemed to think that was plenty. How long can you go with the rocks before the plant gets too dry?
This fellow claimed good grows, with pictures of roots mostly filling the tubes - and that looked also very simple - without the weight of the rocks, and a much shorter footprint. Your journals indicate those systems are a sure path to root rot and plant disease though. Maybe I'll make one of those and grow swiss chard or lettuce in it. Do you think anyone is actually successful with near horizontal 5 inch rails (there seems to be quite a few of them for sale - areoflow) or 6 inch pvc pipe?

It seems like the goal of HPA would be to have zero run off while keeping the roots properly whetted (might be able to do that if using an electrostatic differential between the mister and the plant). That would mean no 'washing' of residue off the roots though - and I wonder if a reason flood and drip grow methods produce so well might be because they wash 'junk' away, making everything around the roots fresh?

Also, there seems to be hints that you put the run-off into a separate reservoir, adjust its PH and PPM, and then add it to the main reservoir, at least through veg - is that right?
 
On the subject of lights- what do you think of putting lights under the canopy (shining up) once the plants start producing a bunch of shade?
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I will try to respond to both your posts"

I have used under canopy lights to good effect. Household A19 leds (non directional) on extenders will provide ample lighting

Bulb Extenders (1).jpgIMG_1374.jpg

Tubes are not a good choice horizontally or vertically, as mj roots grow much bigger & longer than veggies. And we're not growing roots, we're growing plants

I let runoff return to rez. Not an issue throughout veg to mid flower, after which ppm + pH should be checked DAILY, and adjusted as needed

Flushing is good several times during flower, but thanks to the efficiency of hydro, ppms no more than 2 EC (1000ppm), most o which quickly passes by and is returned to the rez

Currently flushing to finish. ppms doubling daily, so draining half, refilling with ~ 20ppm water. Working down to ~ < 100ppm

Plants grow at night, so make sure you raise lights to compensate. I would feed at least 3 times during veg, & 4 times during flower. This only because the rocks will not trap much moisture, which otherwise would lead to root rot

Rocks provide anchor for roots and weight to stabilize the plant

Pic of cube in action. Basically a stackable scrog net without the netting

IMG_2065.jpg


On the subject of lights- what do you think of putting lights under the canopy (shining up) once the plants start producing a bunch of shade?
 
Thanks again. The pics are great.
How much light is enough? I'm thinking 9 plants in a rectangle (3 rows of 3).
I keep thinking - I go out and spend $600 to $1000 on grow lights. There's a few hundred leds in there, a few are sure to die over a year. Once an led dies, I've got to find a source for a replacement, and it looks like get out the soldering iron to fix (not likely I'm going to want to take the light down and send it back in the middle of growing).
OR
I go get 8 Cree 75W Equivalent Daylight (5000K) A19 Dimmable LED Light Bulbs and 8 Cree 75W Equivalent Soft White (2700K) A19 Dimmable LED Light Bulbs, and shine them down from a reflective, vertically mobile ceiling. Now when one goes bad, no big deal, they will always be available at the local hardware store, quick and easy. And, if I happen to have the receipt still - 10 year Cree warranty.
That's 16 lites at about $20 each for a total of $320 + another $100 for fixtures, switches and wiring - cheap for grow lighting. I can put switches and dimmers on them to control them in every way. The whole "fixture" is easy to assemble. That's 216 watts, and 17,600 lumens. BUT - is it enough light, and is the spectrum effective?
Do you think it works? Does it work with 2 or 3 times as many lights (the fixture starts getting pretty heavy)?
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
3 rows of three has of wind up with > 4 x 4 foot print, unless you are sogging

I would get max of 4 plants in a 4 x 4= ~ 2 @ ~300 actual watt leds http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-650W-hydroponics-led-grow-greenhouse-kits-with-lights/114449_1483155345.html




Thanks again. The pics are great.
How much light is enough? I'm thinking 9 plants in a rectangle (3 rows of 3).
I keep thinking - I go out and spend $600 to $1000 on grow lights. There's a few hundred leds in there, a few are sure to die over a year. Once an led dies, I've got to find a source for a replacement, and it looks like get out the soldering iron to fix (not likely I'm going to want to take the light down and send it back in the middle of growing).
OR
I go get 8 Cree 75W Equivalent Daylight (5000K) A19 Dimmable LED Light Bulbs and 8 Cree 75W Equivalent Soft White (2700K) A19 Dimmable LED Light Bulbs, and shine them down from a reflective, vertically mobile ceiling. Now when one goes bad, no big deal, they will always be available at the local hardware store, quick and easy. And, if I happen to have the receipt still - 10 year Cree warranty.
That's 16 lites at about $20 each for a total of $320 + another $100 for fixtures, switches and wiring - cheap for grow lighting. I can put switches and dimmers on them to control them in every way. The whole "fixture" is easy to assemble. That's 216 watts, and 17,600 lumens. BUT - is it enough light, and is the spectrum effective?
Do you think it works? Does it work with 2 or 3 times as many lights (the fixture starts getting pretty heavy)?
 
Whilst reviewing the pics in this thread, I see that you keep the air pots inside buckets or totes. Do you think it best to keep them in a somewhat sealed area, or to have them open to air circulation in the room?
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Kind of confusing, I know.

No, I use APs open air


Whilst reviewing the pics in this thread, I see that you keep the air pots inside buckets or totes. Do you think it best to keep them in a somewhat sealed area, or to have them open to air circulation in the room?
 
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