C.Indica
Well-Known Member
Beautiful avatar.
Sorry to hear about the funk down there, but I know you've been in this mode many many times before.
20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction
- Thread starter collective gardener
- Start date
Sorry to hear about the funk down there, but I know you've been in this mode many many times before.
Bird Gymnastics
New Member
I agree with kitty. Stay safe out there man. It would be a shame if they too shut down something as beautiful as your garden. When you get a chance check out my stuff. I have a kushberry x blue dream that is created solely by my buddy and I. ( we were lucky enough to get some killer seeds from a guy in San Jose. I'm in az now) anyways with those seeds we got one super male. Been perfecting it these last couple crops but i must say it's some of the tastiest medicine me or any of my patients out here have EVER tried. Hope everything stays good in Cali. Much love and happy growing 
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
See answers above. This is extremely risky from a legal standpoint. If you were ever interested in trying LED's or induction lighting, this would be the ideal settup.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Back in the day we didn't really worry about plant counts. Most of my crowd had over 100 plants. so all the way up to 1000 plants it was the same 5 yr minimum for a bust. I used to grow around 900 plants, figuring that I may as well risk 5 years growing some real weight, rather than getting 5 for just having 101 plants...50 of em clones.
Today, we have they new rules. I actually like the new challange. I was getting kind of bored with the same old SOG growing style. Don't get me wrong...NOTHING is as efficient as 4+ 18" plants per sq ft. I would usually remove all branching and grow a sea of "donkey dicks". The only bummer was we didn't have 600 watt lights and huge reflectors back then, which is the perfect settup for that canopy. 400's were too small, and 1000's were kind of overkill, and produced hot spots with the old style reflectors. At one point I was running 4 Sun Circle light movers with 2 HPS's and 1 MH on each Circle. Each mover would light a 10' diameter round tray. We were getting 10 pounds per tray...all NL#5, which was going for 4K fucking wholesale!!! Needless to say, life was good.
I like the new style we've been "forced" to adopt to keep the plant count down. Mellow Kitty's BAYVERB settup with T-5 overhead lighting is really cool. I have a feeling they're going to get that thing dialed in and kick some real weight with just 35 plants. We're good to 250 plants, but I'm trying to see what we can do with just 3 8x8 trays with 36 plants per tray. 36" multiple branch plants well pruned seem to work pretty good. It's no where near the old school SOG yields, but getting better with each crop. The latest crop will be fitted with tomato cages on each plant. The idea being to secure the branches with just enough room between them that the leaves don't touch, and to position the branches as vertical as possible. With this settup, I'm hoping to increase the number of plants on each tray to 50, without much reduction in yield from each plant. We're also removing more of the secondary branches. The 4-6 main branches are the real money makers. This should also help out with trimming ease.
The point is, I actually like having to adapt to new rules. It keeps it interesting. I also enjoy seeing what other people are doing to get more from less plants. I've seen some cool SCROG settups training just 5 or 6 huge plants into an 8x8 canopy that looks like an old school SOG canopy. The downside is that the plants must stay in the same location through a long ass veg and the bloom. Several individual rooms would be the ticket there. Let's post up some links of folks kicking some big yields with just a few plants. Mellow Kitty, I expect to see your shit on here ASAP.
Today, we have they new rules. I actually like the new challange. I was getting kind of bored with the same old SOG growing style. Don't get me wrong...NOTHING is as efficient as 4+ 18" plants per sq ft. I would usually remove all branching and grow a sea of "donkey dicks". The only bummer was we didn't have 600 watt lights and huge reflectors back then, which is the perfect settup for that canopy. 400's were too small, and 1000's were kind of overkill, and produced hot spots with the old style reflectors. At one point I was running 4 Sun Circle light movers with 2 HPS's and 1 MH on each Circle. Each mover would light a 10' diameter round tray. We were getting 10 pounds per tray...all NL#5, which was going for 4K fucking wholesale!!! Needless to say, life was good.
I like the new style we've been "forced" to adopt to keep the plant count down. Mellow Kitty's BAYVERB settup with T-5 overhead lighting is really cool. I have a feeling they're going to get that thing dialed in and kick some real weight with just 35 plants. We're good to 250 plants, but I'm trying to see what we can do with just 3 8x8 trays with 36 plants per tray. 36" multiple branch plants well pruned seem to work pretty good. It's no where near the old school SOG yields, but getting better with each crop. The latest crop will be fitted with tomato cages on each plant. The idea being to secure the branches with just enough room between them that the leaves don't touch, and to position the branches as vertical as possible. With this settup, I'm hoping to increase the number of plants on each tray to 50, without much reduction in yield from each plant. We're also removing more of the secondary branches. The 4-6 main branches are the real money makers. This should also help out with trimming ease.
The point is, I actually like having to adapt to new rules. It keeps it interesting. I also enjoy seeing what other people are doing to get more from less plants. I've seen some cool SCROG settups training just 5 or 6 huge plants into an 8x8 canopy that looks like an old school SOG canopy. The downside is that the plants must stay in the same location through a long ass veg and the bloom. Several individual rooms would be the ticket there. Let's post up some links of folks kicking some big yields with just a few plants. Mellow Kitty, I expect to see your shit on here ASAP.
mellokitty
Moderatrix of Journals
oh cg, you flatterer you.
baverb tree grows have been fairly common here since before mmj; the most wattage i've ever seen in one place (would've eaten both our rooms for brekkie and then asked for seconds) was dialled in to service less than 200 plants. baverbs are pretty well de rigeur around here.... as of right now i know less people who use hoods/air-cooled/wings/etc than baverbers.
this is our first room supplementing the baverbs with t5's.... i really want to start experimenting with different spectrums of t5 tubes.
some video of the room itself:
[video=youtube;5W9csxh0y2w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W9csxh0y2w&feature=mh_lolz&list=HL1318171827[/video]
baverb tree grows have been fairly common here since before mmj; the most wattage i've ever seen in one place (would've eaten both our rooms for brekkie and then asked for seconds) was dialled in to service less than 200 plants. baverbs are pretty well de rigeur around here.... as of right now i know less people who use hoods/air-cooled/wings/etc than baverbers.
this is our first room supplementing the baverbs with t5's.... i really want to start experimenting with different spectrums of t5 tubes.
some video of the room itself:
[video=youtube;5W9csxh0y2w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W9csxh0y2w&feature=mh_lolz&list=HL1318171827[/video]
mastiffkush
Well-Known Member
Kitty, that looks awesome!! Question though, did you use a proxy service when you created your youtube and posted those videos?
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
I would hope we all are. Kitty, I really wouldn't answer that if I were you. Gives away too much info either way.
-concerned friend.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
Cana-duh has no reason to inflame it residents by fucking with med grows... Too many people really blowing it up up there... Think bout it cheap electric cold weather... I saw a football field size indoor divided in ten rooms. No baverb or mention of legality up there what blew my mind in the winter it's so dry they used swamp coolers in veg rooms and air cyclers from furnaces to cool flower rooms very little ac use cept in summer
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
CG-
Are you accurately measuring VPD?
Your humidity could be "all good" as far as growing books will tell you... But measuring RH is really not the best way to check the moisture situation in your grow.
The VPD is the thing to measure because it dictates when leaves are covered in a ...what did they call it...... moisture film or something along those lines... When there is this moisture film on the leaves, the mold is invited. This can happen when your AIR RH is 55 or lower...
Gotta run... just wanted to mention that before I forgot.
TO
Are you accurately measuring VPD?
Your humidity could be "all good" as far as growing books will tell you... But measuring RH is really not the best way to check the moisture situation in your grow.
The VPD is the thing to measure because it dictates when leaves are covered in a ...what did they call it...... moisture film or something along those lines... When there is this moisture film on the leaves, the mold is invited. This can happen when your AIR RH is 55 or lower...
Gotta run... just wanted to mention that before I forgot.
TO
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
VPD? Sounds like something you get from a hooker. I've always used RH with no problems. I keep the veg around 50-60% and the bloom right around 55%. Haven't had a speck of PM in 6 months. Thank god for Spectracide. One good spray 1 week into bloom is all it takes. I'm kind of confused as to why you're worried about my RH.
TheLastWood
Well-Known Member
Its somethin about air pressure. And the right temperature to humidity for keeping the stomata open.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
Ahh, you mentioned the powdery mildew being a problem in your area even when RH is below 55%...
PM can thrive in RH as low as 30%. Botrytis needs more humidity to be able to sporulate on your leaves, but Powdery Mildew contains enough moisture in its spores to germinate and then is able to use moisture from the leaves to grow on plants..
Anyway, I should be more concerned with my own VPD than any one else's...
davidgrimm
Active Member
Collective Gardner
Hi there
Hope every thing is going good with you and yours. I had a quick question about the nutes you are using if you can spare the time please.
You were using Cutting Edge and then switched, a couple of months ago, to another for a test. Did you decide to make the switch permanent (and if so, what did you switch to?) or did you go back to CE? I use CE also and was wondering if you found another was better.
Thanks for replying.
Live long and thrive please to you and all those you hold dear.
David Grimm
Hi there
Hope every thing is going good with you and yours. I had a quick question about the nutes you are using if you can spare the time please.
You were using Cutting Edge and then switched, a couple of months ago, to another for a test. Did you decide to make the switch permanent (and if so, what did you switch to?) or did you go back to CE? I use CE also and was wondering if you found another was better.
Thanks for replying.
Live long and thrive please to you and all those you hold dear.
David Grimm
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
I've been avoiding this topic like the plague. A couple months ago I decided to try Advanced Nutrients. My local Hydro store gave me a buttload of the stuff to try out. Now, let me be clear, I am not a fan of that company. I think alot of what they say is BS, my good friend MellowKitty has friends who have been totally fucked over by them, and with the amount of money they spend on marketing it's hard to believe there's any left over for quality nutrients. That being said, the stuff gave me the best crop BY FAR that I've got from this grow op.
The plants were vegged using Cutting Edge. In bloom I started out with CONNOISSEUR as a base nute. I only had a 2 liter kit, so I switched to Sensi Bloom as a base about 3 weeks into bloom. The Connoisseur just seemed too expensive. For additives, I used Big Bud, Mothers Earth Bloom Tea, and Overdrive...all from AN. I also used Cutting Edge Mag Amp, Hydro International Roots and Final. The Big Bud is basically a bunch of potasium. When I run out I'll change to Kushi Kush because it is double the strength for a couple bucks more. The Overdrive is used at the end of the bloom. I used the Mag Amp because AN is heavy on K, and whenever you're running that much K, you run the risk of mag problems. Mag Amp is magnesium sulfate, with 1% magnesium. AN's magnesium sulfate products (Bud FactorX, Bud Candy) contain only .5% mag, and cost 3 times more than Mag Amp. Hydro International Yellow Bottle additives are very effective. I know there's a bunch of hoemones and shit many people don't like, but it works. The Roots is great for root developement. The Final is very strong. It is used a week or 2 before the flush, and just blows up the buds big time. I threw in the Mother's Earth Tea because the vast variety of organic ingredients. I thought it would be nice to toss my plants some organic food for a change.
The first thing I noticed as the plants got into bloom was the tighter node spacing. I mean ALOT tighter. I don't want to say twice as tight...but damn close. Then, as the bloom continued, the bud size was pretty bad ass. I'd say 25% bigger than with CE. The quality was great...about the same as CE...but we're growing a fantastic strain that you'd have to really fuck up to get bad quality. I'm still trimming and drying this batch, so I don't have the final yield numbers in yet. It looks like it will be at least a 30% increase over CE, though. I did get some necrosis on the leaf tips and margins, but it didn't effect the final product. I think I have that worked out on this next run.
The second run is just a week into bloom. No connoiser this time. It's Sensi Bloom from the start. I hope it wasn't the Connoiser that gave me the tight node spacing. If it was, my yield will suffer this run. I will say this...if it was the Connoiser that tightened up the node spacing, I'd have no problem paying the money to get that performance everytime. I also added the B-52 on this run. A friend said it made a big difference on his quality. The real challange with AN will be figuring out which additives really make a difference, and which are just snake oil. I believe that there's probably 2-3 additives that make 90% of the difference. I'll just keep adding them and removing them until I figure out which ones are the real money makers. There's no fucking way I'm going to use the 12 or so additives that AN would recommend to a be a Grand Masturbator Grower.
To sum it up, I'm done with CE. My buddy Commercial J (40,000 watt grow op) saw my crop and he's changing too. I believe that just Sensi Bloom would do better that Cutting Edge 3 part with the 3 additives. I loved CE, but the AN just gives far better results.
davidgrimm
Active Member
THANKS so much for the prompt and VERY detailed reply. Your experience with CE and changes to different nutes will save me much time experimenting. I currently use CE but the only additive that I use is Bloombastic (which is like $700 for their largest bottle). I get decent but not great results so no point in me teaching my veg or bloom methods but my cloning is outstanding, simple enough for a simpleton like me and so easy to do it shouldn't even be classified as work.
Basically I clone with an EZ Cloner 60 site machine. I made 1 modification to the machine, I took out its air system and just put in a 2 stone air pump (Before I did this results were shitty) . I made this modification about 18 months ago. I overload it (90 cuttings), use municipal tap water and KLN as directed by its label. Plug the machine in (under a little POS flourescent light), wait 6-7 days and Presto at least 87-90 GREAT clones with lots of nice, white, large roots. Very "Set it and Forget it!" Roncoish. If you ever decide to look for a cloning alternative, I can recommend this method without reservation. I am gonna clone again in a couple of days so will take pictures then and again a week later. Then I'll post them here if thats OK. Let me know if thats not OK. I really don't know the accepted etiquette.
Once again, thanks for your quick and detailed reply. Hope everything goes great for you and yours.
David Grimm (nom de plume, BTW)
Basically I clone with an EZ Cloner 60 site machine. I made 1 modification to the machine, I took out its air system and just put in a 2 stone air pump (Before I did this results were shitty) . I made this modification about 18 months ago. I overload it (90 cuttings), use municipal tap water and KLN as directed by its label. Plug the machine in (under a little POS flourescent light), wait 6-7 days and Presto at least 87-90 GREAT clones with lots of nice, white, large roots. Very "Set it and Forget it!" Roncoish. If you ever decide to look for a cloning alternative, I can recommend this method without reservation. I am gonna clone again in a couple of days so will take pictures then and again a week later. Then I'll post them here if thats OK. Let me know if thats not OK. I really don't know the accepted etiquette.
Once again, thanks for your quick and detailed reply. Hope everything goes great for you and yours.
David Grimm (nom de plume, BTW)
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Looks like you descovered what I did, base line and a few sups, for me I've been down this road your going to take cg,
If it wasn't for the cost it would be a bit fun. So to break it down b52/big bud/overdive are the only ones I ended up liking!
Bud I'm understanding kushy Kush is the same thing as big bud but stronger? I'm going to do a run with my orange kush
Il run just connosuor, kushie kush,b52,overdrive and yellow bottle final and see what happens
It will be 20 under x6 600 hps lummateck ultra PAR bulbs in a 10x14
If it wasn't for the cost it would be a bit fun. So to break it down b52/big bud/overdive are the only ones I ended up liking!
Bud I'm understanding kushy Kush is the same thing as big bud but stronger? I'm going to do a run with my orange kush
Il run just connosuor, kushie kush,b52,overdrive and yellow bottle final and see what happens
It will be 20 under x6 600 hps lummateck ultra PAR bulbs in a 10x14
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Post whatever pics u like.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
As another AN hater originally, I can say this, you will LOVE Liquid Carboload. Best carbohydrate product I have ever used.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
I've always felt that if you're not growing live soil organic, there's no need for carbs to feed a microherd that isn't there. This is the same reason I wouldn't use AN's Pirahna, Tarantula, and any other bio's in the line. I have tried to mix chem nutes with myco's, fungi, and bacterias (along with carbs to feed them all) with zero improvements. But, when growing live soil organic, these additives are the life blood of the medium. I think that these additives should be classified in AN's Organic line. I also question AN's repetition of magnesium sulfate in Bud Candy and Bud Factor X (and I think one more). Maybe there's more to these than the mag sulfate listed, but they really should say so. Instead of paying $92 for a liter of Bud Factor X (with just ,5% mag), I went with my old standby Cutting Edge Mag Amp with 1% mag at $25/liter.
I am very pleased with the results from the AN nutes I used. I still am very conservative over what $$$ I will spend on additives. I can't help but feeling that there's a big hard dick aimed right at my ass, just waiting for me to slip up and take the monetary ass rape of a lifetime. For the time being, I'm sticking with Sensi Bloom (maybe back to Connoiser), Big Bud, B-52, and Overdrive. These are what gave me the killer results on the harvest being trimmed right now. The only unknown is how much the Connoiser helped. I used it for the first 3 weeks of bloom till I ran out...then switched to Sensi Bloom. If it was the Connoiseur that gave me the node spacing, I'd have no problem paying up for that in the future. The increase in yield just from the tighter nodes added up to several thousand dollars.