GOD HERE
Well-Known Member
It's just gotten so old. The exception is Keynes, since he molests kids.
The truth about minimum wage and income inequality
- Thread starter Rancho Cucamonga
- Start date
GOD HERE
Well-Known Member
I think Chomgoo.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so, what we should do is print up more and more fiate currency, becase it's value will be whatever the government says it will be... and thats worked how many times in the past? hmmm... ZERO.
when you start shaving your coins, reducing their weight or debasing them to makemore coins from less silver, people stop using your coins, thats why the US despitre being primarily british in character adopted the spanish milled dollar (the piece of 8 ) as their default currency, and created their currency based on that model, rather than the bedased british currencies and fiat money used by most of europe.
good money drives bad money out of the market, and even with legal tender laws, when the cnadian Looney starts beating the dollar, the us dollar will fall.
big colourful crayola letters and shitty videos of economics weenies doing math doesnt prove shit. economies work the same whether big or small, and fiat money has never lasted longer than the confidence in the issuing authority, but a spanish milled dollar is still worth 1 ounce of silver, and 1 ounce of silver still buys roughly the same amount of shit it did in 1800, or 1700, or 1100, or 200 BC.
all your arguments are just farts in a sandstorm. specie currencies last, fiat currencies fail.
also, your video proves nothing, since economics is not a science, its a bundle of comforting lies, wrapped in statistical bullshit. if that weenie's math was so powerful and predictive of economic realities, why does the economy teeter on the brink? surely youre not the only acolyte to see his wisdom.
further, the video and it's math makes no sense to me because it is founded on faulty logic. if you think that bullshit makes sense then theres no hope for you.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
"liberty" and "socialism" are fundamentally incompatible. only an idiot thinks submission to the state, and freedom come in the same package.
but then you havent read marx, and get all your information about "conservatism" from the pithy image macros and political cartoons you see on "funnyjunk"
youre still just clownshoes.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Yeah!
Liberty is actually property.
wait...
Liberty is actually property.
wait...
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
This section would be deader than J. Christopher Stevens...
Credit default swaps and other schemes?
You pretty much confirmed that you don't understand how the crash happened.
a CDS isn't a scheme anymore than a interest swap is.
The problem stems from banks knowing they are TBTF and will be bailed out if they make bad bets. This fueled the speculative market and when combined with low interest rates set by the fed all conglomerated to put bad money into securitized crap, the underwriters of which knew those contracts were absolute SHIT and knew they would crash, so the banks took out insurance (CDS) on other peoples houses (the mortgage securities), knowing that a team of arsonists (defaults) was coming.
This all could have been averted had we listened to Brooksly Born, instead the Clinton Administration castigated her and fired her so that they could blow this bubble and make a lot of money on the backs of us little people who were ultimately the ones taking out the loans and buying the houses.
Although the President gets to choose maybe one board member, his choices are limited to only 12 people. Those 12 people are wholly 100% chosen by the banks. In essence, the politicians only confirm the choices that the banks already made for them. i.e. there is no choice, the banks are the ones making the choices, the politicians just get to pick which choice already made for them they like best.
Its kind of like the original Ford Model T, you could have any color choice you wanted, as long as it was black.
So the congress can have any person they want on the board, as long as its a candidate the bankers already selected.
That isn't choice and it isn't free.
Sorry, but Government is TOTALLY constrained by revenue, if it weren't then there would be no need for taxation.
Government MUST tax if it continues to sell treasuries. Without taxation there would be massive hyperinflation and a collapse of government. They certainly do not want to lose all their power, so they will continue to be self constrained.
The Fed cannot let the government run around unconstrained, the power to create money is theirs, not some government out of control.
The power base begins with those who have the power to create fiat dollars. Government does not have that power.
GOD HERE
Well-Known Member
Such an angry guy. I'm guessing you're not going out in the van today.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Peace and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
I think everything you have ever fucking heard is a bundle of comforting lies, wrapped in statistical bullshit.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
bullshit. peace and capitalism are quite compatible. you would know this is you ever actually learned anything not prepared by leftist propagandists and velvet mouthed fools like chomsky
nah, just the parts from Marx. you havent read marx so you wouldnt understand.
heckler73
Well-Known Member
That is NOT what is being implied here. The issue I am trying to get across to you is that a Nation which issues its OWN CURRENCY, is not revenue constrained.
I am not stating that Monetary Policy is a CURE. It is a general flow mechanism, with influence on investment practices.
FISCAL POLICY is what needs to be addressed in depressed times.
But nescient dopes in politics that believe in a similar, anachronistic paradigm as yourself, are preventing this tool from being used properly.
Excuse me, shall we start talking about the middle-ages' Venetian money exchanges and Gresham's Law...
This is the 21st century. I've read Zarlenga's Science of Money; I am familiar with the history of coin debasement.
Besides, if good money drives out bad then why is gold taking the beating it's received as of late? I guess there is something BETTER?
Bitcoins perhaps?
(If you're still wondering, it's because you recited Gresham's Law backwards: Bad Money drives out Good...maybe you're just
)It wasn't trying to prove shit.
It was to show your view of Macroeconomics is WRONG!
Have you ever heard the phrase fallacy of composition?
You are making that mistake right there.
Because there are incognizant individuals--who share your faulty paradigm--in charge of your money.
And what is that faulty logic? It is founded in the very same logic that gives rise to your sentiments!
Why do think it was called Government Budget Constraint?
But Prof. Thoma's insight of that funny little limiting factor called TIME is what differentiates its application to reality.
However, perhaps I need to use a different tactic in explaining this. How about Warren Mosler's "layman's version" of the system, which also addresses the "purpose of taxation" question.
[video=youtube;AfnwFZfdDvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnwFZfdDvw[/video]
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
in a market, good money drives bad money out. only in the fevered dreams of economists will paper currency hold value while gold and silver are forced aside.That is NOT what is being implied here. The issue I am trying to get across to you is that a Nation which issues its OWN CURRENCY, is not revenue constrained.
I am not stating that Monetary Policy is a CURE. It is a general flow mechanism, with influence on investment practices.
FISCAL POLICY is what needs to be addressed in depressed times.
But nescient dopes in politics that believe in a similar, anachronistic paradigm as yourself, are preventing this tool from being used properly.
Excuse me, shall we start talking about the middle-ages' Venetian money exchanges and Gresham's Law...
This is the 21st century. I've read Zarlenga's Science of Money; I am familiar with the history of coin debasement.
Besides, if good money drives out bad then why is gold taking the beating it's received as of late? I guess there is something BETTER?
Bitcoins perhaps?
(If you're still wondering, it's because you recited Gresham's Law backwards: Bad Money drives out Good...maybe you're just
It wasn't trying to prove shit.
It was to show your view of Macroeconomics is WRONG!
Have you ever heard the phrase fallacy of composition?
You are making that mistake right there.
Because there are incognizant individuals--who share your faulty paradigm--in charge of your money.
And what is that faulty logic? It is founded in the very same logic that gives rise to your sentiments!
Why do think it was called Government Budget Constraint?
But Prof. Thoma's insight of that funny little limiting factor called TIME is what differentiates its application to reality.
However, perhaps I need to use a different tactic in explaining this. How about Warren Mosler's "layman's version" of the system, which also addresses the "purpose of taxation" question.
you predicate your assumption on the idea that legal tender laws mean shit in a market.
if somebody wants to buy my shit with gold, they get preference over anyone offering dollars, and those cats get preference over those offering pesos. bad money is not as highly valued, and this is why from an economics perspective youre right, bad money drives out good money, but in reality, when your money is so bad it becomes shaky (like the US dollar) then other currencies which are not showing signs of collapse are preferred.
claiming that im ass backwards doesnt mean shit. if somebody offers me 3 ounces of gold or $3000 cash ill take the gold thank you. only the legal tender laws and the government's power to shut you down makes the us dollar worth a squirt of piss these days. claiming your economist mantra is true and im a heretic doesnt convince anyone, and us doollars are moving towards zimbabwe currency status. everyone who actuially has to buy shit knows it, while the economics weenies keep claiming theres no inflation at all.
fiat currencies have NO VALUE save the confidence of the market in the issuer's stability. the federal reserve has very little confidence left to offer, and their stability was always an illusion.
a nation that issues it's own currency and believes that it is not constrained by revenue is a nation that will be wading through piles of worthless currency, and an inability to get credit to pay for the printing of more worthless currency.
trying to show off how effectively you memorized the key points of your economics textbook does not change the basic nature of the world.
any object, whether its a manufactured product, food, art, currency or metals is valued based on it's utility, desirability and scarcity. the US dollar is losing it's utility and desirability by eliminating it's scarcity. congress can pass all the laws it likes, and econoimists can claim that "the laws of economics state that..." till they are blue in the face. when the people stop trusting the currency, the currency dies.
your stupid videos dont prove shit except you can get a guy in a suit to say stupid shit.
100 years of the same old stuffed shirts making the same old tired assertions doesnt work any more. debt and fiscal irresponsibility is killing this nation's economy, and more of the same will just keep moving forward with the same old plan.
if you think the US is better off now than it was before the federal reserve then your not down here with the working stiffs, and most of the people you think are on the same page with you are just terrified of what will replace the fed,, so they stick with the devil they know. youre deluded. it doesnt matter how much money oure dealing with or how "sovereign" you think you are, even nations have to have the trust and confidence of other nations and the people or their currecny wont be worth shit outside the government run stores. and paying your taxes.
example: the Ruble in the soviet union.
any foreign currency was preferred, and the ruble was only useful in "official" transactions with the state.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Funny that he would be committing the "unecological fallacy" in an argument about economics. Quite ironic actually.
Gresham's theory says that "When a government overvalues one type of money and undervalues another, the undervalued money will leave the country or disappear from circulation into hoards, while the overvalued money will flood into circulation."
The simplified meaning bad drives out good, is too simple to understand the mechanism behind it.
Which money is currently overvalued?
The US Dollar of course.
which money is being horded?
GOLD of course!
FYI the nation of the USA Does NOT issue its own currency. If it did, the dollar would say "United States Note" on it, but they say Federal Reserve Note on them.
Just to clarify, keep having a great day.
The simplified meaning bad drives out good, is too simple to understand the mechanism behind it.
Which money is currently overvalued?
The US Dollar of course.
which money is being horded?
GOLD of course!
http://www.examiner.com/article/record-gold-sale-at-the-u-s-mint-despite-central-bank-dumping-of-paper
FYI the nation of the USA Does NOT issue its own currency. If it did, the dollar would say "United States Note" on it, but they say Federal Reserve Note on them.
Just to clarify, keep having a great day.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
Nuhh Uhh!!
the federal reserve is a government agency. i know it's true because an economics weenie told me so.
i remember treasury notes and gold and silver certificates too. silver certificates are still worth face value, and can be redeemed for face value in silver. so you need ~$23.30 to get an ounce of silver for it. and that $23.30 buys almost exactly as much bread, milk, cheese or wine now as the ounce of silver bought in the 1960's or the 1860's or 260BC.
but theres no inflation, and specie currencies are doomed to fail because they are not "elastic", and ill use all sorts of statistical mumbo jumbo and magical thinking to "prove" it to you. but rtemember if you throw up your hands and walk away 2 hours into my 8 hour lecture on why paper money is best, then i win!
heckler73
Well-Known Member
And what kind of suit are you wearing? I'm certainly coaxing a plethora of stupid shit from your end...
And speaking of the Ruble, what's its value currently?
Since 1998, it's been fairly stable (as far as ForEx goes).
I guess that problem in the 90s failed to erase the Ruble off the map?
I must admit, you are pretty good at putting the cart before the horse...
Please, tell me more about how the fall of Communism, and the post-collapse market reforms have anything to do with what we are discussing.
And why not bring up Weimar, the Turkish Pengo, and Zimbabwe while you're at it...
If you were a fish-monger, I imagine there would be nothing for sale except red herring.
If your avatar doesn't make a mockery of Aristotle enough, your attempts at logical cohesion certainly finish the job.
Yo mama's so fat... homie.
